Climate change is the "pivot point" of Australian politics: party allegiances are ded

Howard Littlejohn

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Or.is it like some workplaces (public service as an example) where there is no point being in a union cause they just don't care when issues are raised. We have hundreds of.jobs cut or relocated in recent years and the CPSU has said nothing and done nothing despite pleas from union members who are all now.quitting the union.

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CPSU is one of the more vociferous unions. They just get ignored because the public has been trained to loathe the public service (sometimes with good reason - though even centrlink give better service than the job network providers). Then there are people like me who cost the taxpayer three times as much as public servant doing the same job (I see about the same amount of it as a public servant, the rest goes to American based companies) because contractors aren't counted in the government imposed public service headcount.
It might be bad for me personally, but getting rid of the excess consultancy contracts and getting more done in-house as the ALP said they would do would allow huge cost savings without losing one person other than contract lawyers.
 

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Present Not Past

Norm Smith Medallist
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Or.is it like some workplaces (public service as an example) where there is no point being in a union cause they just don't care when issues are raised. We have hundreds of.jobs cut or relocated in recent years and the CPSU has said nothing and done nothing despite pleas from union members who are all now.quitting the union.

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Union members should receive the benefits of Enterprise Agreements agreed to between the government and the Unions whilst the non-union employees should take whatever they're offered. I'd be happy with that :)
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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This is completely deceptive.

The EU shielded British steel from many regulatory requirements and gave it preferential access to a market it would otherwise have been outcompeted in.

British steel tanked because of BREXIT, not in spite of it.
Nonsense. British Steel was unable to obtain its 'free carbon emissions credits' for this year after the European Commission suspended the UK from the EU’s Emissions Trading System. They were facing a £500m fine on top of the £120m bill for carbon dioxide emissions. These are massive financial impositions that result in job losses and British Steel is not the only company impacted.

You fail to distinguish between Brexit and the failure to implement it with the resultant uncertainty. It's been nearly 3 years now since the Brexit vote and the British people have been severely let down. If Britain had promptly left the EU and left the EU’s Emissions Trading System these financial impositions would have gone away.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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CPSU is one of the more vociferous unions. They just get ignored because the public has been trained to loathe the public service (sometimes with good reason - though even centrlink give better service than the job network providers). Then there are people like me who cost the taxpayer three times as much as public servant doing the same job (I see about the same amount of it as a public servant, the rest goes to American based companies) because contractors aren't counted in the government imposed public service headcount.
It might be bad for me personally, but getting rid of the excess consultancy contracts and getting more done in-house as the ALP said they would do would allow huge cost savings without losing one person other than contract lawyers.
I assume you are talking about companies like Accenture and KPMG being awarded government contracts. It's a massive rort and only explained by those in control of awarding such contracts getting some sort of kickback from the deal.

There's a similar process in non public companies except there is pressure from shareholders to reduce costs. The contracts are awarded to consultancy companies who outsource the work to cheap workers in India. It used to be that you had to deal with 'industry partners' in India but in the last few years those workers have been brought onshore into Australian offices via skills visas.
 

demondavey

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Apr 18, 2005
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If the technology base wasnt going to change overtime then the cheapest and fairest way to mitigate climate change is to do everything now and pass on all the costs to future generations who can better pay for it and are the ones that truly benefit from the action.

However the debate becomes more complicated when you consider the technology base is improving over time, in some cases rapidly. It makes you question whether its worth waiting. 15 years ago advocates of strong climate change action were suggesting replacing all coal generation plants with gas and mandating the use of hybrid vehicles over ICEs. Both would of done very little to reduce emissions and would of made the eventual cost of switiching to technologies that are actually game changes (solar with batteries and electric vehicles) more costly. In saying that, these game actual changing technologies are now close enough to being competitive now. They could be mandated now with only minimal impact on increasing costs of energy. We could very easily in developed economies be around 90 percent clean in energy emissions by 2030. Non energy emissions are much more problematic though and probably not ready to mandate clean technologies there yet.
Of course it’s not worth waiting. Get on to it now. We’ve got until 2030 to get our act together because that is when we need to reach our 45% target. We need to transition to solar as quickly as possible in areas where we know can handle it reliably. Basically the adani mine needs to be slowly phased out and those workers transitioned to new positions in renewable energy.
 

Kwality

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I think you are trying too hard to weave climate change into the narrative of what happened in this election.
See Joel Fitzgibbons seat, the ALP lost 20% to One Nation - their candidate is a coal miner, The seat is in the Hunter in NSW, not Q,

Jobs is what is the DNA of Labor not progressive causes.
 

Kwality

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Suppose Australia shouldn't have taken part in any international action then.
Well then you should be in strong favour of significant climate action on behalf of this country.

Burke has proposed we adopt a Green New Deal style platform, something gaining traction in the UK, Europe, US and now Aus. That includes shifting away from tax or cap and trade style solutions and towards jobs/re-training programs, direct investment in greening industry and infrastructure builds.

