Corona virus, Port and the AFL. Part 4.

[wallumi]

I keep reading Waluigi

That's right. A next gen Mario cart character.

 

[pastmyprimus]

FFS stop prosecuting via innuendo and spit your gripe out.

So you didn't read prior posts?

 

[GoTheMightyCrows]

Well there is a view that kids are safe from covid. This helps to debunk that view. An important message to get out and that was one of the aims of the quoted epidemiologist. The article didn't quote the top 5 causes. That doesn't change the important message

I'd most likely agree with you if the full picture was painted.

 

[wallumi]

Citing a half-arsed meta-analysis of half-arsed (and since debunked) studies was enough for me.

I can’t believe a South African doctor who hasn’t practised medicine since 2013 and is championing an Egyptian study full of holes, isn’t being taken seriously!

Hopefully you'll have a sound reply to my response to your cherry picked 'debunk'. Otherwise you're going to look like a XXXXS sized arsehat.

By the way, medical research is still medicine. Do you understand the categorical distinction between clinical practise and research? They can overlap but they need not. Your incisive glibness is both a gift and a handicap.

 

[wallumi]

Influenza kills between 300K-600K people globally in any given year, circulating freely throughout the population without any restrictions in place.

Covid killed approx 3 million people globally in its first year, WITH restrictions. There would’ve been many more deaths with no restrictions in place. As in, millions more.

Take this, Google virus reproduction numbers and you’ll pretty quickly figure out 1. why the coronavirus is a much more serious problem than the flu and 2. why the vaccine regime is more stringent i.e. it’s proportional to the problem.

If this doesn’t sink in, well, there’s not much else I can really do for you within the limits of my patience.

None of that changes the data point I posted. I still have no idea as to its relevance to that preceding discussion.

So you've coughed up what you particularly mean.
Can you now explain its meaning in context to the previous discussion.

I think you're playing 'GOTCHA". Prove me wrong.

 

[wallumi]

I don’t know how accurate the data she is referring to is.
I see no reason why ivermectin is not being promoted if it actually is effective.

Anecdotes and flawed or tiny studies don’t really cut it.
And hospitals are already using a cocktail of generic drugs to treat covid19 so science is not against doing such a thing, so where is your conspiracy?
Perhaps the ivermectin promoters have done themselvesva disservice by trying to pawn off fraudulent studies but at least there are now some proper studies, randomised controlled, in the pipework.
Listen to this. I came upon it a few weeks back. Review and critique of some ivermectin papers. Illuminating and pretty damning really.

There's no useful link there to anything

 

[Sewer de Lance]

WTF does Craig Kelly have to do with anything?
If he takes a sh*t every day does that compel you to constipate yourself?

You had me in stitches with that line. Are you new to this forum? A word of warning, do not waste your time debating science with woke zealots, it’s a lost cause. They’ll fervently continue to uphold the ridiculous CV-19 narrative that our morally bankrupt governments & prostitute MSM outlets continue to propagate until their dying breathe.

 

[FishingRick04]

Video


Press article connected

Redirect Notice

 

[FishingRick04]

I had my second jab about a week ago. A day after, my shoulder felt like someone put a .22 bullet in. But went away after a day.

No other side effects. I'm ready to go for concerts and footy, and more importantly hopefully i can help lesson symptoms and protect a few elderly i have around me.

I want to remove my vaccine so they won’t allow me to go to the footy

 

[raptalia]

On NINE this morning they had a graphic that showed that going to prison in Victoria was not permitted if you were unvaccinated.

 

[Festerz]

I take that as a no. Past posts provided an explanation. You are a classy fella

But take a look at how he has manipulated, dominated and redirected the direction of this thread in just a few days.

Not sure what social media platform this 'wallumi' character has been booted off in recent days to warrant him turning his attention to us but out of nowhere here he is - posting crap filled with flatulent verbiage designed to dazzle us with the appropriated wisdom of others, none of it passing even the basic test of peer reviewed evaluation.

As another poster commented, this thread has turned into an online version of a Sky News Special.

 

[Harlott]

There's no useful link there to anything

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

Is this useful?

 

[FishingRick04]

Ivermectin isn’t a highly effective drug for treating COVID-19 - Science Feedback

Scientific evidence doesn’t support the use of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19. Clinical trials must be designed and executed appropriately to show the efficacy and safety of a given drug for treating a particular disease. Clinical trials that show beneficial effects of using ivermectin...

healthfeedback.org

“However, there are several issues with Lawrie’s meta-analysis. It wasn’t peer-reviewed, unlike published studies in scientific journals, and several of the studies used by the FLCCC and included in Lawrie’s review have also not been peer-reviewed[3-5].

