News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread II

[Snake_Baker]

Excellent post.

Even the initial comment you responded to had politicised it by throwing scare quotes around the term.

As you said, why on Earth would Russia want to medically compromise its own population?

In my experience of looking at research proposals, I was stunned to find that Russia (Brazil was another one which disproportionately appeared to pop up) seems to provide monetary support to a significant number of really good medical studies across the Western world. No politics infused with that money, as they would often be accused of, just lots of grants to help fight cancer and other diseases. Meanwhile a lot of these researchers couldn't get a dime from their own governments.

They have a strong scientific culture and it wouldn't surprise me if they were first to it.

IMO, Russia is a superior country to many western countries, including ours.

They have a strong scientific culture and it wouldn't surprise me if they were first to it. There are risks, as there always are, but if it has satisfied the general scientific scrutiny that gets applied to observing side effects as you've outlined here, well I guess that's all they can do, short of observing it for years.

It becomes a matter of practicality with millions dying, so if it has gone through the necessary protocols with good results and no significant side effects, then it's reasonable to release it for use. The alternative scenario being that millions more could die if the medial community procrastinates.

What the article refers to as "phase III trials" is designed to weed out the outliers, such as genetic & comorbidity susceptible patients, but if trials found it worked well with relatively healthy recipients, then there's no need to be overly critical with wide spread release, and for all I know Russia has limited it's use for only healthy members of it's community. I see no reason to believe this vaccine is dangerous, as it's basiclaly just two variants of chopped up pieces of the Sars-CoV-2 spike receptor that are injected in to patients so they can manufacture the respective S protein specific antibodies who will seek out the virus in vivo, bind to it's S protein receptors that it needs to gain entry in to cells, rendering it inert/activate the complement pathway/recruit T cells to come and wipe out the ****er.

 

[Themanbun]

IMO, Russia is a superior country to many western countries, including ours.

I'm not as rosy eyed about the western world as many of us living here, and I've never been to Russia so I can't comment on there specifically.

But, I've seen the general brow-beating that the Western politicians and media give towards other countries in Eastern Europe (some of which I have lived in and on many personal metrics I think are better than Australia, some they are not), so I'm aware that I need to take a lot of what I read in English-speaking newspapers about that part of the world with a grain of salt. It's always loaded with politics and prejudice.

 

[MagicDaw]

IMO, Russia is a superior country to many western countries, including ours.



It becomes a matter of practicality with millions dying, so if it has gone through the necessary protocols with good results and no significant side effects, then it's reasonable to release it for use. The alternative scenario being that millions more could die if the medial community procrastinates.

What the article refers to as "phase III trials" is designed to weed out the outliers, such as genetic & comorbidity susceptible patients, but if trials found it worked well with relatively healthy recipients, then there's no need to be overly critical with wide spread release, and for all I know Russia has limited it's use for only healthy members of it's community. I see no reason to believe this vaccine is dangerous, as it's basiclaly just two variants of chopped up pieces of the Sars-CoV-2 spike receptor that are injected in to patients so they can manufacture the respective S protein specific antibodies who will seek out the virus in vivo, bind to it's S protein receptors that it needs to gain entry in to cells, rendering it inert/activate the complement pathway/recruit T cells to come and wipe out the ****er.

Agree Snake, no point in endangering their people.
Lots of other countries stockpiling phase 3 trial vaccines and it wouldn't surprise me if another 2 or 3 vaccines will be rolled out in the next few months.
The other thing about rolling it out earlier is that it might not be that good.
Protection might be lower than expected.
Would that be a bad thing?
Maybe, maybe not, but if I can reduce spread of Covid19 somewhat and it's not dangerous it's hard to argue against the Russian rollout.
If you were a company trying to make money from vaccines in any other time it would be a completely different story!

 

[giantroo]

278 and 8 deaths today

 

[Snake_Baker]

Agree Snake, no point in endangering their people.
Lots of other countries stockpiling phase 3 trial vaccines and it wouldn't surprise me if another 2 or 3 vaccines will be rolled out in the next few months.
The other thing about rolling it out earlier is that it might not be that good.
Protection might be lower than expected.
Would that be a bad thing?

I very much doubt they would bother releasing it if it didn't have widespread positive response.

 

[7577969923]

I very much doubt they would bother releasing it if it didn't have widespread positive response.

The fact they haven't released any data from trials is a worry. The risk of getting the Covid19 vaccine wrong and undermining global trust in vaccines as a whole is arguably a bigger threat to world health than Covid19, especially if it is just a matter of timing.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The fact they haven't released any data from trials is a worry.

Have you searched through the literature?

The trials would certainly be made available to prospective purchasers.

