Coaching or recruiting

[Naitanui2Masten]

In '07 we certainly didn't do as well as we did in '06 It was a definite drop.

Apoligies though... It's been a loooooooong two years. Sometimes feels like three.

We were a kick away from the Prelimary final and we didnt have Cousins Judd or Kerr????? we were just as good in 07 just had shocking injury run.

i wish you half wits would also give kids time to develop geez, yoiu cant judge a kid after 2 years and trust me the recruiters and coaches no a shit more then u do

 

[Naitanui2Masten]

Key position players. You do not need to recruit that many key position players in a short space of time.





They will be serviceable players no doubt at all. But nothing that has been shown says that these guys are going to be in the ilk that Geelong and St Kilda have.

Players like Dangerfield, Otten and Rich are playing the way you expect young potential A graders to play.

You are all in denial about the quality of our young players on our list IMO.

lol not all players jump out of the blocks Ablett, Bartell, Cox, Kirk and Glass are just a few that did sweet fa and now look where they are all premiership players and would be the first ones picked for there team

 

[Naitanui2Masten]

Pick 35 which we on-traded for pick 22. Took Scott Selwood.

I just think it's ridiculous, the situations for both lists are completely different, not to mention there's been a number of players left out on both sides for each list.

Why wasn't Sellar vs Mitch Brown included?

because Brown >>>> Sellar and the OP is tryin to make the eagles recruiting look shit so addind that will weaken his argument

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

The sky is falling in!!!!

 

[larrikin]

Who do you put the blame on for our poor performance over the past three years? The coaches, or the recruiters.

Our team has not shown much improvement over the past three years so it makes me wonder:

Is it our coaches are not getting the full potential out of the list.

Or

The recruiters have screwed us from the beggining with bad picks.

Over past five years:
Adelaide
04 Pick 24 Van Berlo
04 Pick 56 Knights
05 Pick 16 Douglas
05 Pick 32 Vince
06 Pick 32 Tippett
06 Pick 48 Mackay
07 Pick 10 Dangerfield
07 Pick 27 Otten
07 Pick 75 Walker

Our direct prior pick to this:

West Coast
04 Pick 12 Traded for Stenglein
04 Pick 44 Morton
05 Pick 13 Hurn
05 Pick 29 McKinley
06 Pick 29 MacKenzie
06 Pick 43 Houlihan
07 Pick 3 Masten
07 Pick 20 Notte
07 Pick 22 Selwood

I know which one of those two lists i would rather have.

If you want to do that comparison you should include all players drafted in that period, not just the ones that favour Adelaide.

 

[billy ransom]

Billy Ransom.

I'm not happy supporting a team that is near the bottom.

You should f*** off and support another team then you nancy-boy. Three flags not enough for you?

Adelaide are proof of this

When was their last flag? Refresh my memory.

WE DO NOT HAVE ANY YOUNG PLAYER THAT WILL BE AN A GRADER.

We won a flag 3 years ago and you're already dropping your bundle over a poor couple of seasons. You are softer than jane Pettifer.

Furthermore we will not win a premiership for at least another decade,

You should go see a shrink to treat your depression.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

All I know is that John Worsfold should shoulder none of the blame.

It is clearly the assistants faults, the trainers, The recruitment staff, the runners, the sponsors that have not done their job. They all need to be replaced with adequate people. And John needs a serious pay rise for carrying these bums.

sorry guys, can't help myself. haha

 

[archiemoses]

You should f*** off and support another team then you nancy-boy. Three flags not enough for you?

When was their last flag? Refresh my memory.

We won a flag 3 years ago and you're already dropping your bundle over a poor couple of seasons. You are softer than jane Pettifer.

You should go see a shrink to treat your depression.

CHECK.... MATE....

I would have liked Tippet but he would have left for QLD anyway.

 

[Keys]

All I know is that John Worsfold should shoulder none of the blame.

Quoted for posterity

 

[Eagle87]

Who do you put the blame on for our poor performance over the past three years? The coaches, or the recruiters.

Our team has not shown much improvement over the past three years so it makes me wonder:

Is it our coaches are not getting the full potential out of the list.

Or

The recruiters have screwed us from the beggining with bad picks.