The lack of peer review means that scientists with relevant expertise, such as epidemiologists and biostatisticians, haven’t independently reviewed the research. Peer review is an important step in the scientific publishing process, as it helps authors identify and correct substantial errors or shortcomings in their studies. It can also help to determine the quality of a given study. For example, some publications may contain very strong scientific evidence and novel discoveries, while others may have only weak research to back up their hypotheses. Overall, peer review can help prevent the spread of exaggerated or unsupported scientific claims.

Both Lawrie and the FLCCC cited three ongoing clinical trials testing the effects of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19 that produced inconclusive results, as well as a report by Juan Chamie, a data analyst with no training in biology or medicine. Overall, presenting these studies and clinical trials as evidence of ivermectin’s effectiveness as a treatment for COVID-19 without acknowledging their limitations is inaccurate and misleading.

Notably, a preprint study by Elgazzar et al., used in Lawrie’s meta-analysis, was withdrawn in July 2021 after numerous issues with the study were detected. Among these issues were plagiarism, potential data fabrication, and data that was inconsistent with the study’s protocol. These issues were uncovered by student Jack Lawrence, who analyzed the preprint for a class assignment.”

Tess Lawrie = Confirmation bias 101.

Didn’t the Covid vaccines skip some of these steps also? Pretty sure they didn’t do the double blind peer review study? They may have by now

 

[wallumi]

There is an interesting study that suggests the correlation between education (as a proxy for intelligence) and vaccine skepticism is a U shaped curve - the well educated are generally very pro vaccine (witness Canberra generally and the health bureaucrats and other earnest bores in this thread) whereas the outliers in both directions - the poorly educated and those with phd’s - tend to be the most skeptical. I suggest that Wallumi and Craig Kelly would be sitting at opposite ends of the U curve

Interesting analysis and easy to configure to experience.

The blue collars and regionals are fed up with being f*cked over and immensely cynical of 'the system', but are easily led into wrong directions.
Enter Craig Kelly and his corpulent patron. Opportunists both who'd energetically espouse ritual sh*t eating if it advanced their interests. They are trying to pick up the baton from One Nation.

Phd's, on balance, have a relatively developed sense of identity, assurance and mobility that allows them some latitude for self-expression within very oppressive compliance system relative to both employment, grants and status.

Mediocre (vast majority) academics and professionals are precarious in self-esteem and tenure. Both cohorts are for sale in as much as they'll not walk a plank for any ideals vs security of identify and income.

You're right in assuming I'd not invite Craig Kelly to dinner.

 

[OneGreatClub]

There's no useful link there to anything

Do you not have access to podcasts?
Click on the link.
It is a very detailed discussion about how these scientists reviewed and pulled apart several ivermectin studies.
Quite entertainimg too. Worth a listen if you are able or can be bothered to.
I respectfully read your links by the way.

 

[FishingRick04]

Interesting analysis and easy to configure to experience.

The blue collars and regionals are fed up with being f*cked over and immensely cynical of 'the system', but are easily led into wrong directions.
Enter Craig Kelly and his corpulent patron. Opportunists both who'd energetically espouse ritual sh*t eating if it advanced their interests. They are trying to pick up the baton from One Nation.

Phd's, on balance, have a relatively developed sense of identity, assurance and mobility that allows them some latitude for self-expression within very oppressive compliance system relative to both employment, grants and status.

Mediocre (vast majority) academics and professionals are precarious in self-esteem and tenure. Both cohorts are for sale in as much as they'll not walk a plank for any ideals vs security of identify and income.

You're right in assuming I'd not invite Craig Kelly to dinner.

I’d struggle to invite any politician to dinner.

 

[Lagooner]

None of that changes the data point I posted. I still have no idea as to its relevance to that preceding discussion.

So you've coughed up what you particularly mean.
Can you now explain its meaning in context to the previous discussion.

I think you're playing 'GOTCHA". Prove me wrong.

It puts your data point into context, which turns out to be very helpful because it is otherwise very misleading. Even if we accept that Covid and the flu have identical kill rates (they don’t but let’s say they do) the outrageous reproduction rate/contagiousness of the coronavirus means that it kills a lot more people.

