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Thanks Jelly Bean. I agree with you, Michael probably won't need our justifications to make his calls on his favourite teams!

I'd still like to have a fan vote though, from my personal perspective I learnt so much researching players and more. I'd like to hopefully give everyone who frequents the board a week to delve a little deeper into each team if they'd like (Collingwood forever should be their first point of call) and experience a little of how great it was for the 11 of us to research the history of our club. I should have clarified it earlier, but the plan was to have a poll open for a week, then Michael (AKA Lardieslads) to offer his expert opinion. Really looking forward to Michael's opinion, just think that with his standing and knowledge it may compromise the fan vote, rather than encouraging posters to delve a little deeper into each team and learn a little they just go with the expert.

FYI, Lardieslads
 
half_back_flank said:
Thanks Jelly Bean. I agree with you, Michael probably won't need our justifications to make his calls on his favourite teams!

I'd still like to have a fan vote though, from my personal perspective I learnt so much researching players and more. I'd like to hopefully give everyone who frequents the board a week to delve a little deeper into each team if they'd like (Collingwood forever should be their first point of call) and experience a little of how great it was for the 11 of us to research the history of our club. I should have clarified it earlier, but the plan was to have a poll open for a week, then Michael (AKA Lardieslads) to offer his expert opinion. Really looking forward to Michael's opinion, just think that with his standing and knowledge it may compromise the fan vote, rather than encouraging posters to delve a little deeper into each team and learn a little they just go with the expert.

FYI, Lardieslads
Click to expand...
Okay, sounds good - so hold Michael's commentary off for a week?
 
half_back_flank said:
Thanks Jelly Bean. I agree with you, Michael probably won't need our justifications to make his calls on his favourite teams!

I'd still like to have a fan vote though, from my personal perspective I learnt so much researching players and more. I'd like to hopefully give everyone who frequents the board a week to delve a little deeper into each team if they'd like (Collingwood forever should be their first point of call) and experience a little of how great it was for the 11 of us to research the history of our club. I should have clarified it earlier, but the plan was to have a poll open for a week, then Michael (AKA Lardieslads) to offer his expert opinion. Really looking forward to Michael's opinion, just think that with his standing and knowledge it may compromise the fan vote, rather than encouraging posters to delve a little deeper into each team and learn a little they just go with the expert.

FYI, Lardieslads
Click to expand...
I think it's a fair point. Incidentally, I looked at your first post HBF and it was Oct 7 and we were originally talking making 1 choice every day or so which would have taken 6 months. We all enjoyed it so much we were all done in less than a month. Again mate, well done on initiating this we all really have enjoyed taking part and its been absolutely fantastic. Will definitely miss logging on to see what choices have been made and then tossing up over which players to choose and then waiting 10 picks (or however many) hoping our next choice wasn't taken. Look forward to the next phase of this now.
 
Last edited:

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Trickster said:
And in terms of players not selected...

I think there was only 1 B&F winner not chosen (Robert Hyde) and below is a list of players who weren't selected that played over 100 games.

I was close to selecting Jamie Turner, maybe Mark Richardson or Ron McKeown at CHB if Ron Kingston wasn't available and maybe even Kerro in the back pocket if all my other options had gone.

View attachment 1275270

In terms of leading goalkickers not selected, a few more mostly from the start of the 20th century but from the 1950s onwards some notables were Maurie Dunstan (40 and 43 goals in 51 and 52), Ken Smale (47 and 33 in 55 and 56) and who was labelled as the best forward hope since Ron Todd when he arrived (no pressure there) and Jack Anthony (50 goals in 2009).

Sure there are other players in general who some may have wanted to pull the trigger on but didn't not on this list also.
Click to expand...
I considered Smale for one of my last two picks, but then read how he completely fell into obscurity and I went against it haha.
 
Jelly Bean said:
Okay, sounds good - so hold Michael's commentary off for a week?
Click to expand...
Yep, I'm happy with that. It also gives me a bit more time to spend looking at the teams etc. You guys have all taken it so seriously and put such work into it, so I plan to do the same with my evaluations.
The one thing I will say is that I'm not that sure I could meaningfully rank them from 1-11, as was suggested: i reckon that might be a bit beyond me, and trying to distinguish between, say, 7 and 8, might prove tricky. If you really want it I can give it a crack but I'm not sure how useful it would be. It would also potentially be a bit unfair to have to label one of the teams as 'the worst', when all the teams are outstanding, and one is mainly talking about quibbles and minor issues here and there. That could be a bit harsh on whoever I rated 11!
Once I've finished looking at them, it might be that there is a clear (to me) top 6 or top 4 or something: if that's the way it pans out then I'm happy to note that too, so that at least those beyond the top two still get a sense of whether I rated them in the top 'group' or not. But that will depend on what I find when I start looking through the teams in detail - which i am SO looking forward to!!
 