Over past five years:
Adelaide
04 Pick 24 Van Berlo
04 Pick 56 Knights
05 Pick 16 Douglas
05 Pick 32 Vince
06 Pick 32 Tippett
06 Pick 48 Mackay
07 Pick 10 Dangerfield
07 Pick 27 Otten
07 Pick 75 Walker

Our direct prior pick to this:

West Coast
04 Pick 12 Traded for Stenglein
04 Pick 44 Morton
05 Pick 13 Hurn
05 Pick 29 McKinley
06 Pick 29 MacKenzie
06 Pick 43 Houlihan
07 Pick 3 Masten
07 Pick 20 Notte
07 Pick 22 Selwood

I know which one of those two lists i would rather have.

=========
(Going a bit further, if we swapped recruiters with Adelaide for the past five years we could look like)
B: Wirrpanda Glass Otten
HB: A. Selwood Hunter Waters
C: Dangerfield Priddis Staker
HF: Vince Kennedy Lynch
F: Porplyzia Tippett Knights
R: Cox Van Berlo Kerr
I: MacKay Douglas Petrenko Walker

I don't think we would have bottomed out with a list like that.
=======

But who does the blame go on. Coaches or recruiters?

Can you tell me why you left out LeCras? (2004: Pick 37) and Matt Rosa (2004: Pick 29)? and Brett Jones (Rookie elevation 2004)?

I mean I get that "direct prior pick" thing but its complete bollocks. Its meaningless. I mean Morton was only 44 because he was a FATHER/SON and they go as your second round pick.

I mean in 2004, Adelaide added:

John Meesen - Pick 8
Nathan Van Berlo - Pick 24
Chad Gibson - pick 28
Ivan Maric - pick 40
Chris Knights - pick 56
Then they elevated Matthew Smith ......

In 2004 we added:

Rosa - 29
LeCras 37
Morton 44
Brad Smith 58
Then we elevated Brett Jones ....

In total we did ok. Morton turned out to have a ******** for a Dad and no work ethic and Brad Smith had a horror injury run but the other 3 are/have been good contributors.

I could go through each year if you want?

The reality is that since 2004 we have made 2 GF's and won a flag and in addition we lost the 2004 and 2005 Brownlow medallists in their primes. If we still had Judd & Cousins running around we would be a MUCH different side than we are and all these bulltish threads would go away.

 

[swannies]

I wonder if we should run a poll about whether there are more trolls around this year or if they are really stupid eagles supporters?

 

[purple hater]

No this is not true at all. Five years ago we were in the same spot as Adelaide. Riding on a crest towards a serious finals run. .

Yet only one of those teams made two Grand Finals and won a flag in the last five years.

If I had a choice of bottoming out once every decade, and winning a flag OR making finals every year with no flag, I know which one I would take.

 

[Flymaster]

While i do agree with you to an extent on this point, in that we expect too much from some of our young recruits however we still have a reasonable neculeus of good players in the same position as the likes of Thompson, Edwards, McLeod.

We had/have Wirrapanda, Cox, Glass, Priddis, Embley, Hunter, Lynch who are all on a par with them, it is recruting too many similar bigger players that has killed us in the long run. Spangher, Hansen, McKinley, Staker, Lynch, Kennedy, MacKenzie, Notte, way way too many similar players in that list.

I say it again, we have not recruited well over the past five years.

We have not developed potential A Graders over the past five years.

It is now hurting us and we are left as an on field rabble.

None of these guys were recruited in the past 5 years. Hansen was drafted in 2001 - same draft as Judd. Staker and Lynch both drafted in 2002 (Lynch off the rookie list). One could argue that the other KPP's (especially Kennedy, Brown, Notte and McKenzie) were drafted to ultimately replace the likes of Staker, Lynch and Hansen who were clearly part of a different era at West Coast. I would not be surprised to see Kennedy, Brown and McKenzie part of our next premiership team.

 

[bodazoka]

I think we got too complacent with having an awesome midfield. Instead of focusing on getting midfield depth in good drafts over 05-08, which is the key of great sides, we listened to critisism and drafted too many key position players whom many are now fighting for the same spot. You have five-seven key position spots in a team. You have at least 15 running midfield positions yet we picked up tall after tall after tall.