Bigger problems require bigger solutions, so you can’t reasonably expect the Covid vaccine program to operate under the same framework as the flu shot. The measures have to be proportional to the issues in order to be effective.

And now we have come full circle, all the way back to “the flu shot isn’t mandatory.” Yeah well turns out they put bigger brakes on a LandCruiser than they do on a Yaris. Go figure.

 

[OneGreatClub]

You had me in stitches with that line. Are you new to this forum? A word of warning, do not waste your time debating science with woke zealots, it’s a lost cause. They’ll fervently continue to uphold the ridiculous CV-19 narrative that our morally bankrupt governments & prostitute MSM outlets continue to propagate until their dying breathe.

Ah, once they use the word woke you realise they are a total ignoramus.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Didn’t the Covid vaccines skip some of these steps also? Pretty sure they didn’t do the double blind peer review study? They may have by now

Steps were not skipped, some steps were undertaken concurrently.

 

[wallumi]

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

Is this useful?

Not really.
It is a PR release not a research paper.
It claims that Ivermectin has no positive effect on Covid 19, but it provides no reference to any study in that regard.
It mostly dwells on the contra-indications of the drug and does refer to a number of studies it alleges demonstrate this. However it does not cite any of these. This disallows a reading of the primary data to see the context of those contra-indications. This is significant given the broad usage, long record and general acceptance of Ivermectin as a safe medication.

Research papers always carry a conflict of interest statement. This release doesn't need one as the conflict is self-evident.

 

[Harlott]

Not really.
It is a PR release not a research paper.
It claims that Ivermectin has no positive effect on Covid 19, but it provides no reference to any study in that regard.
It mostly dwells on the contra-indications of the drug and does refer to a number of studies it alleges demonstrate this. However it does not cite any of these. This disallows a reading of the primary data to see the context of those contra-indications. This is significant given the broad usage, long record and general acceptance of Ivermectin as a safe medication.

Research papers always carry a conflict of interest statement. This release doesn't need one as the conflict is self-evident.

So I manufacture something for a certain use. Someone thinks it may have another use. I strongly suggest for their own health they don't use it for that purpose, backed up by my scientific staff even though I could make a shitload more money for my investors. Why would I do that?

 

[wallumi]

I think the reproduction number is more important than the CFR in discussions comparing covid and influenza. R0 for influenza is just over one while R0 for the delta is around 6. Delta spreads exponentially if left unchecked. The flu is nowhere near as contagious. Even if the CRF rates are the same you end up with an order of magnitude more covid deaths in unvaccinated populations because of the exponential spread. But we know covid is more deadly than the flu which makes covid even a bigger killer.

Just as important are numbers regarding deaths due to poor medical methodologies and deaths with Covid vs deaths from Covid. Italy has just drastically downshifted its numbers on that latter metric.

When you throw those aggregate numbers around be mindful of the Ioaniddes study finding a global IFR of .15%. I previously noted the IFR as <1% to accomodate localised variations.

 

[wallumi]

COVID now 6th-leading cause of death in kids 5-11, SC Health Dept. says

Covid's the sixth leading cause of deaths for kids 5-11 in the US.

Assistant State Epidemiologist Dr. Jane Kelly says the delta variant hit young people very hard, harder than the original strain.

For children who have already had COVID-19 and have recovered, Kelly said is still recommended that they get vaccinated.

“The level of natural immunity after infection varies considerably and is lower in people who had mild disease or who were asymptomatic compared to those who had experienced severe disease,” she said.

Studies in the United States and in other countries have shown a person with a prior infection can cut their risk of re-infection in half by getting vaccinated, she said

COVID now 6th-leading cause of death in kids 5-11, SC Health Dept. says (msn.com)

This is a classic. Press releases from state officials are given the status of fact whilst published medical research papers with non-conforming findings are put into the griller.

Show me the data.

 

[wallumi]

Which one? wallumi is currently executing one of the most convoluted gish gallops of all-time.

Instead of confecting arcane accusations, maybe give or require a precise answer?

That said, I've finally squeezed the issue definition from the band of brothers and its practicably irrelevant as expected.

 

[wallumi]

Well there is a view that kids are safe from covid. This helps to debunk that view. An important message to get out and that was one of the aims of the quoted epidemiologist. The article didn't quote the top 5 causes. That doesn't change the important message

How does an unreferenced press release by a state official help to debunk anything?