Clearances, please

[Captain Jack]

One thing that emerged from today's game was our lack of knowledge, placement and skill around the stoppages. Maybe it was partly due to the absence of Moloney (and Davey after half time), but our younger mids got absolutely torn to shreds by the likes of Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell and Burgoyne.

I can remember at least two goals being conceded due to poor positioning (Buddy in the 1st, Hodge in the last), and on multiple occasions the ball was whisked from a contest in our 50 before our forwards had realised what was going on, let alone apply any pressure.

Obviously this is to be expected given the age and experience of Scully, Trengove, McKenzie et al, but our set-ups need a heap of work over pre-season. Along with our decision making/delivery when going inside 50, it is the most glaring weakness in our team.

I hope they learnt a good lesson from the Hawks today, because as soon as they can get anywhere near that efficiency, we'll be a serious force.

Thoughts?

P.S. Frawley is a star.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Re: Clearances, please.

I thought we got smashed in the middle today also. I'm not sure what the clearance stats were, or the hitouts for that matter but watching at the game it looked like Hawthorn got the ball out from the centre to advantage a lot more than us. The clearances we did get were just rushed snaps forward. You don't see Jamar hitting the ball forward and us getting clean clearances very often.

 

[d33my]

Re: Clearances, please.

I think we really missed Moloney today. Every time there was a stoppage I was scared

 

[Captain Jack]

Re: Clearances, please.

The raw clearance numbers were 51-41 against us, which isn't that bad... but what I noticed all day was how effective theirs were compared to ours. Often they got clean possession, and were able to go for a run before giving it off, whereas we would more often just get it on the boot and get it forward however we could. This needs work, and I would suggest that going forward, the likes of Sylvia, Trengove, Scully, Grimes and Gysberts will be able to emulate the Hawks' style better than Jones, Moloney and McDonald are ATM.

 

[cannons]

Re: Clearances, please.

Sylvia dominated the clearances in the 2nd, but aside from that, I thought we struggled in this area.

To be honest, though, that's what I was expecting, given that the Hawks possess not only more experienced footballers in the midfield than we do, but also footballers with harder, more mature bodies.

 

[melbournemartin]

Re: Clearances, please.

I'd like to see the centre clearance stats. I thought we got smashed too. Sylvia was the only one who looked competent. It didn't help having Bruce in there who is a good stopper but not good at the clearances.

 

[Pipefitter]

Re: Clearances, please.

"but our younger mids got absolutely torn to shreds by the likes of Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell and Burgoyne."

The answer lies there. All topline premiership players on song against kids. You cant really expect more.

 

[LITTLE STINGA]

Re: Clearances, please.

I think we really missed Moloney today. Every time there was a stoppage I was scared

I totally agree. I think today showed that our depth is becoming very good we still need our best players playing week in week out if we are going to be better than a middle of the road team.

 

[Captain Jack]

Re: Clearances, please.

The answer lies there. All topline premiership players on song against kids. You cant really expect more.

Of course, it was to be expected... my point was more that today showed how much of a gap there is between us and the best in this area, and that it needs much work over the pre-season.

Burgoyne in particular - I rate him so highly now that I actually get to see him play at times. Genuine class player, so smooth.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Re: Clearances, please.

IMO they need to work on a more agressive set-up in the middle. Typically Jamar just drops it sideways or behind him and then the ball gets flipped backwards to someone either standing still or running sideways. The clearances that really hurt you are when the ball gets hit to advantage, someone is running on to it and either kicks a goal or hits up a leading forward. That's premiership football. Given that Jamar has dominated in the ruck this year it would be nice to see that play occasionally, let Col come storming through a la G Ablett.

 

[Captain Jack]

Re: Clearances, please.

IMO they need to work on a more agressive set-up in the middle. Typically Jamar just drops it sideways or behind him and then the ball gets flipped backwards to someone either standing still or running sideways. The clearances that really hurt you are when the ball gets hit to advantage, someone is running on to it and either kicks a goal or hits up a leading forward. That's premiership football. Given that Jamar has dominated in the ruck this year it would be nice to see that play occasionally, let Col come storming through a la G Ablett.

