Crows reserve side

[malph]

Naive much. We shouldn't care what each other does yet your people felt then the need to go running to the AFL and tribunal re Gibbs and Burton respectively. You guys are funny. I think Triggy has acted brilliantly in this saga. On more than once occasion he has publically made it clear any benefit you guys get we must also receive.

Oh yes, the SANFL is being kept well in check, one Steven Trigg press conference at a time. The definition of naive has clearly sailed above your jejune little head. Seriously, if Triggy took a dump on your dinner table, you would still call it filet mignon. I have no idea what Gibbs and Burton have to do with this saga, but I guess one man's petty is another man's 'brilliant,' if you know what I mean.

In any case, your ramblings, albeit brief, are not a particularly effective argument against a statement that the two clubs are not always in competition with each other. Time to revisit the word 'naive.'

As for my main concern, its the SANFL. Port Power will always be given some sort of handout to stay a float. I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that the Port Magpies will not receive a huge advantage over their rivals by aligning themselves with an AFL club. It's a ludicrous argument.

Perhaps if we're talking about a stable club, but we're not talking about a competitive team looking for an edge, are we? We're talking about a team that now rarely makes the top five in a nine-team competition, on its knees, with no money. Competitive advantage? Hardly. They just want to play beyond one more season. Did you know that the proposal contained a provision for the SANFL clubs to "revisit" the merger in three years time? That little nugget was probably hidden from your eyes by all the blood rushing to your head.

But no, continue to baste yourself in faux-sanctimony. Pretend that the SANFL will survive just fine without its biggest south-of-Hamra-Homes-Oval drawcard. It won't. There is a reason that the PAFC was denied its 1994 wish of packing up and leaving without having a Magpies remain: the league is quite a great deal less relevant without it. If your primary concern is the SANFL, then you're cheering for the wrong horse, or horses, as it were.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Getting tired of all the Port fan bluster on this board.

 

[aneale]

In any case, your ramblings, albeit brief, are not a particularly effective argument against a statement that the two clubs are not always in competition with each other. Time to revisit the word 'naive.'

That's a stupid comment, the fact you said it twice says a lot. They are ALWAYS in competition with each other, for the sponsorship dollar, which you are sucking at btw, the race for new supporters in the code, the draw - getting round 1 out of the AFL as a home game. Yes at times they both have the same position, it might be the soccer threat for example, a fairer draw, television rights and live against the gate issues but to say that teams in a two team town don't compete at every step of the way is ridiculous. They do, its no different in Perth and the Lions and Swans are going to find themselves in the fight of their lives, more so that they not only have to compete against each other but another profile winter code that competes for supporters.

 

[aneale]

Well weve lost the biggest team in our local competition and PAFC is no closer to becoming viable.



A win all round for South Australian football!!!

I wouldn't bet on that just yet, I have a feeling the Commission will throw them a lifeline, vetoing the vote when it was essentially 8-0 will look odd, but I can still see it happening. I see the vote as a backlash from the Clubs who thought the commission should rule being they are independent and then getting their noses out of joint when Whicker had a tanty and forced them too.

 

[relapse]

I thought this was public knowledge and a statement was put out by Haysman last week confirming it.

So Haysman has come out saying that all the talk about saving the PAMFC is merely just a smokescreen and the only real interest from the PAFC is to gain control of the Prince Of Wales Hotel ???

 

[malph]

That's a stupid comment, the fact you said it twice says a lot. They are ALWAYS in competition with each other, for the sponsorship dollar, which you are sucking at btw, the race for new supporters in the code, the draw - getting round 1 out of the AFL as a home game. Yes at times they both have the same position, it might be the soccer threat for example, a fairer draw, television rights and live against the gate issues but to say that teams in a two team town don't compete at every step of the way is ridiculous. They do, its no different in Perth and the Lions and Swans are going to find themselves in the fight of their lives, more so that they not only have to compete against each other but another profile winter code that competes for supporters.

Well done. Semantics to avoid saying they're always in competition except for the times when they're working together.

 

[aneale]

Well done. Semantics to avoid saying they're always in competition except for the times when they're working together.

because even when working together they are still in competition, the quest for dollars and viability never stops, they are always striving, right down to the little things like announcing on a friday that an announcement would be made on Monday, a rumoured day for Port to announce their much awaited sponsor announcement. You don't think flying in the Westpac rescue chopper isn't a little about sticking it up your little cottage ATM business? And that was just to put a sign on a building which will undoubtedly be visible on TV screens of all Power games as well. If you don't think the Clubs don't have people to monitor the media you're dreaming, they know exactly what each other is doing and who is getting the press. It's all one-upmanship.

