Cricket Discussion - Part 2

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western royboy said:
.... If I am totally honest it's probably a more common theme than not amongst all of the Captains in my cricket lifetime (and I effectively start with GS Chappell) - the stand out exception being Mark Taylor. Of that group he was the only one that had a career outside the game prior, the rest have already been career cricketers from a young age. Do we need some more balance in their lives? It's going to be hard to achieve in the current age but it wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.
Click to expand...

As I watched Steve Smith's presser last night, it was not hard to have some empathy for him, but I also had an its time to tough up now Steve feeling. No that's doesn't mean I think he is soft for crying, it means I think he should use this 12 months to toughen up and go and live in the real world. Gideon Haigh said he left school at 15 to become a cricketer which means whilst life hasn't always been easy, it has been somewhat sheltered from the real world.

Some people say what is he going to do for 12 months what does he do for money? He could go and spend 4 or 5 months picking fruit. They always need fruit pickers. Outdoors just like cricket, but have to work hard physically, sometimes even in a team and see the fundamentals of life - food production. Go spend a couple of months cleaning toilets wouldn't do him any harm. Go and spend 3 or 4 months up with Phil Hughes' old man and work with the cattle that Phil Hughes wanted to raise when he quit cricket. Go and look after them, maybe get close to them and then have to go thru the psychological challenge of knowing they are going to arbitrators to get slaughtered, maybe even go there and see and learn about the whole meat processing industry. Once again, learn some fundamentals of normal life. That will make him a better person and maybe even better cricket and leader if he ever gets the captaincy duty again at any level.

And the other 2 involved can do something similar.
 
Interesting story on the back page of the Fin Review's long weekend paper. The online headline is only slightly different to the paper one. This was written on Wednsday night before Boof stood down. The author is scathing of a lot of people in his article - especially those being sanctimonious in the Oz media and overseas, but he leaves his biggest criticisms for Boof

Darren Lehmann the problem in Australian cricket's boofy culture
This time four years ago, I was in Cape Town with Graham, watching one of the best matches of Test cricket in its storied 141-year history. With Africa's late summer sun and R18 ($2) pints of Castle as our fuel, we sat through 15 sessions at Newlands - transfixed at deep square leg as Morne Morkel peppered Michael Clarke's upper body from around the wicket, the Aussie captain sustaining fractures en route to three figures - until an absolutely cooked Ryan Harris gallantly ran in on one leg to demolish the Proteas tail and secure a spectacular series victory in the fifth day's dying light. The late Phil Hughes (on light duties as 13th man) was our wing man in the evenings, then brought us Gatorades at the boundary fence in the mornings. What a cracking kid he was.

Four years feel like forty. Worthy elders – Harris, Chris Rogers, Brad Haddin – are gone, their status now held by an idiot punk, David Warner, and a head coach (and selector) whose mission was plainly to outlast the squad's sure-footed members, if not rid it of them, leaving his authority unchallenged, certainly not by his young, pliable captain. Sorry, former captain. And Newlands, a picture-book coliseum at the foot of Table Mountain, will never again be remembered as the scene of Australian fortitude and distinction, only of corruption.
......
That James Sutherland on Wednesday cleared Lehmann to continue as coach beggars belief. Even the incontrovertible fact that he sent the 12th man onto the field to warn Bancroft the jig was up is enough to send him packing, let alone the rest.

Five years ago, the night we lost the second Ashes Test at Lord's, Boof walked into the bar at the team's London hotel and sat down with Graham, me and a bunch of others. He ordered two beers (the second presumably required the moment the first was drained) and while demolishing a Big Mac and a box of McNuggets, he addressed me by the homophobic sobriquet "shirtlifter", then referred to Usman Khawaja, one of his batsmen in that match and the first and only Muslim to wear the Baggy Green, a "shoe-bomber" (the first drop has never managed to cement himself in Lehmann's side).

