Crows v Eagles

[fryingpan]

You don't know what happens on the training track Drummond, you don't know what goes on behind the scenes, maybe it's an attitude problem? He is 4 weeks behind the main training group because if his whiplash & hamstring don't forget.

Just settle down. Still a month until the season proper.

 

[James23]

I've heard from sources within the club, that some are unhappy with Dangerfields footy 'smarts'. By that i mean, hes not fully following the new strategies and game plans as well as others, and often runs to the wrong spots - this was also hinted at by Craig in his interview.

 

[Riggy1]

Great to be back mate. When was the last time Craig made any decisions that made sense or were successful?

• Why the heck isn’t Tony Armstrong in the side? Best vs the All-Stars, missed the next week due to injury I believe but he’s fit again as he was named in the squad but has missed out. Wouldn’t you pick youngsters who are looking good on the track and have performed in the little game situations we’ve had thus far? It’s mind boggling that Sloane can make the side before Armstrong, Sloane? He looked completely and utterly out of his depth in the AS game while Armstrong stood out. And yet the former is in and the latter is out.

Sloane was a standout in North's internal trial match.

 

[Chief Crow]

Craig cautious on Dangerfield front

By Katrina Gill 1:11 PM Thu 26 February, 2009

ADELAIDE coach Neil Craig has stuck to his selection criteria by leaving highly-rated 2007 draftee Patrick Dangerfield out of the 26-man team to play West Coast in Alice Springs on Friday night.
Dangerfield, 18, played two AFL games while based in Victoria to finish his year 12 studies last season and was widely expected to be a walk-up starter for the Crows' round one clash with Collingwood on March 28.
But the dashing midfielder has kept under wraps, receiving limited game time against the AFL Qantas Indigenous All-Stars in Darwin early this month after a knock to the head.
He hasn't played since but will line up in an intra-club match for West Adelaide this weekend.
Craig said his decision not to play Dangerfield against the Eagles was based on the teenager's preparation, which has been hampered by hamstring and whiplash injuries.
"At the moment, in talking to Pat this morning, the reality is that he’s missed four weeks of training that the other guys haven’t and that’s put him behind in some areas," Craig said on Thursday.
"I’m just looking for a slightly improved performance on the track in terms of game knowledge. What I mean by that is the way we want to move the ball, which if you’re not on the training track you can’t get and that’s where he’s been disadvantaged. And there are just some other aspects of his training performance we need to improve on.
"Pat’s attitude is outstanding and I’m sure he’ll play some NAB Cup footy pretty soon."
Craig said Dangerfield’s selection last year – when he wasn't even training in the same state as his teammates – was also based on performance.
"Last year we did play Pat from afar because he wasn’t training here and that selection was based on his playing performance in the under-18s," he said.
"You could argue that it was a tough call from the club to do that – to select him from afar – but the information we were getting back from the under-18 competition was that he was playing really well and I liked some of the things that he was doing.
"The two games he played in were in Melbourne, so it was minimal disruption to his year 12 studies in terms of travel and a good opportunity then."
Craig also asked for Crows fans, who have questioned the club's decision not to play Dangerfield, to 'be fair' to the promising teenager.
"In the end, I’ve just got to keep pulling back to performance and that’s why Rory Sloane comes into our 26," Craig said.
"He's performing on the training track and in an internal game with North Adelaide last week.
"My definition of performance and someone else’s definition might be different and that’s where you get debate about who should and who shouldn’t play. But in the end I have to make that decision, so I have to be true to my definition of performance.
"What I would say to the people is that I have a very high regard for Patrick Dangerfield. I’m sure he’s going to be an outstanding AFL player, but we have to be true to the way we go about selection."
Sloane, 18, is the only addition to the side that lost to Geelong by 35 points last week. He replaces defender Aaron Kite.

 

[Crow-mo]

There is no doubt that we have been rebuilding and to his credit NC has been able to engineer this while still getting us into finals.

except th club denies it!

The make up of the 06 prelim final side is drastically different to what we have now and the turnover has been achieved while remaining in finals.

yes, this is partly true. but we are slipping backwards, we have backwards momentum. this is what we need to arrest. Just remember Simon Goodwin was still runner up in the B&F.

our line up is very different, as is our ability to actually compete with the best teams. it is not yet clear that we are going to be good enough, which is the issue. time to just get some indications that our new players will actually be good enough in time, rather than just new.

Ask many interstate fans if they would "take" the results we have had over the last 4 years, combined with a rebuild, and Im sure the answer would be yes.

Ah but many interstate clubs would take a lot of the benefits we have, financial security, facilities, scouting networks, operation spend etc.

 

[Crow-mo]

Its been Interseting reading all the points of view with regards Neil Craig.

