Craigy v Viney stoush

[icrow32]

I haven't read the 'article' yet but will have a gander when I get home from work.

What a gutless snivelling little prick Rucci is. I wonder if his employers approve of him posting crap on Bigfooty and then lifting that crap on to their newspaper.

Its a typical Rooch article, and he is clearly starting to set his sites on NC, it will be a long drawn out process though. He even gives Bigfooty an indirect mention in the article.

Surely someone on here can raise this with him tomorrow on 5AA just to see what his reaction is.

 

[Crow-mo]

The claim that Craig removes flair and individuality from players so that they can fit a system is rubbish as well. This has been true for exactly one player - Mattner - whereas some of the players with the most flair in the competition have thrived under Craigy, people like Burton (having a career best year before injury) and McLeod (until this year) haven't exactly been told to tone it down to fit a system.

don't think you're right here. at all.

Craig hasn't really encouraged flair at all, and in his defence the results haven't been bad. There is no way Burton or McLeod have flourished any more under craig, than before. hell if McLeod thrived under anyone it was ayres.

most of your post overall stabby, seems to be more wanting to disagree with this guy, more than anything else.

leaving aside the over-emotive aspects, he raised some valid points.

 

[Crow-mo]

If it is Rucci, even though I'm not his biggest fan, he should just register as himself and post.

For all of this bullshit, I actually wouldn't mind hearing his thoughts and opinions properly, and attempting to either change them or at least understand them.

I agree with you until the bolded part.

you started with the preposition of him being wrong, which isn't fair. you haven't alluded to the possibility of agreeing, which undermines any reason for him to post as himself.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

As bad as Ruc is, I didn't really see a problem with the article. He was correct in that we have been soft at times this year. The game plan has been ugly at times and our skills have gone backwards. And I agree that all Craigs bleating about the need not to drop off regardless of the personnel on the park and the clubs obssession with not mentioning the word "Rebuild", they have effectively made a rod for their own back. Because of this, some AFC supporters now have unrealistic expectations given the current state of our list.

Don't know about the Commetti comments though. I would be surprised if he said that.

 

[Southerntakeover]

hell if McLeod thrived under anyone it was ayres.

In the beginning, certainly, however its easy to forget just how disinterested and lost he looked towards the end of Ayres reign. People were pretty much calling it a wrap before Craig took over, and he mysteriously returned to AA form.

 

[jo172]

hell if McLeod thrived under anyone it was ayres.

To quote one of your favourite anti-Craig verbatims surely that was just in Mcleod's nautral progression? He played his best footy from the 4th to 9th year of his career, do you disagree this would have happened under any coach?

 

[Crow-mo]

To quote one of your favourite anti-Craig verbatims surely that was just in Mcleod's nautral progression? He played his best footy from the 4th to 9th year of his career, do you disagree this would have happened under any coach?

oh c'mon

there is no comparison between bock and rutten making the team at the age of 20, in their 3rd season off the rookie list - and McLeod being moved into the midfield, and playing his best footy after 7 seasons at age 25.

what's more it has nothing to with the point raised, it is not true to suggest he flourished under craig.

 

[cmndstab]

don't think you're right here. at all.

Craig hasn't really encouraged flair at all, and in his defence the results haven't been bad. There is no way Burton or McLeod have flourished any more under craig, than before. hell if McLeod thrived under anyone it was ayres.

most of your post overall stabby, seems to be more wanting to disagree with this guy, more than anything else.

leaving aside the over-emotive aspects, he raised some valid points.

I didn't say Craig has encouraged flair, but I certainly disagree with the constant assertions that he has discouraged it. McLeod you could argue either way but he hasn't had his flair extinguished until perhaps the last 12 months when age has taken its course. Burton was having a career best year last year.

My post was so vitriolic because I disagreed with almost everything the guy wrote, not the other way around.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I didn't say Craig has encouraged flair, but I certainly disagree with the constant assertions that he has discouraged it. McLeod you could argue either way but he hasn't had his flair extinguished until perhaps the last 12 months when age has taken its course. Burton was having a career best year last year.

My post was so vitriolic because I disagreed with almost everything the guy wrote, not the other way around.

I thought Macca played some of his best football in 2005 and 2006, actually he played some sublime football during this period.

 

[Crow-mo]

I didn't say Craig has encouraged flair, but I certainly disagree with the constant assertions that he has discouraged it.

why? isn't the proof in the pudding?

McLeod you could argue either way but he hasn't had his flair extinguished until perhaps the last 12 months when age has taken its course. Burton was having a career best year last year.

no you can't argue McLeod. he was best in league calibre in 2000/01. his creative role on half back has elongated his career, it has not lifted his game per se. the twilight years and credit macca has received have been valedictory, but in no way has it nearly touched his best. he has found a way to be valuable as father time catches up.

Burton was not having a career best year, he was having a great year but he had played up forward with great success before. he had his flair absolutely stifled on a wing.

My post was so vitriolic because I disagreed with almost everything the guy wrote, not the other way around.

don't agree. your evidence was poor, and not really accurate - well below your usual standards. I am a fan, but there is a real disconnect in your arguments versus conclusions - it reads like you were trying to backfill the argument in your end point.

a prime example is craig's reluctance to have players take the game on. the issue isn't whether its happened (plainly it has) but what the impact was, and whether it was a net win for us - i think you could probably mount a fairly strong argument that this is a question of style not effectiveness, at which point its not necessarily a perjorative.

arguing that basic underlying fact however, is a more emotional response than a rational one.

put another way, the point is 'what of it/so what' not black = white.

 

[Vader]

I think there is truth to both of your arguments.

McLeod had his career best years under Gary Ayres in 2000-01, including the year where he was robbed of a Brownlow. However, by the end of Ayres' reign he was clearly jaded and was no longer performing to the standards he had previously set.

Neil Craig came along and McLeod was revitalised. His performances in 2005 & 2006 were a return to his vintage years. Arguably not quite to the level of 00-01, but not far behind.

Today we once again see a McLeod who appears jaded and disinterested. Like the good commander, I'm prepared to accept that this is more due to age than anything else (such as having his flair tempered).

 

[-CG-]

McLeod said at the Brisbane breakfast this morning that because of his knee surgery in the off season, that he's still a few months behind the other players. I thought it was an interesting argument, certainly something I hadn't thought of before.

 

[jenny61_99]

I also had a chat with him at the breakfast and he said he's still loving his footy and is excited about the "new blood" in the side. We've asked him the "how much longer" question before and this is the first time he's said "I'll see where I'm at at the end of this year"... previously he answered the magic "couple of years".

His knees did look good though - certainly in comparison to the rock melon last year!

 

[albyplus]

You know what, I'm going to be bold here but I reckon if Craigy is going to get us out of this hole he needs to be bold.

Put Bungy up to half forward and let him wreak havoc

 

[cmndstab]

That's not exactly a long term solution though.

 

[marvin]

That's not exactly a long term solution though.

It might be, if it gives his successor (Petrenko?) an extra half season to bed down the role as running half back.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It might be, if it gives his successor (Petrenko?) an extra half season to bed down the role as running half back.

Agree with this

Tough gig for Petrenko at the moment. On and off the bench and trying to pinch hit in the graveyard small forward role which is one of the most hot n cold positions on the ground. He played as a small/running defender at the Eagles. Would love to see him released into this role.

 

[L_Maximus]

It might be, if it gives his successor (Petrenko?) an extra half season to bed down the role as running half back.

I think this idea has merit, but I don't think it will happen. IMHO this will be McLeod's last year, so he'll probably play the season out at half back.