As a player, you'll remember the South Australian left-hander was suspended for calling a Sri Lankan player a "black c***" after he was dismissed in an ODI. Is this really the kind of man we want presiding over the Australian cricket team? And is it any wonder we find ourselves here?

By their characteristic inaction, Sutherland, Peever and the board clearly think so. A cricketer who knows the difference between playing hard and playing unfair, Justin Langer cannot be installed fast enough.....
http://www.afr.com/business/sport/d...ralian-crickets-boofy-culture-20180328-h0y307
 
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Lawnchair Larry said:
Would love Mike Hussey as the next coach.
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He'd be my pick. Qualified as a science teacher, so was trained to impart knowledge to others young than him, worked so diligently on all aspects of the game and knew so much about the game's history that he got the nickname Mr Cricket, had the constant heartbreak of getting close, but not close enough for about 10 years and then when he finally gets a go at 30 years of age, is mature enough to handle it and takes his chances and finishes up as a great, as he averages over 50 in tests and just under 50's in ODI and cherishes the opportunities he got. He left the game at international level on top at his choosing, not hanging on. I know I linked it on the last page but this article he wrote on the Players Voice website the other day is outstanding.

https://www.playersvoice.com.au/michael-hussey-truly-remembered-for/#EpCSjpHbmRb6FtKR.97
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Interesting story on the back page of the Fin Review's long weekend paper. The online headline is only slightly different to the paper one. This was written on Wednsday night before Boof stood down. The author is scathing of a lot of people in his article - especially those being sanctimonious in the Oz media and overseas, but he leaves his biggest criticisms for Boof

Darren Lehmann the problem in Australian cricket's boofy culture
This time four years ago, I was in Cape Town with Graham, watching one of the best matches of Test cricket in its storied 141-year history. With Africa's late summer sun and R18 ($2) pints of Castle as our fuel, we sat through 15 sessions at Newlands - transfixed at deep square leg as Morne Morkel peppered Michael Clarke's upper body from around the wicket, the Aussie captain sustaining fractures en route to three figures - until an absolutely cooked Ryan Harris gallantly ran in on one leg to demolish the Proteas tail and secure a spectacular series victory in the fifth day's dying light. The late Phil Hughes (on light duties as 13th man) was our wing man in the evenings, then brought us Gatorades at the boundary fence in the mornings. What a cracking kid he was.

Four years feel like forty. Worthy elders – Harris, Chris Rogers, Brad Haddin – are gone, their status now held by an idiot punk, David Warner, and a head coach (and selector) whose mission was plainly to outlast the squad's sure-footed members, if not rid it of them, leaving his authority unchallenged, certainly not by his young, pliable captain. Sorry, former captain. And Newlands, a picture-book coliseum at the foot of Table Mountain, will never again be remembered as the scene of Australian fortitude and distinction, only of corruption.
......
That James Sutherland on Wednesday cleared Lehmann to continue as coach beggars belief. Even the incontrovertible fact that he sent the 12th man onto the field to warn Bancroft the jig was up is enough to send him packing, let alone the rest.

Five years ago, the night we lost the second Ashes Test at Lord's, Boof walked into the bar at the team's London hotel and sat down with Graham, me and a bunch of others. He ordered two beers (the second presumably required the moment the first was drained) and while demolishing a Big Mac and a box of McNuggets, he addressed me by the homophobic sobriquet "shirtlifter", then referred to Usman Khawaja, one of his batsmen in that match and the first and only Muslim to wear the Baggy Green, a "shoe-bomber" (the first drop has never managed to cement himself in Lehmann's side).

As a player, you'll remember the South Australian left-hander was suspended for calling a Sri Lankan player a "black c***" after he was dismissed in an ODI. Is this really the kind of man we want presiding over the Australian cricket team? And is it any wonder we find ourselves here?