Good point. I personally would jizz everywhere if I saw Jamar punch it forward to Sylvia's advantage --> running goal from 50.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Re: Clearances, please.

Of course, it was to be expected... my point was more that today showed how much of a gap there is between us and the best in this area, and that it needs much work over the pre-season.

Burgoyne in particular - I rate him so highly now that I actually get to see him play at times. Genuine class player, so smooth.

Disagree. It doesn't need much work, just some fine tuning. The nucleus of a strong midfield is there, just need experience which will come. Great game today btw!

 

[master bate]

Re: Clearances, please.

Given that Jamar has dominated in the ruck this year it would be nice to see that play occasionally, let Col come storming through a la G Ablett.

One problem with Jamar though is that he isn't an exceptionally tall ruckman nor does he posses a massive leap. He uses his strength and size to control where the ball will drop which means he wins the hit outs and can control where he wants to hit it. The downside of that is that he is generally hitting it backwards or sideways as you mentioned.

I'd love to see him hit more forward but not sure he will ever be great at that. It still isn't an excuse for not taking more risks with players hitting the clearances with speed and at angles.

 

[Crimson Azure]

I heard that the Hawks kicked 9.5 from stoppages & we kicked 4.2 or something like that so from a scoring perspective we were dominated in the stoppages.

Thats what happens with stronger more mature bodies in the wet though they control this area.

 

[The Dr]

Yup, clearances is where we lost the game imo. We were smashed and we need to improve (although Moloney is obviously very important to us).

Also, considering the quality of our midfield, we seem to always lose the inside 50 count. Maybe it's the lack of a genuine strong KPF, which stops us pumping the ball in there as much as possible, I dunno...

 

[RedLegs#5]

We did get ripped a bit in the middle. However, don't forget the body size of the Hawks compared to us. Give us a few years/ pre-seasons.

And yes...Frawley is the MAN! Owwwnnneed buddy

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Forgive the intrusion, the clearances (and our midfield work in general) this year have been really disappointing as a Hawks supporter. Statistically.....

We won the clearances 55-40, and the centre-breaks 16-9.
yet You won the hitouts 52-38, and the centre-bounce 15-11.

hitouts to advantage were in our favour, 11-7. 30% of hitouts being to advantage is huge - normally about 10-15%.

We scored 10 goals from stoppages, you scored 4.
We scored 5 goals from turnovers, you scored 7.
You scored 1 goal going coast-to-coast, us none.

We kicked long more often, and handballed less.

Until the last quarter we outackled you - in the last you nearly matched your first 3/4! Didn't notice that at the game.

We took more marks inside 50m (10-6), and dominated the inside 50s (61-42).

Onto the rucks:

Jamar dominated the throw-ins by quantity, but Hawks got 4 goals to 1 from them.
Jamar dominated Skipper all over the ground when they matched up.
Johnson dominated the ball-ups by quantity.

Sylvia and McDonald where the two best at clearing the middle, Hawks really shared it around, with 11 different players getting clearances from the centre-bounce, and the Demons just 4.

============

Oh, and Franklin had seven shots on goal, 22 possessions, 7 tackles and was one of our best on the day. I've never seen a bloke get "owned" so often, yet be in the top 5 on the ground. Is he really THAT much better than anyone else? Frawley competed well, was lucky on a few occassions, and REALLY unlucky on some others, but at best shared the honours. That's a win for him personally (Franklin ELITE, Frawley not yet) - but doesn't mean that he 'owned' him.

Don't be disheartened at finals hope gone, there's a lot to like about your side (btw, pump up McKenzie more, he's a future star IMO) - and to compare to your rd.1 side has improved dramatically. In round 1 you DOMINATED the ruck, beat us around the ball, but we still spanked you in general play.

This week we really only won due to extra legs (hope Davey comes back fine in 2011), a better system around the ball and an (almost) competitive ruck duo. The team we put out is close to our best, and should be good enough to do damage in finals - with natural development I think you will be around the 6-10 mark next year and competing in finals.

