Expansion Complete list of Tasmanians in the AFL

[Professor Knowall]

Complete list of Tasmanian footballers with AFL (let me know if I’ve missed anyone!)

In the early 1960’s, the Tasmanian state team beat Victoria!

But now, compare this with the 50 Queenslanders with AFL clubs -
Name, AFL club, Tasmanian club origin

1. Justin Sherman, Brisbane, Clarence (Hobart)

2. Tom Collier, Brisbane, Laurdedale (Hobart)

3. Simon Wiggins, Carlton, Glenorchy (Hobart)

4. Aaron Joseph, Carlton, Glenorchy (Hobart)

5. Sam Iles, Collingwood, Clarence (Hobart)

6. Brodie Holland, Collingwood, Glenorchy (Hobart)

7. Tom Hislop, Essendon, Burnie

8. Andrew Lee, Essendon, Burnie

9. Jason Laycock, Essendon, East Devonport

10. Sam Lonergan, Essendon, Launceston

11. Tom Bellchambers, Essendon, North Launceston

12. Brodie Moles, Geelong, Glenorchy (Hobart)

13. Simon Taylor, Hawthorn, North Hobart

14. Grant Birchall, Hawthorn, Devonport

15. Mitch Thorp, Hawthorn, Ross (North??)

16. Alex Grima, Hawthorn, Evandale (near Launceston)

17. Brad Green, North Launceston (via Manchester United)

18. Colin Garland, Melbourne, North Hobart

19. Russell Robertson, Melbourne, Burnie

20. Bradie Rawlings, North Melb, Devonport

21. Matthew Richardson, Richmond, Devonport

22. Jack Riewoldt, Richmond, Clarence (Hobart) (don't confuse with Nick)

23. Peter Street, Western Bulldogs, Glenorchy (Hobart)

 

[Snuka]

IIRC Justin Sherman also Tasmanian.

Good work on all the lists too Prof.

 

[TassieSaint]

Sherman (Lions), Thorp (Hawthorn), Lee (Essendon), Alex Grima (Hawthorn). Tom Collier is from Hobart, whilst Tom Bellchambers was recruited from North Launceston not Lauderdale (Lauderdale is in the south). There's a few more who were born here but moved and were recruited from interstate

 

[Father Jack]

Dunno about Lauderdale being in Launceston.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Thanks fellas - sorry for shortchanging Tassie by 4 players! Player list and geography has been duly amended.

If there's no other's wev'e missed, I make it 12 players from the South, 10 from the North (counting Ross as North?)

 

[Doctor Jolly]

At 23 players, they can barely make a squad.

I think both QLD and NSW would beat them in a SOO comp.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I agree - there's little doubt that both Queensland and NSW would defeat this list in SOO, as they already have more depth (much more for Qld). With the greatly increased junior participation numbers now growing up in NSW/Qld, expect this difference to greatly increase in the future.

In addition, apart from having only 1/15th of NSW's population, Tassie's long term population demographics aren't favourable - they lose too many of there young adults to the mainland, whilst new residents moving their from interstate tend to be older retirees and/or tree hugging, sports hating greenies.

These are some of the factors why the AFL are choosing second sides in NSW and Qld ahead of a new Tasmanian team.

 

[BlueDevil]

i think Brad Green was a Northern Bomber (North Launceston)

 

[kenrosewall]

While 23 isn't enough to make up a squad, we could always supplement the team with ex-AFL players who are still playing (and are young). Having said that, of course a Tassie team would not need to be made up of only Tasmanians.

Cameron Thurley (Devils)
Tim Hazell (Devils)
Alex Gilmour (Devils)
Ben Beams (Myrtleford)
Luke Shackleton (Devils)
Heath Neville (Devils)

Then there's also Ian Callinan and Brett Geappen who should have been drafted.

Chuck in Nick Riewoldt, Ricky Petterd, even David Neitz (believe he was born in Ulverstone)

Add Nathan Grima (Kangaroos) also to your list

 

[Hoops]

At 23 players, they can barely make a squad.

I think both QLD and NSW would beat them in a SOO comp.

what about V NT?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

i think Brad Green was a Northern Bomber (North Launceston)

Not sure on this one. He's from George Town, and went to Launceston Grammar. That much is definite, and he may well have played at North Launceston. Any Glenorchy link would be very short term.

