List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016

[anshell]

People make the mistake in believing that players move to other clubs to chase success and win premierships.Does anyone really believe that Beams signed up with the Brisbane Lions to win premierships?

 

[unplugged]

Do Essendon need a ruckman?

 

[Hagla]

Yes he isn't a flog.

No one at the helm during the saga is involved with the club any longer, he'll get a very fat compensation payment at some point moving forward and the only people that it hurts by doing that are his current teamates plus the fans.

People looking for that result are like the Richmond fans that thought Treloar was over the line. It isn't happening!

They have ruined his career to some extent, I think you'd be pretty narrow minded to call him a flog for doing it. He'll always be remembered for the drug saga at Essendon as will the other 30 odd players involved. I imagine the stress and embarrassment itself would have been bad enough without the stigma he'll have for the rest of his career and beyond.

The AFL wouldn't allow it anyway.

The AFL would have a tough job denying it, there's a reason the rule was created and you won't find many more clear cut cases than this one. Essendon haven't been able to uphold their end of the contract.


"The collective bargaining agreement states if a player can prove a breach of contract their club has not been able to remedy, they are able to terminate their contract.

The club must then immediately terminate their contract, allowing them to move to their club of choice as a delisted free agent."

 

[Mr Bombastic]

Do Essendon need a ruckman?

They've got Leuenberger, so yes they do.

 

[10571z]

I still dont see how Hurley can not just leave as a delisted free agent. Surely you could argue with the AFL if the club cant provide me with medical records of everything they gave me (which we know they cant) he can simply void the contract as they clearly haven't held up their end.

Marley Williams, Witts, Cloke

I see as all going

I heard we were keen for Walters.. If so involving Marley in that trade would be excellent.

Witts? Probably wont get much. I would keep him if we could as a back up ruck.

Cloke? God knows what we would get. Lin Jong straight swap would be pretty good IMO>

 

[Temploar]

They've got Leuenberger, so yes they do.

It's weird, a few years ago I thought Leuey would become one of the better ruckman in the competition. I guess Brisbane ruined him.

 

[Scodog10]

The AFL wouldn't allow it anyway.

On the one in a million chance that it gets that far I don't think they'll be able to stop it. My understanding is the grevence tribunal is indepndent and established by the commission. It wouldn't be made up of ex players that can be influenced, but lawyers who'll deal with the facts presented to them.

Given I seriously doubt Essendon will stand in his way of leaving I'm not entirely sure the tribunal will look kindly on him just saying the club didn't hold up their end of the contract so I want out by these means. Basically even if he does take that path it isn't anywhere near assured that it'll get up!

 

[Temploar]

Cloke? God knows what we would get. Lin Jong straight swap would be pretty good IMO>

2 years ago you would have been killed for saying that on here,
Problem is, now it doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

 

[Fruit]

Freo would be desperate for a forward with Pav retiring. Would it be possible they would be interested in Cloke along with a (for example) Marley Williams type and another younger player for an earlier pick?

 

[Hagla]

On the one in a million chance that it gets that far I don't think they'll be able to stop it. My understanding is the grevence tribunal is indepndent and established by the commission. It wouldn't be made up of ex players that can be influenced, but lawyers who'll deal with the facts presented to them.

Given I seriously doubt Essendon will stand in his way of leaving I'm not entirely sure the tribunal will look kindly on him just saying the club didn't hold up their end of the contract so I want out by these means. Basically even if he does take that path it isn't anywhere near assured that it'll get up!

Actually, Essendon not upholding their end of the contract is 100% grounds for terminating the contract if he can prove it... They don't take "the vibe" of it into consideration.

 

[Temploar]

Freo would be desperate for a forward with Pav retiring. Would it be possible they would be interested in Cloke along with a (for example) Marley Williams type and another younger player for an earlier pick?

I couldn't see Marley going back to WA with all the heat he's had over there.

 

[10571z]

2 years ago you would have been killed for saying that on here,
Problem is, now it doesn't seem like such a bad deal.

Was just talking about something similar the other day. 2011/13 we would have gotten a first rounder + a good player for Cloke. Now pick 30 seems decent

 

[CFC2010]

The AFL would have a tough job denying it, there's a reason the rule was created and you won't find many more clear cut cases than this one. Essendon haven't been able to uphold their end of the contract.


"The collective bargaining agreement states if a player can prove a breach of contract their club has not been able to remedy, they are able to terminate their contract.

The club must then immediately terminate their contract, allowing them to move to their club of choice as a delisted free agent."

If it is such a clear cut process as you state why hasn't any Bomber player gone down that path?

I will say it again because the AFL won't allow it.......this saga has gone on long enough the AFL won't let something like this open up the wound again.

 

[Scodog10]

They have ruined his career to some extent, I think you'd be pretty narrow minded to call him a flog for doing it. He'll always be remembered for the drug saga at Essendon as will the other 30 odd players involved. I imagine the stress and embarrassment itself would have been bad enough without the stigma he'll have for the rest of his career and beyond.

The AFL would have a tough job denying it, there's a reason the rule was created and you won't find many more clear cut cases than this one. Essendon haven't been able to uphold their end of the contract.