 

[PrideOf]

I reckon the funniest part is the arguments that we will lose 140 years of history.....but they have been telling us for years that the history is now playing in the AFL

so it really was already lost years ago.

Yep, the people that killed 140 years of tradition in the SANFL currently work in Allan Scott Central.

Oh yes, the SANFL is being kept well in check, one Steven Trigg press conference at a time.

So Triggy's keeping the SANFL in check. Isn't that what you wish YOU could do, rather than be slapped around by Leigh Whicker?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Port people really are unique. The SANFL directors have apparently killed 140 years of tradition. I'm confused. Didn't that tradition get taken with Port Power when they entered the AFL. Aren't the Port magpies only 15 years old. Amazing how quickly they change their argument to suit their own agenda. Didn't most Port Power people want the Port Magpies dead and buried not less than 12 months ago.

The Prince of Wales must have been built on an oil field.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The SANFL is already boring enough with Centrals winning everything. Now potentially no Port Adelaide either. Blah.

How did North Adelaide get it in their heads that they are a relavent club? Who made them the spokesperson for the group? If they displayed as much passion and determination on the field as they have off the field in the past month they might have won a flag post Smells Like Teen Spirit. And shame on the other 7 clubs for falling in behind them.

Extremely disappointed in my club (Sturt). First we were one of the clubs who voted against the U18 proposal and now this. Won't bother renewing my membership this year as a result.

I certainly don't buy the "other clubs had to fight their way out of financial trouble too" line that is being spouted. Surely we can recognise that the 1997 AFL/SANFL splitting of the PAFC means that this is a unique situation. And should be treated as such.

We've killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[Cap]

Thats a poor attitude to have and your way of the mark sorry.

NFC, NAFC and SFC have all worked their way out of debt without getting massive front page headlines

you complain about Centrals dominating in the same breath your going to provide less money to the club you "follow"

interesting.......

the SANFL will go on with or without Port weather the comp is better or worse is another question.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

NFC, NAFC and SFC have all worked their way out of debt without getting massive front page headlines

Irrelevant. None of those clubs were split with an AFL arm and an SANFL arm. They were all one club and supporters could rally behind their club. The situation with PAFC is unique and these past examples shouldn't be used. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for a split PAFC. There was for the clubs you listed.

you complain about Centrals dominating in the same breath your going to provide less money to the club you "follow"

A competition without Port Adelaide is going to generate less interest, less fans, less sponsorship. My club will be worse off as it will be playing in a worse competition. And even if we 'win' something who'll give a shit?

the SANFL will go on with or without Port weather the comp is better or worse is another question.

No, it's the question. And it will unquestionably be worse. Take out the team that arouses the most passion, most rivarly and historically the highest attendances... goody gum drops.

 

[brucetiki]

No, it's the question. And it will unquestionably be worse.

I disagree. The SANFL will be a higher quality with 8 sides as it will consolidate the talent. Also, the sky isn't going to fall in the SANFL if the Port Magpies aren't there. There is still quite strong support for the bulk of the SANFL clubs - particularly Glenelg, Sturt and Centrals. The biggest SANFL crowd in recent memory was NOT a Port game. The last 2 GF's have had attendances of 34k and 35k with Port nowhere in sight.

The SANFL will go on, Port or no Port. If Port can get their crap together and stay afloat, great. If not, then the competition will move on.

 

[P.A.F.C]

A competition without Port Adelaide is going to generate less interest, less fans, less sponsorship. My club will be worse off as it will be playing in a worse competition. And even if we 'win' something who'll give a shit?
.

I'm amazed this point hasn't been brought up more.

The Port Magpies are basically the highest drawing team in the league. Average attendances are going to fall. Interest is going to fall. Who are Port fans going to support now? I honestly can't see many switching to Woodville. The SANFL is smaller for this move.

 

[Cap]

Irrelevant. None of those clubs were split with an AFL arm and an SANFL arm. They were all one club and supporters could rally behind their club. The situation with PAFC is unique and these past examples shouldn't be used. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for a split PAFC. There was for the clubs you listed.


A competition without Port Adelaide is going to generate less interest, less fans, less sponsorship. My club will be worse off as it will be playing in a worse competition. And even if we 'win' something who'll give a shit?

No, it's the question. And it will unquestionably be worse. Take out the team that arouses the most passion, most rivarly and historically the highest attendances... goody gum drops.