Trickster said:
And in terms of players not selected...

I think there was only 1 B&F winner not chosen (Robert Hyde) and below is a list of players who weren't selected that played over 100 games.

I was close to selecting Jamie Turner, maybe Mark Richardson or Ron McKeown at CHB if Ron Kingston wasn't available and maybe even Kerro in the back pocket if all my other options had gone.

View attachment 1275270

In terms of leading goalkickers not selected, a few more mostly from the start of the 20th century but from the 1950s onwards some notables were Maurie Dunstan (40 and 43 goals in 51 and 52), Ken Smale (47 and 33 in 55 and 56) and who was labelled as the best forward hope since Ron Todd when he arrived (no pressure there) and Jack Anthony (50 goals in 2009).

Sure there are other players in general who some may have wanted to pull the trigger on but didn't not on this list also.
Click to expand...
And FWIW, the other one that I thought was a bit stiff - even though he didn't play 100+ games - was Harry Sullivan. A seriously good full-back, albeit only for a few years. But I think it just shows how well served we have been for full-backs: all 11 teams chose very good options there (and one had Peter McCormack in a pocket as well!) Then on top of that you had guys like Sullivan, Clifton, McKeown and the wonderful Kevin Worthington missing out too ...
 
Lardieslads said:
And FWIW, the other one that I thought was a bit stiff - even though he didn't play 100+ games - was Harry Sullivan. A seriously good full-back, albeit only for a few years. But I think it just shows how well served we have been for full-backs: all 11 teams chose very good options there (and one had Peter McCormack in a pocket as well!) Then on top of that you had guys like Sullivan, Clifton, McKeown and the wonderful Kevin Worthington missing out too ...
Click to expand...
We absolutely have been blessed with our FBs. I found it interesting to read that when Sullivan retired, Reeves form also started to decline.
 
Lardieslads said:
Yep, I'm happy with that. It also gives me a bit more time to spend looking at the teams etc. You guys have all taken it so seriously and put such work into it, so I plan to do the same with my evaluations.
The one thing I will say is that I'm not that sure I could meaningfully rank them from 1-11, as was suggested: i reckon that might be a bit beyond me, and trying to distinguish between, say, 7 and 8, might prove tricky. If you really want it I can give it a crack but I'm not sure how useful it would be. It would also potentially be a bit unfair to have to label one of the teams as 'the worst', when all the teams are outstanding, and one is mainly talking about quibbles and minor issues here and there. That could be a bit harsh on whoever I rated 11!
Once I've finished looking at them, it might be that there is a clear (to me) top 6 or top 4 or something: if that's the way it pans out then I'm happy to note that too, so that at least those beyond the top two still get a sense of whether I rated them in the top 'group' or not. But that will depend on what I find when I start looking through the teams in detail - which i am SO looking forward to!!
Click to expand...

No pressure at all, you call it how you see it. Top 2, top 3, top 5 or honourable mentions, whatever you think is appropriate after reviewing all teams. I agree though, no team needs to be regarded as the 'worst'.
 
My team and analysis (thanks mostly to Collingwood forever):

Back:

Leon Davis Jack Finck Bill Strickland

​

With 225 games for the club, Leon was AA in 2009 as a small forward but went to another level a couple of years later when moved to the back pocket. 2011 was the most complete season I’ve witnessed from a small back, very good defensively but absolutely dynamite offensively, have not seen anyone come close to his precision coming out of the back 50. Went nearly 3 months without a turnover from kicking out. Jack Finck only played 53 games, but he was a dashing, attacking fullback who was a premiership player in ‘53 (named in the bests) and named in Sporting Globes team of the year in ‘54. He was also named as one of the 125 Champions of Collingwood in 2017. Retired from league football at 24 due to the 13 hour round trip he was making due to his day job as a teacher in Portland. Bill Strickland was a star at Carlton (thankfully he repented) and he crossed over to Collingwood in 1893 and his leadership was invaluable for such a young club. Retrospectively awarded best player in '94 and '96, his captaincy was widely praised in the inaugural '96 premiership and was the first Collingwood VFL captain in '97. It's not outlandish to say without his early influence, Collingwood would not have risen so quickly and made the initial VFL breakaway group, instead forced to wait for the 1908 or even 1925 class.