Ross is generally the dividing line between north and south. Where both Cascade and Boags are available, and the Examiner and the Mercury are both on sale - the general signals on which half of the island you happen to be in.

 

[Father Jack]

Not sure on this one. He's from George Town, and went to Launceston Grammar. That much is definite, and he may well have played at North Launceston. Any Glenorchy link would be very short term.

Ross is generally the dividing line between north and south. Where both Cascade and Boags are available, and the Examiner and the Mercury are both on sale - the general signals on which half of the island you happen to be in.

I was always very proud of being from the same end of the island as Boag's.

Less so with the Examiner.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Yeah I played junior football with Green. He was a bomber for at least two years.

 

[CAS79]

Sadly I have to concurr. That is an ordinary list of Tasmanian’s in the AFL.

Someone has pointed out Tasmania’s demographics being unfavorable for team production and as of about 1990 there was reports of about 40 Tasmanians playing in the AFL and some real ball winners at that.

Sadly the state has regressed and most of these guys are nothing more than second stringers.

 

[Rob]

Sadly I have to concurr. That is an ordinary list of Tasmanian’s in the AFL.

Someone has pointed out Tasmania’s demographics being unfavorable for team production and as of about 1990 there was reports of about 40 Tasmanians playing in the AFL and some real ball winners at that.

Sadly the state has regressed and most of these guys are nothing more than second stringers.

The decline in the number of Tasmanians probably says more about the health of footy in other states than in Tassie.
Pre-AFL, all decent Tassie players went to Victoria. The same couldn't be said of other states. Now, all the best players play in the AFL. Combined with the increased participation rates in NSW and Queensland, and unless playing numbers in Tassie increased accordingly (which was always going to be hard to do given the stagnant population), then their representation in the league was always going to drop.

 

[TassieSaint]

The decline in the number of Tasmanians probably says more about the health of footy in other states than in Tassie.
Pre-AFL, all decent Tassie players went to Victoria. The same couldn't be said of other states. Now, all the best players play in the AFL. Combined with the increased participation rates in NSW and Queensland, and unless playing numbers in Tassie increased accordingly (which was always going to be hard to do given the stagnant population), then their representation in the league was always going to drop.

Lies. Ever hear of John Leedham, Geoff Long, Barry Strange, Don Gale, Jim Ross, Stuart Spencer, Bob Withers, Graeme Lee, Jim Leitch or Des James? Probably not, because they all stayed in Tassie and decided not to play VFL. They also all made the All-Australian team at State of Origin carnivals. Plenty of great players stayed here to play. Anyway, all the best players have been playing AFL since the 90's, yet in the 90's Tasmania had way more players, and better players, than today. The reason Tasmania's numbers are dropping is because local footy is dieing and the AFL are doing nothing about it.

 

[Rob]

Lies. Ever hear of John Leedham, Geoff Long, Barry Strange, Don Gale, Jim Ross, Stuart Spencer, Bob Withers, Graeme Lee, Jim Leitch or Des James? Probably not, because they all stayed in Tassie and decided not to play VFL. They also all made the All-Australian team at State of Origin carnivals. Plenty of great players stayed here to play. Anyway, all the best players have been playing AFL since the 90's, yet in the 90's Tasmania had way more players, and better players, than today. The reason Tasmania's numbers are dropping is because local footy is dieing and the AFL are doing nothing about it.

OK, *more* decent Tassie players went to Victoria.

Fcuk me, the point is still valid. But don't l et that stop you from having a whinge.

The standard of the comp increased from a state based regional comp to a national one. It's a simple as that. There are a lot less Victorians as well in the league, I think it's now under 50% and dropping. Doesn't mean footy in Victoria is screwed.

 

[TassieSaint]

OK, *more* decent Tassie players went to Victoria.

Fcuk me, the point is still valid. But don't l et that stop you from having a whinge.

The standard of the comp increased from a state based regional comp to a national one. It's a simple as that. There are a lot less Victorians as well in the league, I think it's now under 50% and dropping. Doesn't mean footy in Victoria is screwed.

That's was what I was saying though, I don't think your point is valid. The reason there are less Tasmanians is because footy here is dieing. Back in the day we did give two shits about the VFL, we only cared about the local stuff and as such had extremely strong local competition and great players. Nowadays our local comps are struggling, as is football in general and that is why there are less Tasmanians playing in the AFL. If a national competition had been formed pre-80's there would have been a hell of a lot more Tasmanians in it the 23, so I really don't see where you're coming from.

ps Sorry for having a whinge mate, I guess it's stupid of me to upset at the plight of footy in what was once a proud football state.

