Cricket Thread: Ashes done, 4-1

[adelaidecrows]

Can someone explain exactly what the extra grass does?
Do it just keep the ball in tact longer?
Honestly can’t see what difference a few mm would make.

i guess due to the compounding nature of the grass it can create a subsurface the ball can jag off of on unnatural angles. Combine this with any cracks in the pitch and it can make an unplayable surface because the batter cant read the delivery.

In this case im not sure how much the pitch was at fault and poor batting. appeared to be both.

 

[n4sir]

Not very good stats to suggest he's been okay. Terrible average. He's reverted back to his poor form very quickly. Should be a clear drop along with green

Yeah, and soon enough wasting challenges when he is clearly out. (back to his usual MO)

Not a team guy, and no ****ing clue.

That said, Smith has actually been worse this series (apart from Green). Passing off the strike to Richardson at 9 wickets down was doing my ****ing head in today... Why the **** were you doing that? Do you seriously think he's a better batter than you to last out the over, or you are just preserving your average? WTF?

 

[Vader]

Can someone explain exactly what the extra grass does?
Do it just keep the ball in tact longer?
Honestly can’t see what difference a few mm would make.

In terms of pitch longevity, it was designed to help hold the wicket together on days 3/4/5 when the weather was forecast to be considerably hotter, resulting in the pitch drying out and starting to crack up. This was rendered completely moot, when the Test ended well inside of 2 days.

In terms of playability, it causes the ball to "grab" more when the ball makes contact with the ground. This can result in more movement off the seam.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Not very good stats to suggest he's been okay. Terrible average. He's reverted back to his poor form very quickly. Should be a clear drop along with green

im sure there is someone in the BBL averaging 20 off 15 deliveries the media is pushing for a test call up. The BBL is the nations form guide after all.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yeah, and soon enough wasting challenges when he is clearly out. (back to his usual MO)

Not a team guy, and no ****ing clue.

That said, Smith has actually been worse this series (apart from Green). Passing off the strike to Richardson at 9 wickets down was doing my *ing head in today... Why the * were you doing that? Do you seriously think he's a better batter than you to last out the over, or you are just preserving your average? WTF?

almost certainly preserving his average there. hands down he didnt want to get out on this wicket forcing the runs.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Can someone explain exactly what the extra grass does?
Do it just keep the ball in tact longer?
Honestly can’t see what difference a few mm would make.

The ball moves more

As an example, play backyard cricket on a concrete tennis court and the bounce is true and consistent. Switch to grass and it moves around, stays low, kicks up. Once pitches start getting mown down to 6mm or less they effectively act as concrete - "roads"

Plus it means the ball isn't bouncing directly against the abrasive surface every delivery and ageing. There's a cushion so the ball stays new for longer

 

[FR0GGY]

The ball moves more

As an example, play backyard cricket on a concrete tennis court and the bounce is true and consistent. Switch to grass and it moves around, stays low, kicks up. Once pitches start getting mown down to 6mm or less they effectively act as concrete - "roads"

Plus it means the ball isn't bouncing directly against the abrasive surface every delivery and ageing. There's a cushion so the ball stays new for longer

I would have thought the less cushion the more affect the seam would have though

 

[adelaidecrows]

In terms of pitch longevity, it was designed to help hold the wicket together on days 3/4/5 when the weather was forecast to be considerably hotter, resulting in the pitch drying out and starting to crack up. This was rendered completely moot, when the Test ended well inside of 2 days.

In terms of playability, it causes the ball to "grab" more when the ball makes contact with the ground. This can result in more movement off the seam.

the question is just how much of an influence did it have on the test.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The ball moves more

As an example, play backyard cricket on a concrete tennis court and the bounce is true and consistent. Switch to grass and it moves around, stays low, kicks up. Once pitches start getting mown down to 6mm or less they effectively act as concrete - "roads"

Plus it means the ball isn't bouncing directly against the abrasive surface every delivery and ageing. There's a cushion so the ball stays new for longer

So you mean I can blame all my outs in backyard cricket to a shitty pitch? I knew it!