Once again you simply put the Mapgies as greater than the competition. In reality it will be fine, sure it may be smaller in terms of supporters but losing a small number short term is preferred over losing them all long term by sending the league broke after propping up unfinancial teams is far more beneficial.

This crap about being split in two is also a massive cop out, they are two separate teams its a bit like taking Sturt and the Crows and saying well if they merge they can lower their cost base!!!!! well that's obvious isn't it, its exactly what Port are doing to divert from the fact that we have two poorly managed, poorly supported and unviable teams running around.


THe fact that you have been suckered in by Port people suggesting they are bigger than the comp is very sad.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Once again you simply put the Mapgies as greater than the competition. In reality it will be fine, sure it may be smaller in terms of supporters but losing a small number short term is preferred over losing them all long term by sending the league broke after propping up unfinancial teams is far more beneficial.

This crap about being split in two is also a massive cop out, they are two separate teams its a bit like taking Sturt and the Crows and saying well if they merge they can lower their cost base!!!!! well that's obvious isn't it, its exactly what Port are doing to divert from the fact that we have two poorly managed, poorly supported and unviable teams running around.

THe fact that you have been suckered in by Port people suggesting they are bigger than the comp is very sad.

The heart and soul of the SANFL is the big four - Port, Norwood, Glenelg and Sturt. This is what keeps it ticking, these clubs generate the highest crowds. The competition would be significantly worse without any of those teams. It's not just a Port Adelaide thing, though they are unquestionably the biggest of the four.

Whether it is residual anger from 1990, whether they are jealous that the various cartels didn't get a look in 1996, the other SANFL clubs have bitten off their nose to spite their face and are using the business plan as an excuse to get their own back. They could never beat Port on the field, but they'll beat them now in the boardroom. Pettiness at its highest.

I don't buy that the standard of the competition would be raised either. If that was the case then why not just have two teams? Imagine how good the standard of football would be then. If Port folded a handful of players would filter into other SANFL teams, a few would drift off interstate, a few would go to amatuer/country, a few would never be heard of again... it would be a negligible difference if any. It's not like Port have been top of the tree lately, chock full of star power.

 

[jo172]

I'm amazed this point hasn't been brought up more.

The Port Magpies are basically the highest drawing team in the league. Average attendances are going to fall. Interest is going to fall. Who are Port fans going to support now? I honestly can't see many switching to Woodville. The SANFL is smaller for this move.

That's not a good reason at all.

Take Norwood for example, they lose perhaps 1 and a half (on average) home games against Port each year, hardly a huge difference.

Pure Rucci spin.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That's not a good reason at all.

Take Norwood for example, they lose perhaps 1 and a half (on average) home games against Port each year, hardly a huge difference.

Pure Rucci spin.

Yes, it's pure spin by Rucci that Port plays a game every week.

 

[Cap]

The comp also loses a bye..somthing which it doesn't want or need.


The big 4 doesn't exist anymore and never will, it's the Big 1 plus a couple of straglers and then the rest.

 

[Alex99]

I’m a pretty strong advocate for the Crows having a reserves side but not at the expense of any SANFL club and that included the Magpies.

In an ideal world, the SANFL commission would look at this situation and appoint the Magpies to the Power via a merges and allow them to be branded as one club (jumper, song, marketing, administration and players) and appoint the AFC as the 10th SANFL club as a reserves side. They should have a look into a crystal ball and look 30 years into the future. At this rate, I don’t see all 8 clubs surviving as they have now set a pretty strong precedent with helping clubs financially.

They need to start implementing a new long term strategy; however I don’t believe they are.

 

[jo172]

Yes, it's pure spin by Rucci that Port plays a game every week.

And it's effect on each individual side is negligible.

 

[RoosterLad]

The heart and soul of the SANFL is the big four - Port, Norwood, Glenelg and Sturt. This is what keeps it ticking, these clubs generate the highest crowds. The competition would be significantly worse without any of those teams. It's not just a Port Adelaide thing, though they are unquestionably the biggest of the four.

Glenelg with all of their 4 flags and non-travelling fans?

 

[Alex99]

The heart and soul of the SANFL is the big four - Port, Norwood, Glenelg and Sturt. This is what keeps it ticking, these clubs generate the highest crowds. The competition would be significantly worse without any of those teams. It's not just a Port Adelaide thing, though they are unquestionably the biggest of the four.

Oh please, that’s like saying Richmond, Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood are still the big 4 AFL clubs. Once upon a time it was correct but it’s simply not true anymore.