In My opinion, you can be the best coach in the world but unless you have the Cattle you are going to struggle to win a premiership. Not only do you need to have a good quality players but you need to have at least 2 maybe 3 players that can turn a game for you or win it off their own boot, in your side.

If you look at the Premiers for the recent period I am sure you will find that each of those teams had 2-3 players that fit that category,

At the moment Neil can coach howhe likes, create the best drilled team, we will still find it almost impossible unless we have 2-3 game breakers in our side.

you know, I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't agree with this. or you shouldn't.

but unfortunately there are questions lead off of this.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

you know, I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't agree with this. or you shouldn't.

but unfortunately there are questions lead off of this.

I also think part of it is luck.

Had you not had to face WC in the finals it is likely you may have ended up in a GF against Sydney which may definitely have gone in your favour.

Still that's a bit of a cop out and only a small factor.

 

[Cap]

I also think part of it is luck.

Had you not had to face WC in the finals it is likely you may have ended up in a GF against Sydney which may definitely have gone in your favour.

Still that's a bit of a cop out and only a small factor.

lets all be brutaully honest

if drug testing was done better - we would have been in the GF

*edit - wrong smiley

 

[Crow-mo]

I also think part of it is luck.

Had you not had to face WC in the finals it is likely you may have ended up in a GF against Sydney which may definitely have gone in your favour.

Still that's a bit of a cop out and only a small factor.

don't disagree, luck plays a big part in every premiership.

that said, when Malcolm blight was appointed coach, early on he was asked about Adelaides poor travelling record. he replied that there was no secret, away from home you have to be 3 - 4 goals better than your opposition to win.

luck is like that too, it plays a big role for my mind, and the secret is to be out in front of it so that you are not subject to it. if you are in a marginal situation, you can't blame luck - you shouldn't be in a coin toss position.

 

[Alex99]

In the long run i hope i am proven wrong but i am seeing similarities between Phil Smyth and Neil Craig that are not good. Phil Smyth lost his job as coach of the 36ers ultimately because of his inablity to effectivaly communicate with the younger player in the squad and change his game play to suit there needs. He hung onto the senior players that made his system successful and didn’t (or couldn’t) identify younger talented players to make that needed transition. I am now starting to get the same feeling with Neil Craig. Yes he has slowly turned the lsit over but only because he has to, not by choice or desire.

I hope Neil Craig is willing to take a large risk and play multipul kids in regular season game to allow them to develop for the future, not one or two who have over exceeded in the SANFL. He had to take a risk and play kids this season.

I just hope that Neil Craig knows that Patrick Dangerfield is a very quick midfielder, not a slow ruckman in waiting (in reference to Joe Ingles, some may get it) and plays his best football in the midfield.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

lets all be brutaully honest

if drug testing was done better - we would have been in the GF

Hahahahahahaha doubt it.

Neil Craig isn't a bad coach, but another way of looking at it is that in 05-06, your game style may not have lent itself towards a way which capitalized on certain players individual brilliance enough, through the over use of flooding, congesting movement around the ball in an overly defensive fashion.

I don't necessarily think this is the case, but what I will say is that both Craig and Worsfold are fairly similar in that they can be quite inflexible.

We took advantage of the players that we had, in regards to the style of game we played only slightly better than the Crows (and maybe only because we had more dominant/lucky finals appearances).

Premierships are always tainted for the fans of the other 15 clubs that didn't win them. It's easy to find reasons how if things had been a little different your team may have won them (such as us and injuries in 07).

What I will say is that Adelaide have maintaned an outstanding level of competitiveness over many years. Had we lost our second GF appearance to Sydney I think we would be in a similar situation where many would be calling for Worsfolds contract to not be renewed.

 

[Alex99]

I hear what you're saying.

Bottoming out is not what clubs set out to do, moreso it is the result of the process clubs put in place to get a premiership contending list.

The first part of the process is to discard veterans and play a heap of kids. This inevitably leads to some sub standard results because of the inconsistency of youth (known as tanking to some). From this, the low finishes come, then the quality draft picks etc etc, you know how the rest goes.

What I think our club needs to put in place is the first part of the process. Ie, discarding the veterans (already somewhat in motion) and start playing _more_ kids. Whether this translates in to low finishes or not remains to be seen (by recent examples, it probably will), but please please please, lets get some more game time in to our youth. We may be pleasantly surprised by the results (1993 Essendon anyone ?).

Yeah thats what i mean, i don't want to bottom out and lose games on purpose. Shit no but please make sure the process is in place by round 1. Give the kids some much needed responsibility and allow them to develop over the season. And i don't buy this crap about "if we select them, they must perform" because i don't think that is working as we did not have 1 kid stand out last week and we only had Tippett show something last year. Yes Andy Otten played well but he didn't stand out and grab the game by the throat (see Ziebell, Thompson).