"The collective bargaining agreement states if a player can prove a breach of contract their club has not been able to remedy, they are able to terminate their contract.

The club must then immediately terminate their contract, allowing them to move to their club of choice as a delisted free agent."

Believe what you like, but I'd be calling him a floggy mercenary if he made that move narrow minded or otherwise.

Stigma hah! He'll rest easy with the massive pay cheque he gets from his new club and the $1 million gift he receives care of Paul Little. Won't happen, but dare to dream i guess...

 

[10571z]

Freo would be desperate for a forward with Pav retiring. Would it be possible they would be interested in Cloke along with a (for example) Marley Williams type and another younger player for an earlier pick?

No way Cloke is moving from Kangaroo Ground i wouldn't think. He would probably honour his contract with the pies if he had no other Victorian offers.

 

[Scodog10]

Actually, Essendon not upholding their end of the contract is 100% grounds for terminating the contract if he can prove it... They don't take "the vibe" of it into consideration.

What vibe? By choosing to ignore the trade procress and going immediately to the tribunal he isn't upholding the terms of his contract. This is really cut and dried I don't even know why you're pressing the point given you asked the question. I answered it emphatically and you still want to debate it...

 

[Hagla]

If it is such a clear cut process as you state why hasn't any Bomber player gone down that path?

I will say it again because the AFL won't allow it.......this saga has gone on long enough the AFL won't let something like this open up the wound again.

Because this is the first year that it's actually become so clear cut, before the bans nobody was officially guilty. The players are currently sitting out for the year, I'd say that's a breach of contract. They'd need to prove the club is at fault but considering it was a club administered program that should be pretty easy.

 

[CFC2010]

Because this is the first year that it's actually become so clear cut, before the bans nobody was officially guilty. The players are currently sitting out for the year, I'd say that's a breach of contract. They'd need to prove the club is at fault but considering it was a club administered program that should be pretty easy.

I get all that I just don't think it will happen.

Who I would back in 100% is Connors. If Hurley says the Pies I can guarantee you he will be a Pie.
He is the best manager in the business.

 

[Hagla]

What vibe? By choosing to ignore the trade procress and going immediately to the tribunal he isn't upholding the terms of his contract. This is really cut and dried I don't even know why you're pressing the point given you asked the question. I answered it emphatically and you still want to debate it...

Because I don't think there is a requirement for the player to entertain trades like you are suggesting. If he wants to terminate his breached contract and leave as a free agent he can if he can prove that the contract has been breached. You are suggesting the tribunal will consider whether or not he's explored his trade options and deny it if they think he's just trying to get somewhere for free (if they get a bad vibe about it all).

 

[soreplums]

First rounder, Keeffe and another pick

 

[Prochard123]

Maybe Cloke+Witts+second rounder for Walters?
Freo could use both of them

 

[MightyPies2010]

I get all that I just don't think it will happen.

Who I would back in 100% is Connors. If Hurley says the Pies I can guarantee you he will be a Pie.
He is the best manager in the business.

I agree, if we convince Hurley he should play his days out at the Pies, this gets done.

Salary Cap space doesn't look like being a problem, and Bucks stated tonight on AFL360 "there is always a way" when asked about how we would come up with a trade for him.

I'm not saying we will land him, but Gee it's going to be a fun trade season again. Hold onto your hats ladies and gentlemen, looks like being a crazy ride!

 

[Scodog10]

Because I don't think there is a requirement for the player to entertain trades like you are suggesting. If he wants to terminate his breached contract and leave as a free agent he can if he can prove that the contract has been breached. You are suggesting the tribunal will consider whether or not he's explored his trade options and deny it if they think he's just trying to get somewhere for free (if they get a bad vibe about it all).

In order to completely veto the trade process he would need to pull the old "restraint of trade" card. I think we're all on the same page that Essendon won't stand in his way if he chooses to leave. With no restraint of trade card to play its a big gamble to choose that tribunal as a pathway whilst completely ignoring the other viable alternative. There's also the say that his manager has and, IMO, Connors is too smart to take that path.

Ultimately if you're as confident as you seem why don't we have a sig bet on it? Personally I'll be happy calling him a floggy mercenary if he's a floggy mercenary in Collingwood colours I just think he's better than that and will choose not to bring things down to that level.

 

[CFC2010]

I agree, if we convince Hurley he should play his days out at the Pies, this gets done.

Salary Cap space doesn't look like being a problem, and Bucks stated tonight on AFL360 "there is always a way" when asked about how we would come up with a trade for him.

I'm not saying we will land him, but Gee it's going to be a fun trade season again. Hold onto your hats ladies and gentlemen, looks like being a crazy ride!

I still remember during the Beams trade when Scott Clayton (GC) said "when Connors says it's not for you then it's not for you"

Connors also got us Ball & Danger to the Cats........like I said the best in the business.

 

[Unknown Identity]

We're not completely without hope of getting a first rounder with a collection of second rounders and the points system in place.

Too many stars have to align imo.

Factor in Hurley actually choosing us and lets face it, i see no reason why we would shoot uo the ladder next season.

Its a 100-1 chance.