Collingwood and its Do Better Initiative was clearly just a token PR exercise

[killtaker1993]

I like Heritier, don't understand why everyone is so upset at him. What's he doing these days does anyone know? How is he making a living

 

[Engimal v3]

I don't think it has to be mutually exclusive that Lumumba is a tool or some racist s**t went unchecked at Collingwood.

There's a fair bit of evidence to both things - especially now that it's him, Davis and Krakouer making the allegations.

 

[theyellowsash]

theres a disappointing but utterly unsurprising amount of "the black man is wrong" going on in this thread

 

[theyellowsash]

I don't think it has to be mutually exclusive that Lumumba is a tool or some racist s**t went unchecked at Collingwood.

There's a fair bit of evidence to both things - especially now that it's him, Davis and Krakouer making the allegations.

exactly. personally, i think lamumba is a tool. all of the yoga/karma/poetry stuff he self promoted during his early/middle stage of his career was very annoying 'holy artist' w***ery imo.

doesnt mean he should be subject to racial discrimination, or have no right to speak up about it and pursue rightful compensation.

lets be real, no-one would be complaining if he was white.

 

[Gold Rocks]

theres a disappointing but utterly unsurprising amount of "the black man is wrong" going on in this thread

Look whos entered the thread one of the biggest collingwood trolls on bf besides the__gun aka now rioli_2_rioli who not indigenous like me. Everyone remember when Lumumba done a speach at a Collingwood lunching telling supporters how woman like his black meat. Just shhhh the world has never solved racism and neither will sporting clubs or lumumba who doesnt want to be involved in helping he said but just keeps attacking new and innocent staff from a distance instead of the players who said racist words. Everone just needs to take a deep breath and let collingwood do there process which will take time seeing growth and healing each year.

 

[Gold Rocks]

An even greater number showing themselves as gullible fools who automatically swallow everything a paranoid, neurotic, self absorbed twit chooses to claim. That’s just because it suits the twisted “victim” narrative they dishonestly like to peddle.

Except they want the court case. Which is why they stopped discussions with the club.

Some really strange pies trolls in thread talking like there club never been racist. The main stream media have alot of contacts and would know whats going on so don't you think they would be attacking collingwood harder like last year if the latest lumumba rant was of concern to them. Its like Lumumba screams his lungs out and the pies haters who wont give the them a chance to do a long term process that will take years come here to provoke and troll them about. Its like the haters want Collingwood to fix the a racism culture issue quicker than ordering a double cheese burger at a maccas drive through which is impossible.

 

[VinnieB]

I don't necessarily have a problem with some posters disputing Heritier's claims, but I find it extremely insulting and pathetic that some are accusing him of wanting a payout from Collingwood and or accusing him of several undiagnosed mental health conditions

Those are baseless accusations that is needlessly drives away the serious levels of the allegations Lumumba has made at the Collingwood footy club and whether their Do Better initiative is nothing more than a token PR exercise.

What makes you think the Do Better initiative is a 'token PR exercise'? Are you fully aware of what has been implemented from the report? Are you aware of the schedule that had already been put in place for each of the recommendations made in the report?
Or are you basing your strong opinions solely on what Lumumba has tweeted and nothing else?

 

[Gold Rocks]

What makes you think the Do Better initiative is a 'token PR exercise'? Are you fully aware of what has been implemented from the report? Are you aware of the schedule that had already been put in place for each of the recommendations made in the report?
Or are you basing your strong opinions solely on what Lumumba has tweeted and nothing else?

No need to reply to him because just after the draft or during the preseason he was posting Nick Daicos was an overrated/bust compared to the other kids in the draft like OMG. It speaks volumes when he hadn't even seen him play

 

[WillHayward]

What makes you think the Do Better initiative is a 'token PR exercise'? Are you fully aware of what has been implemented from the report? Are you aware of the schedule that had already been put in place for each of the recommendations made in the report?
Or are you basing your strong opinions solely on what Lumumba has tweeted and nothing else?

Have you got some special inside knowledge Vinnie??

If so what is it?

Or too top secret to share?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Love how the lawyers accuse the ex players of being "financially driven"

Classic gaslighting.

Like financial implications aren't their biggest concern.
Seriously.

Exactly my thoughts!

