Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[Ghost Patrol]

The other thing is, Australia is responsible for ONE percent of global emissions. ONE. Nothing this country does will make the slightest difference to the climate. Good luck getting the high emitters, Africa, Asia and South America to do what we’re doing.

The other thing is, there are Too Many People - and the world population growth shows no sign of slowing. And they all want to be rich like us

Did us one percenters make a difference in WW1 and/or WW2?

You really think we shouldn't have bothered helping?

 

[Fadge]

The other thing is, there are Too Many People - and the world population growth shows no sign of slowing. And they all want to be rich like us

Yes. Another real issue with little to no focus.

 

[Carringbush2010]

mainly concern we aren't doing enough.

From my pov, I'd confidently argue that most are concerned we aren't doing enough.

The comments about equal competing voices is important though, from day 1 it's presented the argument as discussion between two competing points with equal validity, but we know that has never been the case.

Not as important as actually doing enough about it though < that should be viewed as the most pertinent bit, rational debate is good for that , infantile arguing from emotional ends isn't i:e 'climate change isn't real'. (not saying you are but some are - in all spheres of this discussion).

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not to the extent many are making it out to be.

When I refer to 'real issues', I consider urgency.

Imagine if we had have invested 5% of the money into preparing for a pandemic that we invested in climate change over the past 20 or so years, we would have been in a much better position to deal with what we were confronted with...

No probably not, but as soon as you allude that it isn't a real issue, you'll immediately have your opposition believe that you believe what you allude.

There is urgency, but not enough, for a myriad of reasons, some reasons are in bad faith though, that's why your opposition is angry.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The other thing is, Australia is responsible for ONE percent of global emissions. ONE. Nothing this country does will make the slightest difference to the climate. Good luck getting the high emitters, Africa, Asia and South America to do what we’re doing.

The other thing is, there are Too Many People - and the world population growth shows no sign of slowing. And they all want to be rich like us

And? Who does not know this? That shouldn't equate to we do nothing or 'chyna n indya should do it first'.

The whole world needs to collaborate to avoid what needs to be avoided.

 

[Cap]

From my pov, I'd confidently argue that most are concerned we aren't doing enough.

Not as important as actually doing enough about it though < that should be viewed as the most pertinent bit, rational debate is good for that , infantile arguing from emotional ends isn't i:e 'climate change isn't real'. (not saying you are but some are - in all spheres of this discussion).

I'm not sure I have the same confidence.

I think Australia is a good example of having to spend over a decade convincing people rather than doing anything.

Hopefully that's turned a corner.

Also, infantile arguments are way more fun than rational debate

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm not sure I have the same confidence.

I find this surprising, would you agree that the majority of the scientific community believe that not enough is being done? The actual people we should be listening to and I believe most do.

I think the previous Australian govt. is a good example of having to spend over a decade convincing people rather than doing anything.

Hopefully that's turned a corner.

Edited: I'm pretty sure this is what you meant, and yes I'd definitely agree.

Also, infantile arguments are way more fun than rational debate

Lol.

 

[sherb]

The other thing is, Australia is responsible for ONE percent of global emissions. ONE. Nothing this country does will make the slightest difference to the climate. Good luck getting the high emitters, Africa, Asia and South America to do what we’re doing.

Geezus, not this tired old talking point again.

 

[ElectricG]

The other thing is, Australia is responsible for ONE percent of global emissions. ONE. Nothing this country does will make the slightest difference to the climate. Good luck getting the high emitters, Africa, Asia and South America to do what we’re doing.

The other thing is, there are Too Many People - and the world population growth shows no sign of slowing. And they all want to be rich like us

So what should we do? Nothing? Wait for China and India to save the day?

Serious question.

 

[Fadge]

So what should we do? Nothing? Wait for China and India to save the day?

Serious question.

Another serious question...

Why aren't those with the financial resources to do so investing in the development and exploration of alternative energy, if it is such a fait accompli?

Basic economics of supply and demand seems to be failing here...

 

[O Grobbecker]

So what should we do? Nothing? Wait for China and India to save the day?

Serious question.

Accept that the overwhelming majority of humanity don’t see climate change as urgent and dire an issue as many posters to this thread do and that they are more likely to be right. Then try and persuade others instead of belittling and insulting them.

 

[Fadge]

Accept that the overwhelming majority of humanity don’t see climate change as urgent and dire an issue as many posters to this thread do and that they are more likely to be right. Then try and persuade others instead of belittling and insulting them.

This could very well be the post of this thread.

 

[burge13]

So what should we do? Nothing? Wait for China and India to save the day?

Serious question.

The countries with the most emissions are quite poor, and cold. They're not giving up heating because some * knuckle here glued himself to a bike. The vast majority of the world have other priorities

Australia going green is akin to throwing a deck chair off the titanic. Doesnt make a single bit of difference other than making a few (unemployed) protesters here feel better.

 

[ElectricG]

Accept that the overwhelming majority of humanity don’t see climate change as urgent and dire an issue as many posters to this thread do and that they are more likely to be right. Then try and persuade others instead of belittling and insulting them.

I’ve just looked this up. Globally about 48% view climate change as a “very serious threat” so I don’t think 52% constitutes and overwhelming majority. A majority, yes, but you are exaggerating.

Agree that people who accept climate change as fact could be a bit less quick to insult the intelligence of the deniers/“skeptics”. But holy sh*t, can we get serious please? This isn’t some obscure woke initiative that’s gotten out of hand. It’s real, and it’s present whether we can get buy-in from the Facebook-laugh-react people. Even if 0% believe in it, it’s still there.

 

[O Grobbecker]

I’ve just looked this up. Globally about 48% view climate change as a “very serious threat” so I don’t think 52% constitutes and overwhelming majority. A majority, yes, but you are exaggerating.