 

[Mismatched]

Yeah thats what i mean, i don't want to bottom out and lose games on purpose. Shit no but please make sure the process is in place by round 1. Give the kids some much needed responsibility and allow them to develop over the season. And i don't buy this crap about "if we select them, they must perform" because i don't think that is working as we did not have 1 kid stand out last week and we only had Tippett show something last year. Yes Andy Otten played well but he didn't stand out and grab the game by the throat (see Ziebell, Thompson).

What about Mackay, I would have classed him as showing something last year

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Cringeworthy.

If he's the best I'd hate to know some of the bad things.

Robert Shaw.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I am going to get shot down by some who have this idealistic view on how things should be done and i accept that but the bad part of this club is the culture of never bottoming out. We have to learn how to play the game and accept that getting draft high picks is now part of the game to long term winning. If we want to win a premiership and stay around the top oif the ladder for out due time, we have to be willing to bottom out and rebuild via the draft. Staying in the middle of the pack will not cut it and will only leave us a mediocre club.

Other clubs play the game, we ahve to as well or we will acheive nothing.

Correct. Post of the week. Its sums up everyones argument. The pro-Craigs are intelligent enough to realise he has done well with average to ordinary ageing cattle.
The anti-Craigs argument is in 5 years he has had enough time to rebuild. Fair enough. But it isnt going to happen with him making us always so competitive. Thats Craigs crime

 

[Alex99]

What about Mackay, I would have classed him as showing something last year

Yeah OK, he showed enough to suggest he will be a good player but still doesn't change anything. Our development of players is just not quick enough or it hasn't been in the past. Hopefully this changes this year.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I have no idea why I've been so positive/trusting of this club over the off season. As soon as selection starts and we hear Craig's thoughts, I get fed up. It's happening all over again.

Can our next coach please be someone with half a clue?

cringeworthy

 

[spexau]

I suppose when you consider the age of a lot of our players we're going to have a lot of them peaking around the same time in a year or 2. Can't be a bad thing at all.

 

[Crow-mo]

Correct. Post of the week. Its sums up everyones argument. The pro-Craigs are intelligent enough to realise he has done well with average to ordinary ageing cattle.

actually no. there is also argument about how ordinary that cattle is
seems that is a convenient re-statement for those intelligent enough to want push the barrow

The anti-Craigs argument is in 5 years he has had enough time to rebuild. Fair enough. But it isnt going to happen with him making us always so competitive.

and again you slant it perhaps the wrong direction. you can't have your cake and eat it too. implied in this, is that finishing 8th every year is an acceptable result and we should worry about rebuilding as long as we're mid table competitive.

bottom line, is we have re-stocked and its time now to have a look and see just how good the quality of our new cattle is.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

actually no. there is also argument about how ordinary that cattle is
seems that is a convenient re-statement for those intelligent enough to want push the barrow



and again you slant it perhaps the wrong direction. you can't have your cake and eat it too. implied in this, is that finishing 8th every year is an acceptable result and we should worry about rebuilding as long as we're mid table competitive.

bottom line, is we have re-stocked and its time now to have a look and see just how good the quality of our new cattle is.

What is better Mo, finishing 8th or 15th? Id say 8th. Neil Craig would say 8th. The way the comp is set up the answer is 15th. To succeed you need to be shit. Im going to watch the cricket, AFL is giving me the shits

 

[Crow-mo]

What is better Mo, finishing 8th or 15th? Id say 8th. Neil Craig would say 8th. The way the comp is set up the answer is 15th. To succeed you need to be shit. Im going to watch the cricket, AFL is giving me the shits

that's a different question to how your framed it a moment ago. its not whether 8th is better than 15th, but whether we shouldn't expect to build for a flag if we're happy finishing 8th.

 

[cmndstab]

Eat some ice cream and relax Drum Don't make me turn up at training at the same time as you and offer a hug. Because you know I'll do it. Actually, I'm surprised I haven't done it already!

 

[Deaneus!]

that's a different question to how your framed it a moment ago. its not whether 8th is better than 15th, but whether we shouldn't expect to build for a flag if we're happy finishing 8th.

But it's the same thing. As the AFL is now, 8th will never get you the draft picks to get good enough cattle. 15th will: just ask Carlton.

 

[CroCop]

We still have two weeks of Trial ganmes left. Danger can still play in Berri and the week after hopefully at Footy Park. I would probably rather see him play a full match at Westies this week than half a game with Crows . I hope Westies have a Trial . Does anyone know wether they do?

 

[Crow-mo]

But it's the same thing. As the AFL is now, 8th will never get you the draft picks to get good enough cattle. 15th will: just ask Carlton.

its not the same thing at all. if you are going to finish 8th every year, you need to approach things differently to the way someone who was well expecting to bottom out and collect draft picks.

its an inadequate response to say cause we finished 8th, we can't rebuild or build to challenge. what we can't do, is do it the same way.