 

[FR0GGY]

In terms of playability, it causes the ball to "grab" more when the ball makes contact with the ground. This can result in more movement off the seam.

But surely it “grabs” more with less grass, ie spin on a drier pitch, such as the sub continents.

 

[adelaidecrows]

But surely it “grabs” more with less grass, ie spin on a drier pitch, such as the sub continents.

The thing with grass pitches is it can all be true. They are unpredictable.

 

[adelaidecrows]

maybe the lesson here is curators just produce grass free wickets from now on. Get back to the natural deterioration of the wicket. if cracks appear so be it.

 

[spenze]

But surely it “grabs” more with less grass, ie spin on a drier pitch, such as the sub continents.

No

 

[Vader]

maybe the lesson here is curators just produce grass free wickets from now on. Get back to the natural deterioration of the wicket. if cracks appear so be it.

I think a lot of it has to do with the advancing technology in the drop-in pitches.

Back in the days before drop-in pitches, the wickets used to deteriorate naturally over the course of the 5 days. When they were first introduced the wickets they produced, the wickets were low & slow. Now they are capable of producing as much bounce as a natural wicket (more in the case of Adelaide), but because they are so finely manicured they simply don't deteriorate anywhere near as much as natural wickets used to do.

Sadly, this lack of deterioration is likely to see the death of spin as an art form - or at the very least, a downgrading of its importance. Spinners are reliant on wicket deterioration for everything from variation in bounce, to cracks to aim at, to areas of "rough" created by the fast bowlers in their follow-through. If none of these are present, or are minimised to a great extent, then spinners just don't have as much natural assistance to work with. They used to come into their own on 4th & 5th day wickets, which is why batting last on a pitch was so difficult - now there is little difference between a 2nd and 5th day wicket, and spinners have been largely neutered.

 

[Vader]

But surely it “grabs” more with less grass, ie spin on a drier pitch, such as the sub continents.

Drier pitches create completely different conditions. On sub-continental decks it's not about grabbing the grass in the surface. It's more about surface variability, with cracks and holes (an extreme form of "rough" resulting from fast bowlers follow through footmarks).

 

[Interloperer]

The WTC plays a big role in the state of pitches too.

It creates an incentive to prepare pitches that get results. In Australia that means heavily favouring pace bowling, which means you also have to prepare a pitch that will get said result quick enough to avoid penalty overs from the slow over rate that comes from an all pace attack.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think a lot of it has to do with the advancing technology in the drop-in pitches.

Back in the days before drop-in pitches, the wickets used to deteriorate naturally over the course of the 5 days. When they were first introduced the wickets they produced, the wickets were low & slow. Now they are capable of producing as much bounce as a natural wicket (more in the case of Adelaide), but because they are so finely manicured they simply don't deteriorate anywhere near as much as natural wickets used to do.

Sadly, this lack of deterioration is likely to see the death of spin as an art form - or at the very least, a downgrading of its importance. Spinners are reliant on wicket deterioration for everything from variation in bounce, to cracks to aim at, to areas of "rough" created by the fast bowlers in their follow-through. If none of these are present, or are minimised to a great extent, then spinners just don't have as much natural assistance to work with. They used to come into their own on 4th & 5th day wickets, which is why batting last on a pitch was so difficult - now there is little difference between a 2nd and 5th day wicket, and spinners have been largely neutered.

ICC in an attempt to even out the contest for teams batting on day 5 have really made things worse.

As for spinners its probably a combination of a lack of skilled elite level spinners coming through and a lack of spin friendly pitches. Up and coming grassroots players arent really going to focus on the skill if there is a lack of selection opportunities.

 

[n4sir]

The ball moves more

As an example, play backyard cricket on a concrete tennis court and the bounce is true and consistent. Switch to grass and it moves around, stays low, kicks up. Once pitches start getting mown down to 6mm or less they effectively act as concrete - "roads"

Plus it means the ball isn't bouncing directly against the abrasive surface every delivery and ageing. There's a cushion so the ball stays new for longer

I would have thought the banning of things like lozenges and gum in the mouth to provide saliva and acids to shine the ball and break down the surface would have done much more to effect swinging on deader pitches.