The Australian electorate has rejected market mechanisms after huge fear campaigns twice, yet Labor's investment mechanisms largely survived and were wildly popular despite constant sabotage, so it looks like they need to reorient.
IMHO these attitudes are at the core of the failure of the climate chsnge movement to get more traction , Demonising coal pulls in the easily lead but jobs, paying off the family home, educating the kids will ring a chord
In the general public.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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IMHO these attitudes are at the core of the failure of the climate chsnge movement to get more traction , Demonising coal pulls in the easily lead but jobs, paying off the family home, educating the kids will ring a chord
In the general public.
You can't blame scientists, advocates and politicians who are in favour of action forever.

I wonder how this current generation will respond when the impacts really start to be felt in the developed world. A new ivory back scratcher might be the least of Palmer's problems.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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Nonsense. British Steel was unable to obtain its 'free carbon emissions credits' for this year after the European Commission suspended the UK from the EU’s Emissions Trading System. They were facing a £500m fine on top of the £120m bill for carbon dioxide emissions. These are massive financial impositions that result in job losses and British Steel is not the only company impacted.

You fail to distinguish between Brexit and the failure to implement it with the resultant uncertainty. It's been nearly 3 years now since the Brexit vote and the British people have been severely let down. If Britain had promptly left the EU and left the EU’s Emissions Trading System these financial impositions would have gone away.
And post BREXIT they won't have preferential access.

So they will be cooked, regardless. The EU has been shielding them from competition for some time.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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When you are sick and you visit a doctor who has studied in the field of medicine for 10 years and dont like his prognosis do you throw a tantrum and respond "you are all wrong?"
Seeds, you aren't a doctor, nor are you an atmospheric scientist, hydrologist, ecologist or any of a number of specialities that contribute to the field. You clearly do not understand the science and as with most topics, just throw shit at the wall and hope people won't call you out on it.

I've attended a number of conferences, including briefings from IPCC contributors through my university/faculty, because they are relevant to my field. Believe it or not, the spread of disease vectors, and risks to increased morbidity from certain viral and bacterial pathogenesis, it tightly linked to climactic shifts and it's impact on local ecosystems/invasive species.

It's also something my peers regularly keep apprised of, from people in health policy, immunologists to geneticists who specialise in work with particular model organisms. But when people relentlessly talk obvious shit, why bother treating them seriously? I'm not rebutting a paper, suggesting edits for a peers work, or writing a review, where I need to carefully critique published findings, so you write dumb posts and get dismissive answers.
 
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Kwality

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You can't blame scientists, advocates and politicians who are in favour of action forever.

I wonder how this current generation will respond when the impacts really start to be felt in the developed world. A new ivory back scratcher might be the least of Palmer's problems.
Its not the message its the sales force, & selling guilt Folau style aint going to work here.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
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And post BREXIT they won't have preferential access.

So they will be cooked, regardless. The EU has been shielding them from competition for some time.
Preferential access to what? They're out of business. Kaput. 5,000 direct jobs lost and up tp 25,000 indirect.

The EU didn't shield British Steel from competition. It imposed huge financial burdens on it.
 

Rob R

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Aug 17, 2009
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CPSU is one of the more vociferous unions. They just get ignored because the public has been trained to loathe the public service (sometimes with good reason - though even centrlink give better service than the job network providers). Then there are people like me who cost the taxpayer three times as much as public servant doing the same job (I see about the same amount of it as a public servant, the rest goes to American based companies) because contractors aren't counted in the government imposed public service headcount.
It might be bad for me personally, but getting rid of the excess consultancy contracts and getting more done in-house as the ALP said they would do would allow huge cost savings without losing one person other than contract lawyers.
That would be great but of course the ALP promises to cut contractors and replace them with APS everytime they get elected and straight away do the opposite anyway. CPSU gets ignored because they really do nothing except in Canberra and only then as part of an ALP campaign, go the regions and the CPSU couldn't care less about its members.
 

medusala

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There's also the small matter that we should act on our own terms before others impose it on us.

Oh yes they will.
Lets shoot ourselves in the foot before someone else does. Not entirely sure that's rational.

The most likely culprit do to something so stupid is the EU (and it wont be anything to do with the environment), although the idiot wing of the Dems have made similar noises too.

Well then you should be in strong favour of significant climate action on behalf of this country.

Burke has proposed we adopt a Green New Deal style platform, something gaining traction in the UK, Europe, US and now Aus.
lol.
 

Bollox

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Jobs is what is the DNA of Labor not progressive causes.
Unfortunately it was a long long time ago.
Even if the ALP won the election it would have been the same result again....they would have inherited a lower unemployment rate than when they were last in govt.
i.e. the mob that does not "stand for jobs" has a far better jobs record.

It is almost a given that the electorate understands this.

They have wandered off from their core mantra for good reason.