Half Back:

Ben Johnson George Clayden Ernie Wilson

​

2010 premiership player, Johnno was a consistent servant who racked up over 200 games and a couple of runner up B&Fs. George Clayden, a 4 time premiership player (’27,’ 28, ’29, ’30) in a star machine backline who was an enforcer who while representing the Big V was best on ground in a state game in 1931.Ernie Wilson was retrospectively given Collingwood's best player in 1923 and '24 and later that year starred for Victoria in the State Carnival down in Hobart. Premiership player 1919 and 1927, Wilson was to put it nicely, polarising. Seen as a thug by opposition supporters he was however revered by Collingwood supporters from his selflessness and unwavering attack on the football.



Centre:

Michael Taylor Bob Rose Jack Crisp

​

Michael Taylor only spent 4 years at Collingwood, but was fantastic in all of them. SANFL star who had 6 B&Fs with Norwood to go with a couple of runner up years at Collingwood. Bob Rose played 151 games, 4 Copeland trophies, 1953 premiership, TOTC centre and the most courageous player award named in his honour. Was the driving force that propelled Collingwood back to the top after the bleak decade of the 40s. An inspiring leader you can build a team around. It’s been 7 years since Jack Crisp missed a Collingwood game, 157 and counting. 7 years top 10 in B&F voting including 5 top 4 results with 3rd in 2015, 9th in ‘16, 7th in ‘17, 4th in ‘18, 3rd in ‘19, 3rd in ‘20 and winner in 2021.







Half Forward:

Harry Chesswas Travis Cloke Mick Bone

​

Harry Chesswas was a 4 time premiership player. 155 games, was a reliable cog in the machine. Cloke was the 2007 Copeland trophy in his third year then from 2008-13 was an absolute contested marking beast. 2010 premiership player, he was on in 2011 GF to with three big goals in the first 35 minutes, if only we could have got the pill down to him (or Mick didn’t have an absolute ‘mare in the box). AA CHF in 2011 and ’13, ended up with 441 goals from 246 games. Trav wheeling onto that left foot towards Todd would be a sight to behold. Mick Bone grew up and bled Collingwood, a fine albeit brief Collingwood career with 62 games and 55 goals has been by some unfairly remembered by one passage of play. In the 1964 GF and Collingwood holding a slender lead, Bone did what anyone in his position would and indeed absolutely expected to in modern football and drifted down to the backline from the HHF to lend a hand on Bob Rose's orders. Unfortunately, his opponent that day followed him down and kicked the winning goal. Decades later, it would still occasionally get brought up by ‘Collingwood fans’. It turned out to be Norm Smith's 6th VFL premiership in 10 years, but even the master coach was against Crompton (Bone's opponent) following him down to the forwardline that day, however this is a point missed by detractors.
A combination of differences with the coach and injuries saw him only play 2 games in '66, however it wasn't a true indication of Bone's talent, he was offered the vice captaincy at Fitzroy in '67. However Mick went to Wodonga Bulldogs as captain-coach in '67 leading them to a premiership in his first year and named in their team of the century.





Forward:

Ted Rowell Ron Todd Con McCarthy

​

Teddy Rowell was a 3 time premiership player, league leading goal kicker 1902 and in his first 5 years of league football between 1901 - 07 (didn't play in '04, '05) never finished outside the top 5 goal kickers league wide. Then spent the rest of his career in defence, playing full back in the 1910 flag. Played his last game at 39 years old after being a surprise selection for the 1915 GF, given he hadn't played for over a year. Collingwood lost, but he was still named in the best players. Ron Todd, 76 games and 327 goals. Played in the 1936 premiership as a teenager, replacing the suspended Gordon Coventry and kicked 4 goals. 1937 he held down CHF, kicking 62 goals for the season, however it was after Gordon Coventry retired and he was able to play FF was when he really exploded. 1938 he kicked 120 goals in 20 games, 1939 121 in 19 games. Averaged over 6 goals a game in his last two seasons at full forward, including a staggering 7.6 goals a game in the 1939 finals, the last three games for the club. In the off-season prior to 1940 season, he accepted a mammoth offer from Williamstown in the VFA. Despite having a change of heart and offering to return the cheque, the deal was done and he spent 1940 and ‘41 at Williamstown. After three years serving in WW2, Todd again tried to rejoin Collingwood but arriving at Victoria Park for a meeting, he was made to wait an exorbitant amount of time and left feeling humiliated, signing again with Williamstown. One of the most intriguing “what if” moments in Collingwood history, even with the three years of football lost he still kicked over 1000 goals across the VFL and VFA.
Con McCarthy played 101 games, 1917 premiership player, 1919 premiership captain. Stepped down from the captaincy in 1920, however that didn’t stop him from being named Victorian captain for the 1921 interstate carnival. At the end of 1921, was one of unfortunately several star Collingwood players in their prime to defect to the VFA for a substantially better pay packet. Ended up at Footscray, captain-coach of two VFA flags and their inaugural captain-coach in their first year of VFL.