The risk of getting the Covid19 vaccine wrong and undermining global trust in vaccines as a whole is arguably a bigger threat to world health than Covid19, especially if it is just a matter of timing.

I doubt it.

 

[7577969923]

Have you searched through the literature?

The trials would certainly be made available to prospective purchasers.



I doubt it.

I saw reporting on it last night indicating that they have refused to release the phase 1 and 2 trial data. There was also commentary that suggested there is no way they have had enough time to conduct phase 2 trials. Caveat emptor, I guess.

You don't think a large proportion of the global population rejecting vaccines would pose a major health risk?

 

[Snake_Baker]

I saw reporting on it last night indicating that they have refused to release the phase 1 and 2 trial data.

Plenty of corporations do the same thing. At the end of the day all they have to please is the government authorities.

There was also commentary that suggested there is no way they have had enough time to conduct phase 2 trials. Caveat emptor, I guess.

Proof. Where is it? All I see is innuendo.

You don't think a large proportion of the global population rejecting vaccines would pose a major health risk?

Rejecting as in not taking them or taking them and they are inneffective? Can you tidy up this question?

 

[7577969923]

Proof. Where is it? All I see is innuendo.



Rejecting as in not taking them or taking them and they are inneffective? Can you tidy up this question?

Rejecting as not taking them. We know that the anti-vaxx nutters will take anything they can and use it as propaganda in their war against science or common sense. In the scenario where a vaccine is rushed out without adequate testing for safety or efficacy and cause a major health issue, either through side effects of the vaccine or an escalation of covid because the vaccine failed, the anti-vaxxers will pump that for all it is worth. Could do enormous damage to vaccine adoption and see the resurgence of vaccine-preventable illnesses.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Rejecting as not taking them.

Well yeah, evolution tends to weed out idiots mate.

 

[7577969923]

Well yeah, evolution tends to weed out idiots mate.

The only problem is they take plenty of others with them.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The only problem is they take plenty of others with them.

Not if they take the vaccine first.

 

[Caracas]

Not if they take the vaccine first.

It was a different time, I know. However, the USSR were the first into space, after all. So, there's no doubting their scientific credentials/potential.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It was a different time, I know. However, the USSR were the first into space, after all. So, there's no doubting their scientific credentials/potential.

Huge contributors to the classical sciences.

Their reputation suffered from engaging the U.S. in a psychotic arms race where they couldn't compete and ended up with major quality control issues..

 

[75-77-96-99]

278 and 8 deaths today

apparently we should start to c better results by the weekend

hope thats right

 

[Only Forwards]

278 and 8 deaths today

From the rolling 7 day average, this figure will present the 7th data point in a row of a fall in cases.

Indicates an trend and that the second wave peak is behind us.

 

[The acurate one]

From the rolling 7 day average, this figure will present the 7th data point in a row of a fall in cases.

Indicates an trend and that the second wave peak is behind us.

Let's hope so, people are starting to fray at the edges.

 

[Only Forwards]

Let's hope so, people are starting to fray at the edges.

It means the response is working.

It doesn't mean we can stop doing what we are.

It's about the equivalent of being able to say Sam Wright just took an intercept mark in the elimination final.

 

[The acurate one]

It means the response is working.

It doesn't mean we can stop doing what we are.

It's about the equivalent of being able to say Sam Wright just took an intercept mark in the elimination final.

I agree, but had the numbers stayed high people my well have said * it , I've had enough.

 

[BTRAIN2]

IMO, Russia is a superior country to many western countries, including ours.

Such a boomer thing to say.
Why do you hate everything so much? Things haven't been that hard for you to say that you think Russia is superior to Australia surely?
I reckon you're living in the past and pining for something that's been and gone, just a hunch.

 

[Ether]

Standing there filming while his girlfriend cops a hiding. Who said chivalry is dead?

You're saying he should have dragged the cop off her? That would have gone well.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Such a boomer thing to say.
Why do you hate everything so much? Things haven't been that hard for you to say that you think Russia is superior to Australia surely?
I reckon you're living in the past and pining for something that's been and gone, just a hunch.

I have to assume that you're a teenager, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[BTRAIN2]

I have to assume that you're a teenager, and I'll leave it at that.

You’re assumption is well and truly incorrect but it rings true with your many patronising assumptions on this board.
Everything you post or respond to is with a patronising tone.
You don’t know anymore than any other poster buddy. You’re just an average punter

 

[MagicDaw]

I very much doubt they would bother releasing it if it didn't have widespread positive response.

They shouldn't but I am not so sure!

Will have a chat to one of my immunologist colleagues regarding this vaccine and will let you know what she thinks/knows about this.