 

[Marklar_33]

That list would be a lot greater if Tasmania had an AFL side... and AFL players playing in the AFL hasnt a lot to do with having an AFL side in Tasmania. Bet they didnt look at the equivalent stat in 1982 and 1987...?

 

[goal sneak]

B: Wiggins, Garland, Lee
HB: Birchall, Thorp, Lonergan
C: Green, Holland, Iles
HF: Riewoldt, Richardson, Sherman
F: Robertson, Laycock, Moles
R: Taylor, Rawlings, Hislop
I: Street, Collier, Bellchambers, Grima

 

[Alex_au]

Why are people speculating that a current shortage of Tasmanians in the AFL is a reason why Tasmania should not have its own AFL team?

West Coast
Fremantle
Sydney
Brisbane

Have their fair share of victorians.

My own club Hawthorn has a rich history of recruiting Western Australians.

 

[Plogs]

Ross is generally the dividing line between north and south. Where both Cascade and Boags are available, and the Examiner and the Mercury are both on sale - the general signals on which half of the island you happen to be in.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Craig Davis is from Ross. Had a good chat to him at a charity golf day on Good Friday.
And i hope this does not turn into another bitter North V South dispute but Boags is far more accessible than Cascade is in the North. It's on tap in most joints in the south & rarely seen on tap in the north. Plus in pubs & bottlo's down south it is in your face. Better marketing perhaps, or better beer (i'm on the latter).

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

That is true, you can find Boags more readily in the south - but the signs out the front of pubs are still Cascade and its always Cascade that is the main seller in southern pubs.
Its still a readily visible dividing line.

Tassie football is in a dreadful state for a number of reasons. Some of which are simple demographics; more Tasmanian borns live on the mainland than in Tasmania. And this is even larger among the 25-40 age group, who had the choice between permanent unemplyment in Tasmania and decent (some six figure) incomes on the mainland. The "recession we had top have" that hit Australia generally between roughly 1990 and 1992 was a depression in all but name in Tasmania (and most regional areas, obviously with drought there some rural areas that haven't yet recovered) from roughly 1987 to 2003. A whole generation of potential footballers disappeared from the state, country towns of a few hundred suddenly were unable to field a team and merged or died. (In 1986 the Fingal Valley had three football clubs, St Marys, Fingal and Avoca in what turned out to be its final year; it now has one. This is repeated ad nauseum over the state.) Even East Devonport, in one of the two competitions (one northern, one southern) that pretends to be a top level league, is struggling to find enough players to field three teams.
Tasmania's population share has dropped from around 3% when I left, 10 years ago, to under 2.5% now. At least its now rising in absolute terms again, but still dropping as a percntage of the nation. And the economy is dropping on that basis even faster; already Tasmania's GDP is under 2% of the nation's.
the AFL dominates Tasmania like it dominates no other state, not even Victoria. There is no money left for local footy, as the few dollars available in the state are already spent on TV advertising during AFL broadcasts - except the ones used for bribing Hawthorn.

AFL Tasmania's focus on the Devils doesn't help. Killing off the state league, rather than fixing it, decreased the standard dramatically - from one below, but comparable with, othervstate leagues; to the top levels being something below most country leagues in Vic, SA and WA. It also means that half the season there is nothing above bush league played anywhere in the state; and at no time is there anything above that played between Tasmanians (maybe the SFL v NTFL game). The push for a renewed state league is doomed, not because its a state league; though that in itself would make it hard to sell to clubs bitten once by the TFL experience; but because its being done for the wrong reasons, to prop up the Devils; and the wrong way, nine new clubs in addition to existing clubs at a time when clubs are dying due to a lack of player numbers.
"Postcard" Peter Hodgman did well with the introduction of the SFL, his ego then got in the way and wanting to make his idea the top league in the state he wantonly set about undermining the TFL - which was alrady precariously situated and needed saupport from (then) Football Tasmania.

As to the level of AFL player numbers, its worth noting that in the Origin games in the late 80s and early 90s the Tasmanian side included TFL players - who weren't disgraced by any stretch. While there are a number of reasons for the decline in the number of Tasmanians at the elite level; a declining player base being one along with an increase in interest and numbers from everywhere else; the death of local footy and destruction of the state league (and cutting back of the Mariners under age program didn't help junior development either). AFL funding to the state has been negligible for a long time, whet there is all goes to the Devils, or is specified by the AFL to go towards juniors. Very little funding from the AFL or AFL Tasmania seems to make it to clubs, or local leagues.

