Cummins Overrated?

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Demosthenes said:
Doing the maths? I'm not that much of an anorak... maybe Cricinfo haven't updated for this Test yet. If one match has pulled him below Haze, so be it. Doesn't really change the substance of what we're discussing.

The reality is that Cummins is a good talent who will probably become a very good bowler, but whose performances thus far have not deserved the constant and lavish tonguebaths he gets on this site. You only have to skim through match threads to see better bowlers with better performances getting far more flak and far less praise.

I very much hope that Cummins takes 8 wickets a match for the rest of his career. It won't change what has gone before, however.
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You're whole argument about him has revolved around his strike rate.

Which is sitting at 51 with half of his tests in India..........


Just have a lie down.
 
Will get better and smarter with experience too. Good signs that he lasted 5 tests.

Needs to be smarter in situations like when Broad was slogging in Melbourne.
 

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People are definitely glossing over his all round ability as well.

Not too many players in world cricket with a bowling average lower than their batting average atm.

Averaging 27.60 with the bat.

I think he has the potential to average around that for the rest of his career, he has a test ton or two in him imo. Definitely needs to bat above Starc.
 
Pykie said:
People are definitely glossing over his all round ability as well.

Not too many players in world cricket with a bowling average lower than their batting average atm.

Averaging 27.60 with the bat.

I think he has the potential to average around that for the rest of his career, he has a test ton or two in him imo. Definitely needs to bat above Starc.
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He will not see himself as an allrounder despite probably having the ability.
He will work on his major asset as a pace bowler to become the best he can be. Takes a lot to just master that and keep on the park. He probably still want to get back the pace he had when he started out and will do that in time.
 
Pykie said:
You're whole argument about him has revolved around his strike rate.
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My argument has been that Cummins has continuously had his ring licked by nuffies on BF, whilst consistently turning in the poorest figures of all our bowlers. Go back through the match threads for this series and tell me that he hasn't been given an easier ride than Starc, who has completely outperformed him.

None of that is a criticism of Cummins himself, whom I have consistently said I rate. And none of it will be negated if Cummins does happen to turn into a great bowler down the track.

I understand this is a concept that is a little difficult for the great unwashed to grasp.
 
Demosthenes said:
My argument has been that Cummins has continuously had his ring licked by nuffies on BF, whilst consistently turning in the poorest figures of all our bowlers. Go back through the match threads for this series and tell me that he hasn't been given an easier ride than Starc, who has completely outperformed him.

None of that is a criticism of Cummins himself, whom I have consistently said I rate. And none of it will be negated if Cummins does happen to turn into a great bowler down the track.

I understand this is a concept that is a little difficult for the great unwashed to grasp.
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Do you think that, had you instead avoided insulting people who disagree with you, you may have garnered a better reaction?

I'd be inclined to agree with you, had you stated your argument instead of refering to those who disagree with you 'the great unwashed', or a-hole lickers.
 
Demosthenes said:
My argument has been that Cummins has continuously had his ring licked by nuffies on BF, whilst consistently turning in the poorest figures of all our bowlers. Go back through the match threads for this series and tell me that he hasn't been given an easier ride than Starc, who has completely outperformed him.

None of that is a criticism of Cummins himself, whom I have consistently said I rate. And none of it will be negated if Cummins does happen to turn into a great bowler down the track.

I understand this is a concept that is a little difficult for the great unwashed to grasp.
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STFU now please
 
Pykie said:
That would be a massive effort given his injuries, also a big what could of been.
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To be fair, most players are only beginning their international careers at age 24, and Cummins is now 10 Tests in, with a bowling average of 25 (and a handy batting average of 27.60 too!).

Yeah, he could have played more already, but as long as he stays fit going forward, he'll comfortably play plenty of cricket for Australia in the future.
 
Pykie said:
Not bad stats considering a vast majority were considered roads, he's going to destroy it in South Africa, he nips the ball more than Hazlewood and Starc.
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Remember, he got a 6-fer on debut in South Africa, as an 18-year-old on very little preparation. Will kill it now that's he's stronger, match-fit, and in form (and SA have a weaker batting line-up than they did in 2011).
 
Topkent said:
Mate just put your hand up and say gee I thought I was swimming out of the tide but I've actually just drowned.

What the hell is wrong with you that you cant acknowledge how staggering it is cummins is bowling this well after missing 5 years of cricket completely.

5 ******* years. This is the worst he will howl for a decade and he's averaging 25. That's why people talk him up. If you think he's the finished product at his age and experience I suggest you learn some more about cricket
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He also did very well to take so many wickets despite being asked to bowl like Morne Morkel for most of the series.
 
Demosthenes said:
My argument has been that Cummins has continuously had his ring licked by nuffies on BF, whilst consistently turning in the poorest figures of all our bowlers. Go back through the match threads for this series and tell me that he hasn't been given an easier ride than Starc, who has completely outperformed him.

None of that is a criticism of Cummins himself, whom I have consistently said I rate. And none of it will be negated if Cummins does happen to turn into a great bowler down the track.

I understand this is a concept that is a little difficult for the great unwashed to grasp.
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All I see is 10 Tests, 44 wickets @ 25.00 at a strike rate of 51.9 after playing just short of half his Tests in the Sub Continent. Leading wicket-taker this series, pretty good given he doesn't get to use the new ball (Starc did play one less Test). He'd have more wickets this series if he did get the new ball given the docile nature of pitches and didn't have to play the enforcer role. After 10 Tests he looks outstanding. Don't wish to compare him to anyone, i'll just look at his performances individually.
 

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This thread is bordering on embarrassing - the guy is a gun. If he had bowled a fuller length in the previous couple of tests, he would have taken many more- it seems he was instructed to bowl short. Best bowling prospect in many years.
 
Pykie said:
He doesn't.

I think you need to re-look at his stats following this test.

He took 23 wkts at 24.65, S.R of 51.4, E.R 2.87

Haze had a SR of 54 in this series.

Starc a SR of 44.

Not bad stats considering a vast majority were considered roads, he's going to destroy it in South Africa, he nips the ball more than Hazlewood and Starc.
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Starc skipped Melbourne too
 
His spell in SA as an 18 year old is up there with the best I’ve seen if he can get upto that kind of pace and out swing look out
 
outabounds said:
This thread is bordering on embarrassing - the guy is a gun. If he had bowled a fuller length in the previous couple of tests, he would have taken many more- it seems he was instructed to bowl short. Best bowling prospect in many years.
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If he's a gun he would have bowled a fuller length.. right?
 
Demosthenes said:
Cummins is a fine bowler, but this board massively overrates economy and massively underrates wicket-taking ability.
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Wicket taking ability.

Wat.

Leading wicket taker in the series. Yeah yeah Starc missed one. Leading wicket taker.

I feel you have handled this thread backfire spectacularly poorly.
 
bowled well earlier in the series without taking wickets but kept things tight. cleaned up in the last test.

no, not every test his played so far in his career have been like his debut test. more than solid start to his career though.
 
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