Coach Grumpy

[big_e]

No he didnt that was finch and paine with the backing of other players, this is the conclusion to what was started when langer had his power stripped back then and cummins wasnt in charge then

Cummins was in the meeting. It was Eddings, Hockley, Paine, Finch and Cummins.

 

[Phone]

It's telling that we're into day 3 of this and no-one is really talking about the core issue: considering the remediation work that was done 6 months ago (CEO + chairman being called in to sort it out, the coach being told to take a step back, the hiring of new assistant coaches), what on earth could have been a contract offer that CA could realistically offer that Langer would realistically accept. And that's because there's not one. CA could not offer 3 or 4 years given the events. It seems incredibly unlikely Langer wouldn't've accepted 2 years or less (particularly if the salary stayed the same or was even reduced). If they do and he gets sacked after 2 years and there's a million dollar pay-out, there's a ton of voices saying why on earth did you offer that deal to someone whose performances forced a massive readjustment 6 months prior

CA could have done various things (told him he had no chance of a contract before the Ashes, told him no had no chance of a contract straight after the Ashes) but as long as Langer chases after a contract that anyone who actually critically thinks about for like a minute surely realises was never going to happen, it all ends basically like this anyway

 

[HODGEYROAD]

27 tests: 15 wins, 7 losses, 5 draws.

I suppose it was stat padded by a large potion of those 27 tests being at home, but still a good record.

 

[deanc]

Four years and 45 ODIs since 2018, but ok I guess?

Looking forward to how you guys No True Scotsman your way through any other player responses that don't paint Langer as the unhinged lunatic you desperately want him to be.

Yes, just to clarify.

CA and some media grubs portrayal of Langer:


vs mine and suggest most of the Australian players and cricketing public:

 

[BStaff17]

I suppose it was stat padded by a large potion of those 27 tests being at home, but still a good record.

Yeah he only coached 2 away series and one of them was neutral Pakistan in the UAE.

More of a reflection on CA and the ICC that Australia have only had 2 away test tours in 4 years.

Covid didn't help but how many test tours got cancelled in that time just 2 from memory South Africa and Bangladesh.

So basically only 4 test tours abroad were scheduled in last 4 year cycle.

 

[010203]

On a somewhat unrelated note, Shane Keith Warne wants Cricket Australia to poach Gillon McLachlan. Hmmm.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I suppose it was stat padded by a large potion of those 27 tests being at home, but still a good record.

And playing 10 tests against England who are dead set hopeless

 

[BStaff17]

Crazy when you think Australia hasn't played a test in New Zealand for exactly 6 years and no tests in the West Indies since May 2015.

Its pathetic when are we going to play ireland in a test or a limited over series even.

Unless its England or India.

CA dont give a shit about the rest.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

McGowan might be forced to open the borders so the WA people can storm across to Jolimont with their pitchforks.

Yeah pigs fly too lol

 

[frankrizzo]

issue with NZ is we don't want to go over for two tests and they dont want us over for tests as they make their money playing us in limited overs so both sides are happy to just agree to short limited overs tours while we the fans want a 3 match test series.

 

[Richard Cranium]

FMD
Your original question was

"Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.
What am I missing here?"

I said people were pissed off at they way CA have handled it, which I thought answered it.

Then you go off on a tangent about Cummins and the players getting shots in the press.
What has people having a go at Cummins have to do with the way CA handled Langers departure?

Apology accepted

FFS... Can't believe this could be so tough to comprehend, but my original question was relating to the large amount of people having a go at Cummins et al you dolt. The fact that my first response to you made that clear should have, you know... made that clear. Just because you didn't pick up on that doesn't make it untrue.

 

[Tugga27]

FFS... Can't believe this could be so tough to comprehend, but my original question was relating to the large amount of people having a go at Cummins et al you dolt. The fact that my first response to you made that clear should have, you know... made that clear. Just because you didn't pick up on that doesn't make it untrue.

No it wasn't.

This was your original question.

Pat Cummins wasn't mentioned.

"I'm genuinely surprised that more than just nuffies from Perf (and Matt Hayden) are upset about this. Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.

What am I missing here?"

Never mind.

 

[melanChronic]

Hilarious but also disturbing that the mouthbreather, pearlclutching element of Australian cricket is trying to tie this all back to the sandpaper incident.

As if they didn't do enough damage the first time they blew their collective gasket and robbed more balanced cricket observers of a year of prime SPD.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Pat didnt lie all he said there was process being undertaken and it was up to Cricket Australia to make the final call.

Which was the case at the time on Thursday. CA met on Friday.

There is not much more he can do or say at the time.

CA board are within their rights to take players feedback on but also make a decision thats for the best interests for Australian Cricket not just the players.

Pat's biggest mistake was doing the media rounds before a decision was made.

And CA diddy daddling to finally making a decision in the process throwing Cummins and Langer under the bus at the same time. Takes a special organization to do that.

Saying he doesnt have an opinion on it is a clear lie.

Saying he does have a view one way or the other but doesnt want to discuss it all in public would at least be honest.

I agree doing the media conference was stupid (and if you dont believe he went there with the intent to lie then he was very niave to turn up in the first place) and CA should have advised him not to do it but hes still an adult and personal responsibility applies-in that regard most of the criticism hes getting now is deserved.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Serious question what difference would it make if cummins flat out said there was a huge rift with langer and that the senior men find working with him intolerable?