Agree that people who accept climate change as fact could be a bit less quick to insult the intelligence of the deniers/“skeptics”. But holy sh*t, can we get serious please? This isn’t some obscure woke initiative that’s gotten out of hand. It’s real, and it’s present whether we can get buy-in from the Facebook-laugh-react people. Even if 0% believe in it, it’s still there.

So did I, before I posted. Your 48 % looks to have come from averaging of a survey of 26 countries, there are 195 in the world. The 26 don’t include China, India or all but 2 countries in Africa. Most are European, the Anglophone and 3 US allied Asian countries, Japan, South Korea and Philippines. With the exception of Russsia, the governments of all are doing something about climate change, even if nominally. Those not surveyed make up the bulk of the world population and their governments are doing nothing. Indeed, developing countries are regarded as exempt for the next x number of years, that’s how seriously UN and the world generally regard climate change in the world of realpolitik. Overwhelming isn’t an exaggeration. In the spirit of dispassionate discourse, please do not regard it as an attack that I note that you are demonstrably one who sees climate change as dire and urgent. Perhaps the majority, overwhelming or otherwise, are right.

 

[adogsfan5]

I would say over 95% of people I have come across who don't believe we are on the verge of a climate apocalypse fall into exactly none of the four aforementioned categories.

I'd add a fifth category:
5. Intelligent people who engage in critical thinking to form their own 'opinions'.

What category does this moron fit into?

 

[owen87]

In fact, all the anti-vaxxers I know are very pro Climate Change.

I very specifically mentioned covid.

Very different cohort to your stock standard anti-vaxxer types.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I very specifically mentioned covid.

Very different cohort to your stock standard anti-vaxxer types.

And your statement would still be wrong. Like I said, certainly is in my case as well as others I know.

 

[owen87]

And your statement would still be wrong. Like I said, certainly is in my case as well as others I know.

I suppose it's nice for you that you're an exception, but there's certainly a strong convergence of people who were opposed to any measures to do anything about covid, and those who are opposed to any form of climate change related action.

It's a tribal thing now.

 

[Fadge]

I suppose it's nice for you that you're an exception, but there's certainly a strong convergence of people who were opposed to any measures to do anything about covid, and those who are opposed to any form of climate change related action.

It's a tribal thing now.

Really?

Again, not in my social circles.

In fact, it is pretty much the opposite, as per my previous comment.

 

[owen87]

Really?

Again, not in my social circles.

In fact, it is pretty much the opposite, as per my previous comment.

I can't say my social circles includes a whole lot of your typical anti-vaxx types that are opposed to everything.

I do know some people that went full conspiracy theorist anti-covid vaccine and are well and truly against anything climate change related. People I read on the internet largely fall in to the same category.

The anti-vaxx types you're referring to are at least consistent, and have been anti-vaxx for a long time. I think they're idiots who would see us back to childhood polio, but at least they're consistent in their stance.

 

[Fadge]

I can't say my social circles includes a whole lot of your typical anti-vaxx types that are opposed to everything.

I do know some people that went full conspiracy theorist anti-covid vaccine and are well and truly against anything climate change related. People I read on the internet largely fall in to the same category.

The anti-vaxx types you're referring to are at least consistent, and have been anti-vaxx for a long time. I think they're idiots who would see us back to childhood polio, but at least they're consistent in their stance.

Fair enough.

I haven't had the same observations.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I’ve just looked this up. Globally about 48% view climate change as a “very serious threat” so I don’t think 52% constitutes and overwhelming majority. A majority, yes, but you are exaggerating.

Agree that people who accept climate change as fact could be a bit less quick to insult the intelligence of the deniers/“skeptics”. But holy sh*t, can we get serious please? This isn’t some obscure woke initiative that’s gotten out of hand. It’s real, and it’s present whether we can get buy-in from the Facebook-laugh-react people. Even if 0% believe in it, it’s still there.

The question is can anything be done about it without total buy-in from the world, especially the biggest emitters? it’s futile. No one is saying do nothing don’t worry about it but whatever we do should be balanced and rational. There’s room to consider and combine all sources of energy including nuclear, gas, hydro and coal, without blanketing the country with windmills and solar panels that can only offer intermittent supply. Sure, use them where appropriate - for instance all new homes should have panels fitted as a standard. But the prejudice against nuclear makes no sense. If it’s the cost, do it gradually, no one expects everything to be done overnight (except Extinction Rebellion, etc ).

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

What category does this moron fit into?

Interesting that Americans had never heard of “rain bombs” , if their news services are anything to go by, yet our very own BoM has been rolling it out along with other catastrophist language over the past couple of years. Fear is a useful tool.

 

[owen87]

The question is can anything be done about it without total buy-in from the world, especially the biggest emitters? it’s futile. No one is saying do nothing don’t worry about it but whatever we do should be balanced and rational. There’s room to consider and combine all sources of energy including nuclear, gas, hydro and coal, without blanketing the country with windmills and solar panels that can only offer intermittent supply. Sure, use them where appropriate - for instance all new homes should have panels fitted as a standard. But the prejudice against nuclear makes no sense. If it’s the cost, do it gradually, no one expects everything to be done overnight (except Extinction Rebellion, etc ).

Improving the tech certainly helps push other countries along the pathway.

Australia has some of the best conditions on the planet for solar power, why shouldn't we be world leaders in developing and using solar panels? Make them cheaper and more efficient. Work out ways to improve storage concerns.

Apple weren't the first company with a smart phone, but the iPhone dragged the entire industry (and world) along rapidly because it was a huge improvement over what was already there. The smart phone market went from 0 to 100 in a very short time window.

The idea that we have to sit on our hands and wait for China and India to do everything is flawed, when part of the problem is that the technical solutions still need to be better.