1. In 04 We all ready had 3 genuine A+ grade match winning midfielders followed by Chick, Braun, Rojo, Butler, A.Selwood, Embley, Rosa, Fletcher, Stinga as pure midfielders then we had Waters who could run through the midfield...

In terms of drafting over the period you are talking about 05-08 we drafted Hurn, McKinley, Spangher, Armstrong, Priddis in 05. Priddis is a midfielder, Armstong and Hurn can run through the midfield and have done so at times, Spangher plays his best WAFL football on a wing ie Embley type. In 06 we drafted Houlihan and McNamara, we could of drafted more midfielders instead of McKenzie and Brown.

In 07 and 08 we hardly drafted anything other then midfielders, Scooter, Masten, Ebert, Shuey, Swift, Davis, Cockie etc... as for the 13 midfield positions your talking about I assume you mean HB's and HF's like Smith, Jones, Bedford.

2. If you are going to critisize do your bloody homework!

 

[bodazoka]

I actually feel dirty spending time replying to this OP...I need a bath.

 

[archiemoses]

I actually feel dirty spending time replying to this OP...I need a bath.

It feels like my eyes have been r*ped!

 

[Quinz]

The OP seems to have left out the following players that Adelaide picked up

John Meeson
Chad Gibson
Ivan Maric
Richard Douglas
Darren Pfieffer
Alan Obst
James Sellar
Nick Gill
Bryce Campbell
Jarrhan Jacky
Myke Cook
Tony Armstrong
Aaron Kite

And missing the following that we picked up:

Matt Rosa
Mark LeCras
Matt Spangher
Mitchell Brown
Brad Smith
Will Schofield
James Thomson
Brad Ebert
Brett Jones (rookie)
Josh Kenendy (2005, trade)
Matt Priddis (rookie)


Is there a reason for that?

We don't draft by looking at Adelaide and trying to beat them with comparative picks, we draft by looking at what our team needs and what is available over the whole draft. You are cutting us well short but not including a number of good players and leaving out all of Adelaide's less successful top picks.

And not forgetting that we had higher picks than most clubs over that period, and that Adelaide have done very well- why not compare us to the rest of the league and see how well we do?

And this...

WE DO NOT HAVE ANY YOUNG PLAYER THAT WILL BE AN A GRADER.

Furthermore we will not win a premiership for at least another decade, this recruiting and bottoming out will not get us a flag. Sad but true.

Indicates to me that you have already made up your mind and are looking for 'facts' to fit that pattern. How on earth can you predict what our young players will or will not do?

We looked much further away from a flag in 2001, and let's not forget within our first 6 picks over 00-01 we drafted Andrew McDougall, Jeremy Humm, Trent Carroll and Ashley Sampi.


If you look at the actual additions to the club lists from 2004, that are still there and have played matches:

Adelaide
Patrick Dangerfield
Richard Douglas
Nick Gill
Jarrhan Jacky
Chris Knights
David Mackay
Ivan Maric
Andy Otten
Jason Porplyzia (originally rookied in 2003 and delisted)
James Sellar
Kurt Tippett
Taylor Walker
Jared Petrenko

Just to add to that, Walker was a NSW scholarship player that we couldn't have picked up.

West Coast
Mitch Brown
Brad Ebert
Tim Houlihan
Shannon Hurn
Brett Jones
Josh Kennedy
Mark LeCras
Eric MacKenzie
Chris Masten
Ben McKinley
Jamie McNamara
Tony Notte
Matt Priddis
Matt Rosa
Will Schofield
Scott Selwood
Matt Spangher
Beau Wilkes
Ryan Davis
Nick Naitanui
Adam Cockie
Tom Swift

Ryan Davis was a NSW scholarship player.


Ours looks pretty decent if you ask me. Interesting that Adelaide took more players in every draft than we did but have less still playing.

Of course, I'm nor sure why we're comparing our players to Adelaide anyway, but in terms of the way each team is currently, it's much easier to come in and play well in a top 4 (or close to) team compared to a bottom team.