What then? the people here saying langer is simply misunderstood and that the players are just soft wouldnt say ok fair enough pat we get it now they would continue to say langer was right and the players are too soft, it wouldnt change anybodys views on this at all.

Because at least it would be transparent and the principle of being honest matters.
CA and its players need to learn the adage of speak honestly or dont bother speaking at all so you dont lie.
Given a lot of the public doesnt trust them this episode does nothing but make it worse.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Not being in the inner sanctum, did he champion these guys? Our selectors are Langer, George Bailey and Trevor Hohns. Is it known who wanted whom? Even if Langer pushed Richo (WA) or Hazlewood (incumbent) and someone else pushed Boland... so what? That's why we have a committee.

I agree 100% our team is about as good as it could be given the players available. Like many I was surprised we brought in Boland for the third test, but it worked out alright. If Langer was in the locker room saying 'I didn't want you, you are no good' to Boland then maybe CA are right he's not the man for the job, but I doubt that. Boland didn't play like a guy who wasn't welcome.

I've always been a bit of a Warney-esque skeptic about the value of coaches overall in cricket, but we regained the Ashes (draw) with Paine as captain, won the T20 WC with Finch as captain and won the Ashes with Cummins as captain so if Langer has a negative effect on our team then we must be bloody good.

Doesn't it seem strange that with that record he was offered a 6 month contract and the next coach is likely to be inexperienced at Test level, but will probably be offered a 2 year deal.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Doesn't it seem strange that with that record he was offered a 6 month contract and the next coach is likely to be inexperienced at Test level, but will probably be offered a 2 year deal.

Bayliss if he gets the job is more experienced.

 

[Phone]

Doesn't it seem strange that with that record he was offered a 6 month contract and the next coach is likely to be inexperienced at Test level, but will probably be offered a 2 year deal.

it would have been strange to offer any kind of lengthy extension to someone that needed CEO and Chairman level intervention only months prior.

 

[frankrizzo]

Because at least it would be transparent and the principle of being honest matters.
CA and its players need to learn the adage of speak honestly or dont bother speaking at all so you dont lie.
Given a lot of the public doesnt trust them this episode does nothing but make it worse.

We never got that or expected it from finch or paine though when they went to board and demanded langer had his role drastically changed so why would cummins need to discuss what he was asked by the board or what he told the board?

As i said who is changing their minds over this? we know the players felt langer was too much to handle and that why they mutinied if you think they were wrong to do that then you will think they were wrong no matter what cummins says or doesnt say about it all.

if cummins says langer was a tyrant people will call cummins soft if cummins says he respected langer but found him tough to deal with and that he felt he wanted to take the team another way than the langer/paine era people will call him soft and whinge about players having too much power, nothing he says will change your mind if you feel the players shouldn't have a say in this stuff.

 

[GoDees2021]

You still should win tests in your home conditions

I reckon you could a bit more blame on the ****ing players lol. Bowlers including our captain shit the bed a couple times and the batting talent in australia is the worst its been in atleast 40 years

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The cricket public deserve, and should demand an explanation. This isn't good enough, and it worries me Cummins has turned out to be a snowflake.

 

[deanc]

The cricket public deserve, and should demand an explanation. This isn't good enough, and it worries me Cummins has turned out to be a snowflake.

Agree in principal, but in relation to Cummins - the bloke has been in the job 5 minutes, was clearly under instructions not to comment publicly on a decision his employer had not made and wisely had no intention himself of doing so, given the likely detrimental consequences for him as skipper and his team.

The media were clearly pi**ed he didn't give them a headline, so chose to implicate him into the decision anyway with zero evidence and by default question his credibility...
If some posters have been/are being seduced by this, suddenly turning perfect Pat into some divisive snake in the grass, that's just laughable!

Cummins will make a public statement in due course regarding the outcome, until such time some people need to calm the farm, perhaps take a Prozac or Xanax if that helps...

 

[The Passenger]

There's so much emotional claptrap coming out here.

We've had Mitch Johnson say pat Cummins had ample opportunity to back the coach in, which is just bizarre. Why would he back someone in when he clearly wants a new coach?

Now Adam Gilchrist has called out Cricket Australia's "greed"... Yeah they've handled this departure terribly, but can someone exactly tell me how "greed" comes into this?

Not too mention the usual social media cries of "snowflakes", "woke", "snake in the grass" etc.

Intense coach ground down the playing group is a story as old as sport itself.

When we see largely the same results over the next couple of years there will be some much deserved mockery bumped in this thread.

 

[Freezin]

Be interested to see the reaction/comments from the likes of Ponting, Hayden, Warne, Waugh etc if ex teammate Gillespie gets the coaching gig......see who they loved the most....... JL or Gillespie?

 

[Caesar]

What you're missing Richard, is that most people, like myself, are not upset that he's been replaced, it's the way it was handled.

CA have come out of this looking like dicks.

BNG made his own bed

The way the game is played is that the coach sees the writing on the wall and announces that they’re walking away at the end of their contract. This lets them save face and gives the governing body time and clean air to find the replacement.

If he doesn’t the governing body either has to sack him (worst case scenario) or announce that he’s not getting a renewal (which undermines his authority for the remainder of his tenure). Neither is good for the coach, the team, or the governing body.

The six month offer was a way to nudge BNG into doing the right thing and quit on something like his own terms. The only reason it’s not worked out that way is because he has chosen to throw the toys out of the pram in a massive way, getting his mates to stir up the hoi polloi.