 

[malph]

because even when working together they are still in competition, the quest for dollars and viability never stops, they are always striving, right down to the little things like announcing on a friday that an announcement would be made on Monday, a rumoured day for Port to announce their much awaited sponsor announcement. You don't think flying in the Westpac rescue chopper isn't a little about sticking it up your little cottage ATM business? And that was just to put a sign on a building which will undoubtedly be visible on TV screens of all Power games as well. If you don't think the Clubs don't have people to monitor the media you're dreaming, they know exactly what each other is doing and who is getting the press. It's all one-upmanship.

I understand the point you are making, so I won't extend this further by arguing interpretations of the word 'competition.' However, I will say there is a difference between two organisations working together to buy LED advertising signs for each other, and the kind of competition between companies like Puma and Adidas.

Edit: on a side note, what sign will be seen on television?

So Triggy's keeping the SANFL in check. Isn't that what you wish YOU could do, rather than be slapped around by Leigh Whicker?

Er, look up 'facetious.'

Port people really are unique. The SANFL directors have apparently killed 140 years of tradition. I'm confused. Didn't that tradition get taken with Port Power when they entered the AFL. Aren't the Port magpies only 15 years old. Amazing how quickly they change their argument to suit their own agenda. Didn't most Port Power people want the Port Magpies dead and buried not less than 12 months ago.

The Prince of Wales must have been built on an oil field.

We're unique? Like most people, I assumed that the particular story of the events from 1990-1997, that suited my biases, was the truth, until I bothered to look at it properly. To this day, I'll be honest and say I'm still not 100% sure of exactly how everything has gone down. The club was split, so who has rights over the history - both or none? If it's one club only, who? The club with the original business licence? But if THAT is the case, why is the club with the original business licence, the club who submitted the tender, the club who was awarded the AFL sub-licence, not currently playing in the AFL? Red herrings abound.

Many people are mistaken, and they have good right to be. The SANFL created an identity crisis, and the two Port Adelaide's have done nothing but exacerbate it ever since. But there is no excuse for being ignorant, which you are.

I disagree. The SANFL will be a higher quality with 8 sides as it will consolidate the talent. Also, the sky isn't going to fall in the SANFL if the Port Magpies aren't there. There is still quite strong support for the bulk of the SANFL clubs - particularly Glenelg, Sturt and Centrals. The biggest SANFL crowd in recent memory was NOT a Port game. The last 2 GF's have had attendances of 34k and 35k with Port nowhere in sight.

There is probably only one supporter base in the SANFL who by and large cares exclusively for nothing except SANFL football, and they have just played in ten straight grand finals. When a grand final features somebody other than Centrals, let's test the "strength" of the league with grand final attendances. When Centrals miss a string of grand finals, that would be an even more accurate test.

Once again you simply put the Mapgies as greater than the competition. In reality it will be fine, sure it may be smaller in terms of supporters but losing a small number short term is preferred over losing them all long term by sending the league broke after propping up unfinancial teams is far more beneficial.

Port Adelaide was bigger than the competition. They were instrumental in the creation of the Crows. There is now a Port Adelaide in the AFL. If they were not bigger than the competition, they would still be a North Adelaide, or a Glenelg.

This crap about being split in two is also a massive cop out, they are two separate teams its a bit like taking Sturt and the Crows and saying well if they merge they can lower their cost base!!!!! well that's obvious isn't it, its exactly what Port are doing to divert from the fact that we have two poorly managed, poorly supported and unviable teams running around.

Port Adelaide always knew two teams were not viable. We never wanted to create two clubs: that was the SANFL's condition of entry. The league designed it, we accepted it, and what a messy bed it is. I certainly don't blame the SANFL for everything, but 100% of the blame isn't ours, either. We talk about poor "business plans," but if the PAFC had its way, there would have been a Magpies-less SANFL at least 13 years ago.

Like most anything in life, the truth lies in the gigantic grey between the black and the white. In this argument, those extremes are clearly occupied by the paranoid on one side, and the vindictive on the other.

 

[brucetiki]

IThere is probably only one supporter base in the SANFL who by and large cares exclusively for nothing except SANFL football, and they have just played in ten straight grand finals. When a grand final features somebody other than Centrals, let's test the "strength" of the league with grand final attendances. When Centrals miss a string of grand finals, that would be an even more accurate test.

Any GF not involving West, South or the Eagles would still pull a crowd of 30-35K regardless IMO. In fact, a Sturt v Norwood or Glenelg v Sturt GF could probably still pull a crowd pushing 40K.