Collingwood

[Croweater23]

I have been thinking about this today and not sure whether it is worthy of a new thread but whatever (delete if you must).

I think Collingwood vs Us during the trade period and beyond is a really interesting comparison.

Collingwood were around a similar mark to us last year and, moving forward in the short-term, their list is probably at a similar stage to ours. I know we finished in the 8 and won a final but I think if you take a step back and consider the duration of 215 and the end result they were probably in the same group of 3-5 teams as us.

A lot of posters on here have been unhappy with our trading both this year and in the past, saying we settle for mediocrity too often. Not aggressive enough.

Assuming everything goes through as anticipated, this can be contrasted with Collingwood's approach. They have been aggressive in their pursuit of Treloar, Aish and Howe. All more or less established players who will have an immediate impact on their team. But they'll probably have to give up two first rounders, second rounders + to land them.

I just think it will be interesting in 12-24 months time to see how our strategy compares to that of the Pies, who many would say are (if rumors are true) about to 'sell the farm' to get the talent they want in via the trade period.

Thoughts? Is this a fair comparison? What is the better option? Has free agency evolved the trade period to such a degree that there shouldn't be as huge an emphasis on draft picks as there used to be? Should the Crows be more aggressive in their approach?

 

[Pugsley]

I agree. You've been thinking about it too much [emoji4]

 

[OzSparrow]

Hate the mongrels. Don't care about them and never will. Arrogant tossers.

 

[hippyhippy]

Well if anything... they will be the ones to compare with us in regards to their of field strategy. Sell the future for ready made stars or go to draft. Dont see many teams winning after bringing in massive names... *cough* sydney..

 

[Croweater23]

Well if anything... they will be the ones to compare with us in regards to their of field strategy. Sell the future for ready made stars or go to draft. Dont see many teams winning after bringing in massive names... *cough* sydney..

This is the point of my post, to compare.

I don't see the players they've recruited as ready made stars, but established players.

Hawthorn did okay after bringing in names such as: Burgoyne, Lake, Frawley, McEvoy, Dew during the Clarkson era.

 

[hippyhippy]

This is the point of my post, to compare.

I don't see the players they've recruited as ready made stars, but established players.

Hawthorn did okay after bringing in names such as: Burgoyne, Lake, Frawley, McEvoy, Dew during the Clarkson era.

They also did alright from all the draft picks they got...

 

[Wright Away]

Collingwood won't make the top 8 in 2016, they aren't up to it for whatever reason.

 

[Iron]

I think they've already done their smart drafting. Now they're doing smart trading. Wouldn't underestimate the team they're building down there. They'll be good.

We've sort of dabbled in both but never got a clean 1, 2 punch going which results in our makeshift strategy and some frustration.

 

[Scorpus]

Collingwood won't make the top 8 in 2016, they aren't up to it for whatever reason.

Lack of decent forwards and defenders

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Collingwood will make top 8 next year easily

 

[Croweater23]

Lack of decent forwards and defenders

I think Reid coming along late last year will help

 

[Croweater23]

I think they've already done their smart drafting. Now they're doing smart trading. Wouldn't underestimate the team they're building down there. They'll be good.

We've sort of dabbled in both but never got a clean 1, 2 punch going which results in our makeshift strategy and some frustration.

This is the key. They had a year or two of really strong drafting (Grundy's year and the year after?) and now they seek to be topping up their list with mids through the trade period.

Still think they're lacking down back but I am interested to see whether they progress in 2016.

Do or die for Buckley. It's interesting, because the way he has gone about their list strategy means that anything short of a finals win (or two) will probably mean his head is on the block.

 

[Iron]

This is the key. They had a year or two of really strong drafting (Grundy's year and the year after?) and now they seek to be topping up their list with mids through the trade period.

Still think they're lacking down back but I am interested to see whether they progress in 2016.

Do or die for Buckley. It's interesting, because the way he has gone about their list strategy means that anything short of a finals win (or two) will probably mean his head is on the block.

I don't mind Buckley. Hope Collingwood back him in for the long term. If he can take a premiership side, dismantle it and put together another side that seriously challenges for a flag in 5 or 6 years, he'll have done a superb job.

Compare him to someone like Chris Scott. He also inherited a premiership quality side. Even jagged one in his first year. Then he proceeded to bury his head in the sand and keep all the old players going and even recruited some more! Now they've hit a wall, never really challenged for a flag despite all the high finishes, and now they're facing a rebuild. And yet... Instead of doing it properly they've bought an elite player and several good players.

In denial. Collingwood knew where they were at and responded accordingly. Can see them winning one far sooner than Geelong.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Collingwoods midfield will be scary

Adams , Sidebottom , Treloar , Swan , Pendlebury , De Goey and maybe Aish

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Whether it's right or wrong, Collingwood have been working to a clear plan which started a few years ago with them realising that they didn't have the team to challenge for a premiership.

I'm not sure we have a clear plan. Rather we react to the circumstances we found ourselves in and do the best we can rather than dictate terms. Also hedge our bets to stay competitive (Podsiadly & Betts = NOW, Vince/MCrouch = FUTURE) rather than go all in on a key point in time.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Whether it's right or wrong, Collingwood have been working to a clear plan which started a few years ago with them realising that they didn't have the team to challenge for a premiership.

I'm not sure we have a clear plan. Rather we react to the circumstances we found ourselves in and do the best we can rather than dictate terms. Also hedge our bets to stay competitive (Podsiadly & Betts = NOW, Vince/MCrouch = FUTURE) rather than go all in on a key point in time.