This seems to literally be related to the green on the wicket dictating everything. As it did in Perth. More seam off the pitch.

 

[n4sir]

Back in the days before drop-in pitches, the wickets used to deteriorate naturally over the course of the 5 days. When they were first introduced the wickets they produced, the wickets were low & slow. Now they are capable of producing as much bounce as a natural wicket (more in the case of Adelaide), but because they are so finely manicured they simply don't deteriorate anywhere near as much as natural wickets used to do.

Sadly, this lack of deterioration is likely to see the death of spin as an art form - or at the very least, a downgrading of its importance. Spinners are reliant on wicket deterioration for everything from variation in bounce, to cracks to aim at, to areas of "rough" created by the fast bowlers in their follow-through. If none of these are present, or are minimised to a great extent, then spinners just don't have as much natural assistance to work with. They used to come into their own on 4th & 5th day wickets, which is why batting last on a pitch was so difficult - now there is little difference between a 2nd and 5th day wicket, and spinners have been largely neutered.

It was really interesting to see at Adelaide Oval (not sure if it was picked up in the telecast) the number of times the ground staff were called out to the field to pound down the footmarks on the pitch to provide an even surface, especially for Starc coming over the wicket as a left hand bowler, who seemed to indicate he had a lot of trouble with his footing.

 

[Peter Doherty]

What is with the obsession they have with playing WA players?

Inglis is not a test player. Green is just as bad, he's a walking wicket.

Richardson had been injured for some time but was rushed into the test team

Is there some commercial driver for getting WA players in the team?

 

[FR0GGY]

Drier pitches create completely different conditions. On sub-continental decks it's not about grabbing the grass in the surface. It's more about surface variability, with cracks and holes (an extreme form of "rough" resulting from fast bowlers follow through footmarks).

I was completely forgetting the ball which would be far more scuffed up.

 

[Vader]

ICC in an attempt to even out the contest for teams batting on day 5 have really made things worse.

As for spinners its probably a combination of a lack of skilled elite level spinners coming through and a lack of spin friendly pitches. Up and coming grassroots players arent really going to focus on the skill if there is a lack of selection opportunities.

It becomes a death spiral.

They made a comment during the coverage, given the Shane Warne commemorations at 3:50pm each day, wondering if he would have even been selected for a game on this pitch. I mentally countered this with the thought that the curators would never have turned out a wicket like this if Warne was still part of Australia's attack.

 

[Vader]

I would have thought the banning of things like lozenges and gum in the mouth to provide saliva and acids to shine the ball and break down the surface would have done much more to effect swinging on deader pitches.

This seems to literally be related to the green on the wicket dictating everything. As it did in Perth. More seam off the pitch.

Lozenges affect swing. Green tops affect seam movement. They're not the same.

Swing is lateral movement through the air, caused by the aerodynamics of the ball, with one side being rougher than the other. Seam is the result of the ball deviating slightly off the pitch.

Green tops can also promote swing, due to a marginally increased humidity level affecting the aerodynamics as the ball flies through the air - but the main effect is seam movement.

Banning lozenges reduces the amount of swing, regardless of the pitch. This is why they were banned in the first place.

 

[adelaidecrows]

It becomes a death spiral.

They made a comment during the coverage, given the Shane Warne commemorations at 3:50pm each day, wondering if he would have even been selected for a game on this pitch. I mentally countered this with the thought that the curators would never have turned out a wicket like this if Warne was still part of Australia's attack.

Warne in his later years and finger problems probably would have struggled but peak Warne would have spun it no problems. The unpredictability of the pitch probably would have made him more dangerous.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Combined XI of series so far.

Now have more Poms than Aussies, but Australia have the 2 clear best performers.

1 Head 437 runs @ 55
2 Crawley 256 @ 32
3 Smith 136 @ 45
4 Root 234 @ 33
5 Brook 232 @ 32
6 Carey 291 @ 49
7 Stokes 183 @ 23; 13 @ 22
8 Starc 151 @ 30; 26 @ 17
9 Carse 19 @ 26
10 Boland 16 @ 23
11 Tongue 12 @ 19