But the player number issue means nothing when it comes to an AFL team, there's a national draft. Players don't have a choice for the first two years of their career. Keeping them in Tasmania after that might be a struggle though, its not exactly got the nightlife, the weather or the media and/or promotional money making opportunites that might make younger players want to stay. It does have good beer, at both ends of the island, though.

What is an issue is the complete lack of money, the total absence of major corporate management and decision makers (just 1 of the ASX top 200 is based in Tas, Gunns, many don't even have a state office; what hurt the NBL Devils was that local management said "yes" to sponsorship deals and got knocked back in Sydney or Melbourne, the same is liekly with an AFL club - a naming rights sponsor should be no proble, though with less income; secondary sponsors could be a real struggle) to make buying the "suck up to a client" corporate box a worthwhile investment, a single population centre of any size (people will travel a couple of times a year but not 10 or 11), a market that advertisres don't care about because its small and the expendable income is well below national average, and the fact that ALL available money already goes into AFL coffers (via very indirect means; it goes to regional TV networks, who pay a little more to the major networks who don't broadcast into Tasmania and therefore have less interest, who presumably factor in that income in deciding what bid for the broadcast deal). Why would they want a team that they will have to prop up to the tune of many millions of dollars (more than the Gold Coast, but that should decline over time - though I have doubts about GC ever being self-sustaining) to win over precisely ZERO people, and whose chances of growth are very close to zero, while the costs of operating a club are increasing all the time?

 

[Professor Knowall]

Excellent post, Howard Littlejohn!!

... Add Nathan Grima (Kangaroos) also to your list ...

Nathan Grima now added - brings Tasmania’s total up to 24. Also Brad green amended from Hobart to Launceston. That makes 12 from the North, 11 from the South and one from the middle (Ross).

While 23 isn't enough to make up a squad, we could always supplement the team with ex-AFL players who are still playing (and are young). Having said that, of course a Tassie team would not need to be made up of only Tasmanians.
Cameron Thurley (Devils)
Tim Hazell (Devils)
Alex Gilmour (Devils)
Ben Beams (Myrtleford)
Luke Shackleton (Devils)
Heath Neville (Devils)
Then there's also Ian Callinan and Brett Geappen who should have been drafted. ..

Luke Shackleton spent 2 years at Collingwood. I remember him well (along with Billie Morrison) - both were fat arrsed wombats who ate all the bread rolls. Pity he only started to take his footy seriously after he was delisted.

...Chuck in Nick Riewoldt, Ricky Petterd, even David Neitz (believe he was born in Ulverstone)

Sorry, but I’m not adding players just because they were born in Tasmania then moved when only small children - it’s where they grew up and played their junior football that counts.

That those familes moved North as youngsters is stark evidence of the problem with Tassie's long term population demographics - losing too many of there young adults (and there children) to the mainland, whilst new residents moving their from interstate tend to be older retirees and/or tree hugging, sports hating greenies. And that’s just one of the problems eloquently outlined by Howard Littlejohn.

 

[Chuq]

Some of which are simple demographics; more Tasmanian borns live on the mainland than in Tasmania. And this is even larger among the 25-40 age group, who had the choice between permanent unemplyment in Tasmania and decent (some six figure) incomes on the mainland.

It is a bit of a catch-22 isn't it - if all of the people who left over the years were to return, Tasmania would then have a population of 750k - which which change the state immensely, for the better, to such a degree that they would have better opportunities for work, entertainment, etc.

As a 29 year old who was born here, has stayed here, has a decent paying job, without a uni degree, and as someone who is vocal about "Tasmanians rights" - ie. us missing out on things the other states take for granted - I tend to look at all the people who left as those who give up easily - you can either stay here and support your state, or take the cheating, easy way out and give up on it. (Nothing personal intended to ex-pat Tassies here, just a general view)

It also annoys me when I see bunches of students protesting over some development - I think to myself, what do they care about employment/industry here? Most of them are just going to piss off to Perth/Melbourne/Canberra/Sydney in a couple of years, it's not going to effect them.

This has got really off topic, sorry, but your statement inspired me