By their characteristic inaction, Sutherland, Peever and the board clearly think so. A cricketer who knows the difference between playing hard and playing unfair, Justin Langer cannot be installed fast enough.....
http://www.afr.com/business/sport/d...ralian-crickets-boofy-culture-20180328-h0y307
Click to expand...
Lehmann is a good bloke, he has been great for the Australia Team and took over when it was an absolute ******* circus under Micky Arthur and Michael Clarke. Arthur's take is getting air time now because we've got a crisis - but he was not the man to lead the team (and neither was Michael Clarke...but that's a different story..) and put us back to the top of the tree. It is time for him to move on, but I think those stepping up to put s**t on him lack an understanding of how the system works. I can recall chatting to him with my two young boys at a Ryobi Cup Final when coaching Queensland, his approach was very simple and basic, we've all got flaws and right now everyone is looking for the silver bullet but in my opinion, Lehmann leaves with his head high, ultimately the players have to take the rap. Sutherland needs to take his lead and move on quietly as well. His time is well and truly up.
 
western royboy said:
Lehmann is a good bloke, he has been great for the Australia Team and took over when it was an absolute ******* circus under Micky Arthur and Michael Clarke. Arthur's take is getting air time now because we've got a crisis - but he was not the man to lead the team (and neither was Michael Clarke...but that's a different story..) and put us back to the top of the tree. It is time for him to move on, but I think those stepping up to put s**t on him lack an understanding of how the system works. I can recall chatting to him with my two young boys at a Ryobi Cup Final when coaching Queensland, his approach was very simple and basic, we've all got flaws and right now everyone is looking for the silver bullet but in my opinion, Lehmann leaves with his head high, ultimately the players have to take the rap. Sutherland needs to take his lead and move on quietly as well. His time is well and truly up.
Click to expand...
Mickey Arthur wrote a piece for Players Voice site.

https://www.playersvoice.com.au/mic...t-aussie-cricket-culture/#2c0PDG2S5MZORbK8.97
Unfortunately, it was always going to end like this. Despite generational change, independent reviews and too many behavioural spotfires to list, Cricket Australia and the national team had demonstrated no real willingness or desire to improve the culture within their organisation from season to season. That could lead to only one conclusion.

An explosion.

A deterioration of standards that would culminate in an incident so bad, so ugly, that it would shame the leaders of the organisation into taking drastic action to change the culture, or risk alienating fans, sponsors, broadcasters and other stakeholders. It gives me no pleasure to say this. Indeed, for the period between 2011 and 2013 it was my job, as national team coach, to make the very changes I just mentioned were needed. That I wasn’t able to advance that cause disappoints me. I am not for a moment saying I was blameless. There are decisions I would change if I had my time again. But there were other factors at play, factors that have long been associated with Australian cricket. Factors that came to a head at Newlands......
Read more at https://www.playersvoice.com.au/mic...t-aussie-cricket-culture/#kv5fYVdfyAVHeHOw.99
He writes more under 3 headlines The Problem With The Line, The Lessons of Homework-Gate and Repairing The Damage.
 
The Wanderers is an unique venue - high altitude - short boundaries - generally fast track.

If there's anything in the pitch and we get inserted it could be over quickly. You'd like to think we might be able to have a bowl first and let the Chadd do his thing and let everyone else settle into the brave new world.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
As I watched Steve Smith's presser last night, it was not hard to have some empathy for him, but I also had an its time to tough up now Steve feeling. No that's doesn't mean I think he is soft for crying, it means I think he should use this 12 months to toughen up and go and live in the real world. Gideon Haigh said he left school at 15 to become a cricketer which means whilst life hasn't always been easy, it has been somewhat sheltered from the real world.

Some people say what is he going to do for 12 months what does he do for money? He could go and spend 4 or 5 months picking fruit. They always need fruit pickers. Outdoors just like cricket, but have to work hard physically, sometimes even in a team and see the fundamentals of life - food production. Go spend a couple of months cleaning toilets wouldn't do him any harm. Go and spend 3 or 4 months up with Phil Hughes' old man and work with the cattle that Phil Hughes wanted to raise when he quit cricket. Go and look after them, maybe get close to them and then have to go thru the psychological challenge of knowing they are going to arbitrators to get slaughtered, maybe even go there and see and learn about the whole meat processing industry. Once again, learn some fundamentals of normal life. That will make him a better person and maybe even better cricket and leader if he ever gets the captaincy duty again at any level.