But wouldn't it be fair to say that we haven't been in the same place as Collingwood because of our sanctions. Last year was the first year with a full draft. Where Collingwood may have started their plan two years ago and now topping it up, you could say that this year we are just starting. Our player selection in the draft needs to be well targeted and we will need to follow it up with the draft next year. That would mean our trading in 2017 will be topping up our two years of selective drafts.

Collingwood will have a good year in 2016 and we should be in a position to have a great year in 2018......provided our selection team get it right.

 

[Bonkers000]

Why do we have to land a "big fish"? I'm happy with 2 first rounders going into the draft. So collingwood get treloar and aish, what if we draft 2 more Brodie smiths? What if we land the next nat fyfe? If we hit big with one of our picks we come out equal and still have our first pick next year to play with.

Sure it's alot of ifs and buts, but drafting has a lot more time and effort put into it now a days and the likelihood of a big bust is small.

 

[huludicidal]

Collingwoods midfield will be scary

Adams , Sidebottom , Treloar , Swan , Pendlebury , De Goey and maybe Aish

Chuck in Crisp and Greenwood too. It's a force to be reckoned with for sure.

 

[Pugsley]

Chuck in Crisp and Greenwood too. It's a force to be reckoned with for sure.

Only injuries can derail that midfield.

 

[Wright Away]

Yeah that Collingwood team, full of superstars! How many games did they win against the top 8 this year? 1? The last two years Collingwood have gone 8-3 and then fallen flat on their faces.

Collingwood have a season or two left down the bottom before any possible move back up the ladder.

 

[Pugsley]

Yeah that Collingwood team, full of superstars! How many games did they win against the top 8 this year? 1? The last two years Collingwood have gone 8-3 and then fallen flat on their faces.

Collingwood have a season or two left down the bottom before any possible move back up the ladder.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Obviously Collingwood could be pushing for finals and better next year but let's not forget they only managed one win against a top 8 team last year and lost 8 of their last 10, including losses to Essendon and Melbourne.

While there is reason for their fans to be optimistic about the future, the same can be said of any number of teams from 5-14. Seriously though, who are they displacing from the eight? Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo and West Coast are near certainties for the finals you'd think. That leaves 4 spots open. The other finalists would all fancy their chances on improving on last year, plus GWS, Geelong and Port would all be aiming for a finals berth at the very minimum. I just can't quite see how the Pies fit in there, even with Treloar, Aish and Howe.

 

[Jarman3]

Do or die for Buckley. It's interesting, because the way he has gone about their list strategy means that anything short of a finals win (or two) will probably mean his head is on the block.

They'll probably poach Clarkson Although I reckon Scott Burns probably wouldn't mind sitting in that chair, either.

 

[Mattrox]

But wouldn't it be fair to say that we haven't been in the same place as Collingwood because of our sanctions. Last year was the first year with a full draft. Where Collingwood may have started their plan two years ago and now topping it up, you could say that this year we are just starting. Our player selection in the draft needs to be well targeted and we will need to follow it up with the draft next year. That would mean our trading in 2017 will be topping up our two years of selective drafts.

Collingwood will have a good year in 2016 and we should be in a position to have a great year in 2018......provided our selection team get it right.

We started last year with the clear out and addressing our defensive and Ruck needs.

This year we look to be focusing of skillful players with run.

There is a method. In '12 and '13 we were reactive due to sanctions.

 

[Bring back Bas]

I don't mind Buckley. Hope Collingwood back him in for the long term. If he can take a premiership side, dismantle it and put together another side that seriously challenges for a flag in 5 or 6 years, he'll have done a superb job.

Compare him to someone like Chris Scott. He also inherited a premiership quality side. Even jagged one in his first year. Then he proceeded to bury his head in the sand and keep all the old players going and even recruited some more! Now they've hit a wall, never really challenged for a flag despite all the high finishes, and now they're facing a rebuild. And yet... Instead of doing it properly they've bought an elite player and several good players.

In denial. Collingwood knew where they were at and responded accordingly. Can see them winning one far sooner than Geelong.

Chris Scott won a premiership and Buckley took over a side that was arguably in a better position than Geelong were when Scott came in, and turned into just another bottom 8 side. I can't believe that you think Buckley has done a better job out of the two of them. Right now Collingwood probably do look closer to their next premiership assault but that does not guarantee that they will win one. Meanwhile Chris Scott will always have a premiership under his belt.

This is the key. They had a year or two of really strong drafting (Grundy's year and the year after?) and now they seek to be topping up their list with mids through the trade period.

Still think they're lacking down back but I am interested to see whether they progress in 2016.

Do or die for Buckley. It's interesting, because the way he has gone about their list strategy means that anything short of a finals win (or two) will probably mean his head is on the block.

This is a bit of a myth. Since 2010 Collingwood have drafted:
2010: Fasolo, Farmer, Ugle, Seedsman, Stubbs
2011: J.Pain, Gault, Witts
2012: Grundy, Broomhead, Ramsey
2013: Scharenburg, Freeman, Langdon, Barrett

It is a bit early to judge the 2014 crop but of that list from 2010-2013 only Fasolo, Witts, Grundy and Langdon look like being reasonable players for them. Broomhead and Ramsey look like they will more than likely be busts and it is a bit hard to comment on Scharenburg. There are certainly no stars in there and none of the rest will be on their list next season. They have had a lot of early picks in the last few years but I wouldn't say that they have drafted well. They have picked a some good players in trades during that time but that is probably balanced out by the players that they have lost.

In my opinion they are a very overrated team. Their midfield will probably never be elite because as guys like Aish and De Goey really come on, Swan and Pendelbury will be on the way out. In saying that it should still be decent. They have a good depth of flanker type players but both there forward and backline are pretty ordinary and don't look like they will get any better with the players currently on their list.

Adelaide are in a better position in the short term and also in the long term in my opinion.