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The difference is the other players accept that things won't change overnight.
Those players acknowledge how far we have come, while also highlighting how far we have to go

What like Rioli who won't return to the HFC?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

What like Rioli who won't return to the HFC?

Riolis situation is personal, and he's admitted so.
It is a really sad situation

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Two questions (well, three):

- If you were employed as Collingwood’s legal counsel, and your job was to protect the interests of your client, would you just go along with everything H wants?

- If you were Heretier Lumumba, and you knew that the job of Collingwood’s lawyers was to protect their client’s interests, would you approach a meeting with them with the expectation that they would provide all apologies and acknowledgments of wrongdoing that you were seeking, and that anything less would cause you to pull out of the process altogether? Or would you moderate your expectations, given the obvious duty of the legal team to their client, and focus more on improving things for the future than on holding people to account for what’s happened in the past?

1) legal counsel still have a code of ethics

2) you are assuming what happened but to answer your hypothetical; Collingwoods own independently commissioned report verified the racist culture at the Pies including specific incidents and failures of governance. Why wouldn't he expect that given that, they may not be there to challenge, obfuscate and undermine him?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Riolis situation is personal, and he's admitted so.
It is a really sad situation

Personal in what way? He clearly referred to a culture of racism and vilification at the Hawks including the same failures of governance that were uncovered at the Pies through the Do Better report.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I don't necessarily have a problem with some posters disputing Heritier's claims, but I find it extremely insulting and pathetic that some are accusing him of wanting a payout from Collingwood and or accusing him of several undiagnosed mental health conditions

Those are baseless accusations that is needlessly drives away the serious levels of the allegations Lumumba has made at the Collingwood footy club and whether their Do Better initiative is nothing more than a token PR exercise.

It's classic gaslighting. Even if he is seeking a payday so what? He is entitled to damages if he has been wronged. Even if he has mental health issues so what? It doesn't discredit anything he's saying which has been verified by the CFC Do Better report and other former players.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

How is it trivial?

The club was turned upside down because of it and many changes made.
Look at the Hawks where's there do better report after the Cyril stuff come out? All clubs would have some shocking past stories including your own.

Eddie and half the board sacked.
Female indigenous woman now Vice President of the club.
Policy changes to allow players to be heard and protected when doing so.
Buckley gone. Lumumba wanted his head for being insensitive.
More cultural awareness training for players and staff.
Even the bloody cheer squad now has to attend one and a list of words that are banned.
New indigenous coach in Jetta.
Recruiting more indigenous talent - Ash Johnson.
Amoungst other things.

What hasn't happened is $$ payouts.

You are correct. But on the final point, if former players have been wronged then they will likely be entitled to $$ payouts. If they are entitled then there is no reason they shouldn't pursue it.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Collingwood stupidly hired two activists who make money out of the indigienous industry by always see racism everywhere to do the report and slag the club off in what really amounts to a few isolated cases of racism that dates back 20 plus years. It would have to be the dumbest PR exercise of all time to hire the two people they did and in doing so also remove the president of the club. None of what I have said doesn't mean Collingwood dont have questions to answer, apologies to make and to improve the handling of things but the fact Hertier gave his infamous speech on Copeland night and then complained years later but refused to meet personally with the club says more about him and his intentions which is clearly to sue the club.

Collingwood were very good to Davis supporting him by bringing over his family and coach to give him the best chance at career. Krakouer we gave a second chance to after he was jailed for assaulting someone. Lumumba was given great opportunities outside football at Collingwood. He doesnt mention any of this just to play the victim card.

Lumumba is a dishonest flog who preaches to divide by peoples skin colour and wallow in his victimhood having smoked too much weed. He has no interest in reconciliation just make money using race as a weapon. He is a cancer on the people who he pretends to support.

As for Davis and krakouer I hope the club can make amends with them as they are deep down good people and deserve to feel 100% welcome at Collingwood.

Lol at the "activists" card - so the report was wrong? Or did the club have serious and systemic issues that were documented in the report? If so then why label the club appointed investigators as "activists"? Seems you don't believe there were really any issues or they were overblown.

If Lumumba's intentions are to sue the club so what? If he had an entitlement to sue then why shouldn't he pursue it?

Collingwood were very good and supportive to Davis and Krakouer because they could play footy. Let's not pretend they did anything to support them from any altruistic motives.