Oh, and a PS - Watts is a clever footballer, but bombing it on his head isn't going to work against mature AFL defenders - the few times he had space he looked good.

 

[d33my]

Great post Simon Nesbit, particularly agree with your points on Buddy's game and Watts.

 

[The Dr]

Great post Simon Nesbit, particularly agree with your points on Buddy's game and Watts.

Agreed, excellent post. Agree with everything!

 

[demonfan9]

To be fair though, some of those stats aren't entirely relevant when discussing if Frawley "beat" Franklin or not. For example, the amount of tackles that he lays has nothing to do with Frawley - that's purely Franklin's work ethic (which was very good). I wouldn't look too much into disposals either. Franklin won a lot of the ball up on the wings and even at half back when the Hawks pushed all their men back. Frawley often sat back while this happened, content to let Franklin run at him when in possession rather than following his every step and then getting lost in traffic.

Franklin kicked 3 goals, one of which was a very contentious decision and the other two were very clever snaps off the ground. I really only recall seeing Franklin beat Frawley once in a genuine forward-50 marking contest, which was down the Punt Rd end about 40m out. I thought that Frawley won more one-on-one contests than Franklin, but in saying that it's generally easier for a defender to punch than for a forward to mark the ball.

I wouldn't say Frawley owned him, but in my opinion he edged him in direct contests. Franklin was able to make up for it though with plenty of good work around the ground and kicking those two left foot snaps.

 

[Captain Jack]

To be fair though, some of those stats aren't entirely relevant when discussing if Frawley "beat" Franklin or not. For example, the amount of tackles that he lays has nothing to do with Frawley - that's purely Franklin's work ethic (which was very good). I wouldn't look too much into disposals either. Franklin won a lot of the ball up on the wings and even at half back when the Hawks pushed all their men back. Frawley often sat back while this happened, content to let Franklin run at him when in possession rather than following his every step and then getting lost in traffic.

Franklin kicked 3 goals, one of which was a very contentious decision and the other two were very clever snaps off the ground. I really only recall seeing Franklin beat Frawley once in a genuine forward-50 marking contest, which was down the Punt Rd end about 40m out. I thought that Frawley won more one-on-one contests than Franklin, but in saying that it's generally easier for a defender to punch than for a forward to mark the ball.

I wouldn't say Frawley owned him, but in my opinion he edged him in direct contests. Franklin was able to make up for it though with plenty of good work around the ground and kicking those two left foot snaps.

This . Good assessment - i guess what we are measuring when we say Chip 'owned' Buddy is Franklin's influence as a goal-kicker. Chip definitely had the advantage one-on-one more times than not, but to his credit Buddy worked up the ground more and did win a lot of the ball. Overall it was an even contest IMO, which was a win for us. If he hadn't have got those soft frees, people would've given the points to Chip I reckon.

 

[saj_21]

Oh, and Franklin had seven shots on goal, 22 possessions, 7 tackles and was one of our best on the day. I've never seen a bloke get "owned" so often, yet be in the top 5 on the ground. Is he really THAT much better than anyone else? Frawley competed well, was lucky on a few occassions, and REALLY unlucky on some others, but at best shared the honours. That's a win for him personally (Franklin ELITE, Frawley not yet) - but doesn't mean that he 'owned' him.

I agree, i would given a splits points decision on these two. I suppose where the plaudits are coming from with Frawley is in most of the one on ones Frawley won out, but the conditions on the day did suit a backmen.

 

[RedLegs#5]

I agree, i would given a splits points decision on these two. I suppose where the plaudits are coming from with Frawley is in most of the one on ones Frawley won out, but the conditions on the day did suit a backmen.

Stats mean absolutely nothing. I was at the game with the duel right in front of me. Besides a few cheap free kicks, Franklin was shut out of the game. Looked to be beaten hands down by Frawley. He really did have his number all day especially considering the amount of time the ball was spent in Hawthorn's forward 50.

Hawks fans may want you to think otherwise, but they're wrong.