 

[billy ransom]

The OP seems to have left out the following players that Adelaide picked up

The OP seems like an Adelaide supporter trying to justify why his team is better than ours even though they didn't win the flag (because we arse-r*ped them at Footy Park in the 06 PF).

 

[lewigie]

I wonder if we should run a poll about whether there are more trolls around this year or if they are really stupid eagles supporters?

I think it's all the Fremantle supporters jumping ship

 

[WCEforeverman]

This is taken from this thread: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14525357#post14525357

OMG!!!! Why are football supporters such a negative bunch????

Lets face some facts on the AFL.

This is one of the hardest professions in the world which requires use of high mental, physical and psychological capacities.

How many other jobs are there that require what an AFL footballer goes through?

The average age of a breakout season in the AFL is generally between 3-6 years with most players peaking in their mid 20s.

This seems similar with most work forces where it takes time to develop, understand and then master a role.

Why are we so hard on 18-20 year olds trying to make a living? If you were an employer would you expect success out of someone in their first two years in a role. Of course not. Our expectations are way too high.

Realistically this crappy debate about judging players and draft years should only be done after 10 years or preferbably at the end of a career.

If you want to take a real insight to draft performance start looking at 1997-1999, at least these players have been around 10+ years and we have a proper career performance to judge upon.

17 of the top 20 show they can play this game and have huge upside. Lets really look at the 2006 crop in 2016!!!!!

People GIVE THEM A GO!!!!




Oh and the worst draft ever would not have a player of the ability of J. Selwood.

Lulz!

The bolded part is my favourite.

 

[purple hater]

The OP seems like an Adelaide supporter trying to justify why his team is better than ours even though they didn't win the flag (because we arse-r*ped them at Footy Park in the 06 PF).

Could be an alias of Brad Hardie, he likes to go on about how much better their squad is than ours ( and that Craig is a much better coach than Worsfold, of course!)

 

[ziad]

essentially we got scott selwood for morton.

something like morton + 5th pick (30 something) eagles werent going to use for pick 22 (scott selwood).

I have long considered our recruiters to be the weekest link.
However, Morton for Sellwod is top value.

 

[anti.]

thats odd, because i have long considered our recruiters/recruiting as one of our strongest links.

i mean when you finish inside the 8 for about 75% of your clubs history, you're not getting high picks. to be up so often shows that we've topped up nicely despite not having the pick of the crop.

losing 2 of the best players in the league inevitably makes things a bit harder at the moment..

 

[Eagle Number1000]

I believe that the reason for our bad form over the last three years isn't from the recruitment of our players, it's more of a coaching issue.
Look at it this way- Last year there were players that really needed to be given the axe/traded like Seaby, Hansen, Fletcher. I was really hoping that they would depart which would of freed up space on the list to draft a couple of more young guns.The coaching dicision to keep these has cost us some rebuilding time. The departure of Cousins and Judd was always going to weaken us and is the main reason we are were we are.
J Wolsford dosn't like the trade and dosn't chop the axe which is what was needed.

 

[Quinz]

Well said anti., I reckon we're one of the best with the draft, especially picking up quality rookie listed players.

And we don't often let good players go either, often we get the best from trades that we make.

Just a few trades we have done for some of our premiership players or emerging stars, and a few of my favourites bolded

Fraser Gehrig to St Kilda <<>> Pick 18 (Daniel Kerr)
Pick 8 (Luke Brennan) to Hawthorn <<>> Daniel Chick
David Hynes to Geelong <<>> Pick 20 (Sam Butler)
Pick 12 (Danny Meyer), 28 (Chad Gibson) to Adelaide <<>> Tyson Stenglien
Paul Johnson to Melbourne <<>> Pick 29 (Matt Rosa)
Chad Morrison to Collingwood <<>> Pick 37 (Mark LeCras)
Daniel McConnell, Pick 18 (Max Bailey) to Kangaroos <<>> Pick 13 (Shannon Hurn), 29 (Ben McKinley)
Chris Judd, Pick 46 (Dennis Armfield) to Carlton <<>> Pick 3 (Chris Masten), 20 (Tony Notte) and Josh Kennedy
Mitch Morton to Richmond <<>> Pick 22 (Scott Selwood)