 

[VinnieB]

Have you got some special inside knowledge Vinnie??

If so what is it?

Or too top secret to share?

Very simple really. The changes that have been made have been disclosed over the past 6 months. Including Anderson stating that the schedule includes reconciling with past players from the 30 April. Lumumba had been claiming it hadn’t been done prior because he either chose not to listen, or he was intent in stirring up trouble. I’m sure you can research yourself. Although, you don’t seem to have a track record of knowledgeable posts.

Remember when you were bashing Collingwood’s midfield because main clearance guy, Adams, was ranked in the 30s for clearances, when you failed to disclose he only played 14 games and was in fact in the top 6 in the league on average clearances per game? Just one of many of your failings.

But at least give it a go this time and maybe ask for some help.

 

[VinnieB]

You are correct. But on the final point, if former players have been wronged then they will likely be entitled to $$ payouts. If they are entitled then there is no reason they shouldn't pursue it.

Well get ready because Rioli and every other past and present AFL player who felt they were subject to rascism will be coming out and suing their club. If you think over the past 15 years (and why only go back that far), that no player at any other AFL club were called names etc, then you are very naive.

 

[RichLeMonde]

You are correct. But on the final point, if former players have been wronged then they will likely be entitled to $$ payouts. If they are entitled then there is no reason they shouldn't pursue it.

All true, but if he feels he has been wronged, then he should just go ahead and pursue damages.

But he’s not doing that. He’s attempted to engage with the club, and then stormed out. It seems to me, if he approached the club full of ideas about how things could be made better for players of colour moving forward, then there’s no reason why that would be a legal minefield, and the club could work with him in that. But the very fact that he describes meeting with Collingwood’s full legal team immediately suggests that whatever he was proposing was indeed a legal minefield for the club, and so probably was about them acknowledging all specific instances of perceived past wrongdoing, which of course they would be very circumspect about doing, given the potential legal ramifications.

If he wants to seek damages he should seek damages. Let the courts decide the matter.

If he genuinely wants to help the club create a better environment for players of colour, he needs to focus on how that could be done in the present and the future, which should hold no legal concerns for CFC.

But what he seems to be doing is going to the club trying to get them to admit all instances of past wrongdoing, and then storming away from the process when the lawyers won’t go along with that. That is speculation on my part, but I can’t think of any other reason why Collingwood would be so lawyered up when they’re meeting with him to discuss his plans.

I don’t see how any of that can help Collingwood create a better environment for players of colour.

 

[HairyO]

What like Rioli who won't return to the HFC?

That is a personal grievance with an individual, not a club issue.

He hates Kennett. His only issue with Hawthorn is that Kennett is there.

 

[branedotorg]

so thanks to this thread i now know that Lumumba is attention seeking, and crazed.

What personality defects do Leon Davis

Leon Davis

Age

42

Ht

177cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.5

3star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.6

2star

HB

1.4

2star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.4

3star

G

0.4

3star

, Andrew Krakouer, Joel Wilkinson

Joel Wilkinson

Age

32

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.4

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.4

5star

have?

 

[branedotorg]

so thanks to this thread i now know that Lumumba is attention seeking, and crazed.

What personality defects do Leon Davis, Andrew Krakouer, Joel Wilkinson have?

And Cyril Rioli is a lone-gunman style outlaw

 

[Stax on the mill]

theres a disappointing but utterly unsurprising amount of "the black man is wrong" going on in this thread

Nice try, but quite disingenuous and dishonest. If anything there is a rational “just because he’s a black man, doesn’t automatically mean he’s telling the truth, nor that he’s not a neurotic, vindictive individual”.

You, the OP and your fellow travellers automatically accept everything this deeply flawed person has claimed, whilst automatically believing the worst of the CFC.

 

[Profop]

Nice try, but quite disingenuous and dishonest. If anything there is a rational “just because he’s a black man, doesn’t automatically mean he’s telling the truth, nor that he’s not a neurotic, vindictive individual”.

You, the OP and your fellow travellers automatically accept everything this deeply flawed person has claimed, whilst automatically believing the worst of the CFC.

Collingwood themselves released a report saying everything he had claimed was true……

He has other players who have come out and backed his comments. I think we’re well past any reasonable person being able to state he’s making anything up