There was nothing in the last election to show that climate change is somehow increasing as an issue with Australians. Zali Steggall could have campaigned on Euthanasia and won. She could have campaigned on simple local issues and won. Warringah (as I know only too well) thought Abbott's time was over and didn't think he should have run. If he passed the baton off to someone else it would have been a likely INCREASED vote.
Unfortunately now she gets 1 term only before ousted and the electorate doesn't get a say in anything.
Since the election its all you hear round these parts....as soon as there became a majority she became dead in the water and the seat of Warringah became irrelevant.

You cant decipher anything from inner city politics. It is proven worthless as any sort of indicator of how the nation truly thinks. Just proven once again.
 

kranky al

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There's issues with what the local grid can handle when it comes to rooftop solar.

If there's ten houses on a street and five have solar, then two of the other five get it, they'll struggle to get the best result. If any. In terms of selling it back into the grid.
In geraldton there is a new power company starting up - they are targeting people (such as myself) who have large solar arrays and get paid sfa compared to the cost of the power we use.

They supply us battery systems free of charge - they use our excess power to power industry in the region - and we get to use the battery at night

This is the future - distributed systems.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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In geraldton there is a new power company starting up - they are targeting people (such as myself) who have large solar arrays and get paid sfa compared to the cost of the power we use.

They supply us battery systems free of charge - they use our excess power to power industry in the region - and we get to use the battery at night

This is the future - distributed systems.
Yep, DER is exactly where it is at.
 

Socrates2

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Aug 11, 2015
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Great to see Sarah Hanson-Young rip the Nationals a new one. The Nationals and some Libs are advocating for the economic insanity of nuclear power. Some choice quotes from the much maligned but erudite Miss Young.
As conservative MPs move to establish a Senate inquiry into nuclear power when parliament returns next month, the Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young has invited the former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce to debate her in the “town he thinks it should be built”.

“Talk of overturning the ban on nuclear power in Australia is crackpot stuff,” Hanson-Young, who is the party’s environment spokesperson, said.


“Aside from being a dangerous technology, nuclear power is wildly expensive and would take a decade or more to build.

“It would be a funny joke if it wasn’t so embarrassing to have the Nationals, who are in government and who sit around the cabinet table, pushing for this.

“These people are meant to be in charge, and they’re running around like a bunch of lunatic cowboys."
 

Bollox

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Great to see Sarah Hanson-Young rip the Nationals a new one. The Nationals and some Libs are advocating for the economic insanity of nuclear power. Some choice quotes from the much maligned but erudite Miss Young.
As conservative MPs move to establish a Senate inquiry into nuclear power when parliament returns next month, the Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young has invited the former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce to debate her in the “town he thinks it should be built”.

“Talk of overturning the ban on nuclear power in Australia is crackpot stuff,” Hanson-Young, who is the party’s environment spokesperson, said.


“Aside from being a dangerous technology, nuclear power is wildly expensive and would take a decade or more to build.

“It would be a funny joke if it wasn’t so embarrassing to have the Nationals, who are in government and who sit around the cabinet table, pushing for this.

“These people are meant to be in charge, and they’re running around like a bunch of lunatic cowboys."
The classic regressive greens.
The dangerous technology ? How exactly is nuclear power NOT the safest on the planet ?

Lets not embark on large infrastructure projects for the betterment of the nation....the green luddites don't like safe clean high output power generation.
Maybe we can bang on a tambourine and watch a few rooftop deaths installing toy solar panels.

Perfect place for it, time not an issue, resource rich, easy to dispose of waste safely, big coastline..harldy a single reason not to.
Just maintain the current mix, stop blowing up power stations, tell the greens to take a bex...then build some proper 21st century power generation for the future.

Hard to believe anyone would even quote that dumb bitch. She's probably assuming Homer Simpson would be working at the power stations.

 

Socrates2

Norm Smith Medallist
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The classic regressive greens.
The dangerous technology ? How exactly is nuclear power NOT the safest on the planet ?

Lets not embark on large infrastructure projects for the betterment of the nation....the green luddites don't like safe clean high output power generation.
Maybe we can bang on a tambourine and watch a few rooftop deaths installing toy solar panels.

Perfect place for it, time not an issue, resource rich, easy to dispose of waste safely, big coastline..harldy a single reason not to.
Just maintain the current mix, stop blowing up power stations, tell the greens to take a bex...then build some proper 21st century power generation for the future.

Hard to believe anyone would even quote that dumb bitch. She's probably assuming Homer Simpson would be working at the power stations.

You want Nuclear because it's safer than solar? I'm not sure about that one.You say there's hardly a reason not to go nuclear? It's the economics(as well as radioactive waste and possible meltdowns). It's not feasible.
France already has the infrastructure. We live in a sunny, windy country.Why would you chose nuclear over solar and wind? It's absurd and shows how the Liberals would rather harm the economy than invest in comparatively cheap renewable energy.
There's no need to call Sarah Hansen-Young a 'dumb bitch' is there? If people had of listened to her, the Murray-Darling river system would not have collapsed. Another disgraceful environmental legacy from the nats and libs. She does more for this country than Barnaby Joyce that's for sure.Do you want to take back your misogynistic comments?
 

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