Followers

Neil Mann Bill Serong George Angus​



Neil Mann started as a forward (48 goals in '47 from 16 games), then moved to the backline (runner up in a Copeland in '48). But it was his efforts when thrown into the ruck from 1951 was when he really excelled. Premiership ruckman '53, best finals player '53 and '55, Copeland trophy '54, runner up '53, third place '55; 3rd in the '53 Brownlow, 2nd in '54; Vice captain '50 - '54, Captain '55 and '56 and Victorian representative ‘54 – ’56. Serong only played 98 games and had played his last game for Collingwood at 25 years old. But at Collingwood he was a ‘58 premiership player, 3rd in the Copeland and second in the Brownlow in ‘59 and 2nd the Copeland in ‘60. Then the unexpected deaths of both parents meant more responsibility looking after his family, all while studying law. Pulled the pin in round 14 of the ‘61 season due to his outside commitments, was a late starter in the ‘62 preseason and it was the clubs view he was not able to balance football with family commitments and was unfairly dumped after the last practice match, even though he was vice captain the year before. Cleared to North, he then proceeded to win the Syd Barker medal (B&F) in ‘62. A fantastic talent, what might have been if the club had been flexible and understanding about his commitments outside football. One of the most understated of all Collingwood’s early skippers, George Angus was an important contributor throughout his 10 years at Collingwood, but never more so than during his successful stint as captain and coach when his football brain and ability to determine tactics were most needed in the 1910 premiership, his third at Collingwood. As a player, too, his contribution was immense. He was a tireless and determined follower who was highly valued by his teammates, feared by his opponents and respected throughout football.
 

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South of the Yarra said:
I will try and work out how many Team of the century players each team has and how many each team has from the Pies top 125. May take me about a month.
Click to expand...
I was going to do this exercise anyway, so I hope it's okay for me to step in and post this!:

Just for fun, I thought I'd have another look at the 125 players named in Champions of Collingwood a few years back; see who picked who/how many of them, and who missed out:
1636254038650.png
Not selected:
Bruce Andrew
Marcus Boyall
Barry Harrison
Jim Sharp
Keith Stackpole
Harry Sullivan
Charlie Tyson
Bervin Woods
(8)
 
35Daicos said:
I was going to do this exercise anyway, so I hope it's okay for me to step in and post this!:

Just for fun, I thought I'd have another look at the 125 players named in Champions of Collingwood a few years back; see who picked who/how many of them, and who missed out:
View attachment 1275716
Not selected:
Bruce Andrew
Marcus Boyall
Barry Harrison
Jim Sharp
Keith Stackpole
Harry Sullivan
Charlie Tyson
Bervin Woods
(8)
Click to expand...
And BTW, just so you all know, it's really only Tyson and Sullivan from that list who were in the first 100 based purely on football. For the initial book of 100 in 1992, the club wanted me to include some bods who had contributed much off the ground as much as on. Hence Andrew, Sharp and Stackpole. Boyall and Woods were there mainly because they were good stories, and Harrison because of his role in '58. But if I had my time over again, I'd probably have ditched at least a couple of those and replaced them with guys like Archie Smith, Frank Hailwood, Leo Wescott, Laurie Hill etc.
 
Lardieslads said:
And BTW, just so you all know, it's really only Tyson and Sullivan from that list who were in the first 100 based purely on football. For the initial book of 100 in 1992, the club wanted me to include some bods who had contributed much off the ground as much as on. Hence Andrew, Sharp and Stackpole. Boyall and Woods were there mainly because they were good stories, and Harrison because of his role in '58. But if I had my time over again, I'd probably have ditched at least a couple of those and replaced them with guys like Archie Smith, Frank Hailwood, Leo Wescott, Laurie Hill etc.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying that Michael as I had wondered that given some you had mentioned had played so few games. I guess along a similar vein, as you could only add another 25 players from the 1992 to 2017 versions, if you started from scratch in 2017, are there any additional players you may have included over the recent 25 year period that you couldn't fit in at the expense of some players already selected? Or were those you mentioned, the next best on the list?