And the other 2 involved can do something similar.
Click to expand...

I would think Steve Smith has made enough money over the past four years to afford a 12 month sojourn in Europe to escape from it all if he wanted to. If Smith stays in Australia he isn't going to be allowed to put the events of the last week behind him and that will not help his mental health. Michael Clarke, Darren Lehmann and Mike Hussey have all expressed concern at the mental issues faced by the banned players so regardless of what they chose to do I hope they get plenty of help. I agree that we want the players repentant but in the right frame of mind to go forward and we do not want them mentally scarred for life.

I haven't read any fine detail re the bans but I assume they only relate to playing any organised form of the game. I assume that the players are still able to train with their State Squads and have a net should they chose.
 
raptalia said:
I would think Steve Smith has made enough money over the past four years to afford a 12 month sojourn in Europe to escape from it all if he wanted to. If Smith stays in Australia he isn't going to be allowed to put the events of the last week behind him and that will not help his mental health. Michael Clarke, Darren Lehmann and Mike Hussey have all expressed concern at the mental issues faced by the banned players so regardless of what they chose to do I hope they get plenty of help. I agree that we want the players repentant but in the right frame of mind to go forward and we do not want them mentally scarred for life.

I haven't read any fine detail re the bans but I assume they only relate to playing any organised form of the game. I assume that the players are still able to train with their State Squads and have a net should they chose.
Click to expand...
They can play Grade Cricket - not sure it would be Kosher turning up at State Squad practice. The risk with Smith is this. As a batsman his technique is unique and relies on hitting a lot of balls because it's all hand eye based and basically uncoachable and should not be coached or trialled by anyone unless they have an eye like a dead fish and hit lots of balls every day.

I have a concern about him ever getting back to the top (where he was) because of the need to constantly hit balls and he's not going to get many over the next 12 months, not the the extent and standard that he once did and a bowling machine wont help him.
 

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Full marks to Joe Root who has made an astute observation. Root has said, 'Australia has sent a message to world cricket'.

This is a good point because I would hate to think the next time it happens, and it probably will, the culprit will cop a one match ICC ban.

The ICC CEO David Richardson has made some noises about tightening up the code of conduct rules and strengthening the penalties for ball tampering. It is welcome but a bit like shutting the proverbial stable door after the horse has gone.

A point well made Joe.
 
LFC2010 said:
Starc is being rested i think.
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From the cricinfo commentary:

9:46am Cricket Australia have released a statement that 'Mitchell Starc has a 'tibial bone stress in his right leg'. He will miss the IPL too. He will return home after the Test for further investigation and assessment.
 
Be careful what you wish for. It might come back to bite you on the arse. From BBC 2013 Ashes series

Ashes 2013: Stuart Broad is a blatant cheat - Darren Lehmann
Australia coach Darren Lehmann has called on fans to make England's Stuart Broad "cry" over his "blatant cheating" in the first Ashes Test.Broad was criticised for deciding not to walk after edging Ashton Agar to slip via keeper Brad Haddin's gloves.

"I hope the Australian public give it to him right from the word go for the whole [Australian] summer," he said.

"And I hope he cries and goes home. I don't advocate walking, but when you hit it to first slip it's pretty hard."

He added in the interview with Australian radio network Triple M: "Certainly our players haven't forgotten, they're calling him everything under the sun as they go past so I would hope the Australian public are the same because that was just blatant cheating."........
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/23778598
 
Delighted for Sayers: having AB Dr Villiers on one's CV as your first Test wicket is no mean feat. And 2 for 64 off 26 overs is an excellent return.

But the Proteas are well in front in the game. If they get to 400 (just 87 runs away, with 4 wickets left), there can only be 1 winner, given our makeshift batting line up.
 
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