I also liked that more details were written of those players already selected in A Century of the Best, though I imagine that would have created a fair bit more work.
 
35Daicos said:
I was going to do this exercise anyway, so I hope it's okay for me to step in and post this!:

Just for fun, I thought I'd have another look at the 125 players named in Champions of Collingwood a few years back; see who picked who/how many of them, and who missed out:
View attachment 1275716
Not selected:
Bruce Andrew
Marcus Boyall
Barry Harrison
Jim Sharp
Keith Stackpole
Harry Sullivan
Charlie Tyson
Bervin Woods
(8)
Click to expand...
Nice work 35!
 
Lardieslads - I'm also really intrigued to find out who you and the team judged as the 'Probable Copeland' Winner 5 times before it was a formal award - is that something you can share? Or would you need to wait for a formal launch / permission from the club?
 
Trickster said:
Thanks for clarifying that Michael as I had wondered that given some you had mentioned had played so few games. I guess along a similar vein, as you could only add another 25 players from the 1992 to 2017 versions, if you started from scratch in 2017, are there any additional players you may have included over the recent 25 year period that you couldn't fit in at the expense of some players already selected? Or were those you mentioned, the next best on the list?

I also liked that more details were written of those players already selected in A Century of the Best, though I imagine that would have created a fair bit more work.
Click to expand...
If I understand the question correctly, the answer is probably that if i had been starting from scratch in 2017, there might have been a few others that I added in at the expense of some who had been in the original edition. But most of those would probably have been from the 'next best' list anyway. Off the top I can't remember too many others post 1992 who would have been pushing for a position, although we did have some long discussions for the last couple of positions (I honestly can't remember who our 'next on the list' post-92 was!). Obviously a few guys have emerged since 2017 whose body of work would now give them good cases (Grundy, Adams, Crisp, Maynard, Howe, De Goey etc). Not sure I'll be in any shape to do the next reworking for our 150th!!
 

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Jelly Bean said:
Lardieslads - I'm also really intrigued to find out who you and the team judged as the 'Probable Copeland' Winner 5 times before it was a formal award - is that something you can share? Or would you need to wait for a formal launch / permission from the club?
Click to expand...
Ideally I should wait until I find out what's happening re a formal announcement (because I know the player in question has living relatives who we would want to inform first). But if that doesn't end up happening, or doesn't look like happening, I'll come back here and let you know what I can ...
 
Trickster said:
Thanks for clarifying that Michael as I had wondered that given some you had mentioned had played so few games. I guess along a similar vein, as you could only add another 25 players from the 1992 to 2017 versions, if you started from scratch in 2017, are there any additional players you may have included over the recent 25 year period that you couldn't fit in at the expense of some players already selected? Or were those you mentioned, the next best on the list?

I also liked that more details were written of those players already selected in A Century of the Best, though I imagine that would have created a fair bit more work.
Click to expand...
And a PS: On reflection, I'm pretty sure that Jamie Turner and Shane Kerrison were both heavily in discussions for the last spot in the 'new' 25 for the 2017 version ...
 
Lardieslads said:
And BTW, just so you all know, it's really only Tyson and Sullivan from that list who were in the first 100 based purely on football. For the initial book of 100 in 1992, the club wanted me to include some bods who had contributed much off the ground as much as on. Hence Andrew, Sharp and Stackpole.
Click to expand...

I’d imagine it’d be an exercise in itself to put together Collingwood FC’s top 100 people of influence (off-field).

It’d be full of characters and stories of people like John Wren, William Beazley, Harry Curtis, Tom Sherrin, etc, etc …. There’d be many entertaining stories of shady back room deals and palace intrigue.

I hope somebody writes the story of what’s happened behind-the-scenes at the club from start of 2017 season until the upcoming 2021 AGM, it would be a fascinating read - and I’d reckon it’ll go down in history as one of the more intriguing periods of the club’s history - and that’s saying something.

Whilst our attention does get drawn to our heroes on the footy field - and justifiably so - I’d imagine the stories of the off-field side of the club would also provide a rich vein of material.
 
35Daicos said:
I was going to do this exercise anyway, so I hope it's okay for me to step in and post this!:

Just for fun, I thought I'd have another look at the 125 players named in Champions of Collingwood a few years back; see who picked who/how many of them, and who missed out:
View attachment 1275716
Not selected:
Bruce Andrew
Marcus Boyall
Barry Harrison
Jim Sharp
Keith Stackpole
Harry Sullivan
Charlie Tyson
Bervin Woods
(8)
Click to expand...

That is brilliant. Thanks so much.
 

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