Dan Collins

[POBT]

The article was written by Jon Ralph. I find that interesting.

 

[western royboy]

I listened to Wayne Brittain and was stunned. Like a coin into a pokie the penny dropped with me and it brought back lots of bad memories from a corporate experience when regimes changed. Hope it ends up better than the one I was involved in.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Tassie, I think you underestimate the power and inclination of the media, and in particular News Ltd, to shape opinions. While it is not always this clear cut, the moment Murdoch publicly supported Rudd before the last election was the moment I knew Labor would win it.

When News Ltd has a considerable financial stake in ensuring League's continued domination over AFL in the northern states, I would find it bizarrely obtuse to not at least question their editorial motives (and let's face it the entire CM is one big editorial).

IMHO, your estimate of the "power and inclination of the media" is vastly overstated. For a start, most Australians probably aren't interested in politics, for example, other than at the margins, and based on my experience only, many don't read newspapers regularly. I'd guess that most people get their news from TV [and if you want a biased media outlet, try Channel 10]. I am interested in politics because of my academic background, but I wouldn't have known who the Murdoch newspapers supported last time around as it's irrelevant to me and I suspect the great majority of newspaper readers don't even read the editorials.

These days, many of us have access to a very much broader range of media than in the past. Debating this a couple of years ago with a UQ tutor whose view was that Murdoch controlled nearly everything so what was the point, my response was that growing up in Hobart we got our news through the ABC and "The Mercury"- that was it. These days, I have 2 papers delivered daily, and when I can I read the net versions of the "Herald Sun", "The Age", "Mercury", "Guardian", "Telegraph", ABC The Drum etc. No doubt many other people do the same. Point is, it's a lot more difficult for one news stable to control the agenda, if they wanted to, these days than in the past.

If the CM is dishonestly or for base motives running an anti- Brisbane Lions agenda, I haven't seen it. Brittain's comments this morning suggest there might be something to the stuff written recently.

 

[_hyphy]

Ding ding....round 3:

Michael Voss losing player faith


Anyone hear the interview on SEN?

Brittain was fairly critical of Voss, however I got the impression much more critical of Collins and the structures and processes he put in place.Some of the tidbits I recall from the interview;

* The visiting of his brother when in hospital
* Brittain used to go onto the ground before a game and have a kick to kick with all the younger players pre-game, high performance coaches told Britts he wasn't allowed to do this after concerns about measuring a players performance levels
* He has the impression Voss took on more tasks than could be managed therefore neglecting the important things like player welfare
* Collins way of communicating with people around the club

As has been said before Collins was everywhere on Saturday night, a definite stand by the club/Voss. I can't help but think that striving to be a high performance organisation, management has neglected the fundamentals of a successful sporting club, spirit, loyalty, pride. I'm not fazed about the Bradshaw deal, but looking back now, when half of your assistant coaches leave, one of your oldest and most respected players leaves in a huff, all the hoopla that came with Fev, logo debates that cut to the heart of the club fabric ... are we really surprised we're not performing that well on the park?

 

[western royboy]

Brittain was fairly critical of Voss, however I got the impression much more critical of Collins and the structures and processes he put in place.Some of the tidbits I recall from the interview;

* The visiting of his brother when in hospital
* Brittain used to go onto the ground before a game and have a kick to kick with all the younger players pre-game, high performance coaches told Britts he wasn't allowed to do this after concerns about measuring a players performance levels
* He has the impression Voss took on more tasks than could be managed therefore neglecting the important things like player welfare
* Collins way of communicating with people around the club

As has been said before Collins was everywhere on Saturday night, a definite stand by the club/Voss. I can't help but think that striving to be a high performance organisation, management has neglected the fundamentals of a successful sporting club, spirit, loyalty, pride. I'm not fazed about the Bradshaw deal, but looking back now, when half of your assistant coaches leave, one of your oldest and most respected players leaves in a huff, all the hoopla that came with Fev, logo debates that cut to the heart of the club fabric ... are we really surprised we're not performing that well on the park?

Th answer is a resounding of course not, though I hoped we might have dodged a bullet. The reality is it was bound to happen and now that Britts has bought into it I am surprised it hasn't become a bigger issue already. At some stage after the Port stuff settles down and Knights gets knifed at the Don's they will hone their attention on us.

 

[_hyphy]

Yeah, it's most disappointing considering the in-rounds we seemed to have made last year. The way in which we played the game, all the last quarter heroics, never say die stuff etc..

Serious questions will be asked and so they should IMO.

 

[kimp]

IMHO, your estimate of the "power and inclination of the media" is vastly overstated. For a start, most Australians probably aren't interested in politics, for example, other than at the margins, and based on my experience only, many don't read newspapers regularly. I'd guess that most people get their news from TV [and if you want a biased media outlet, try Channel 10]. I am interested in politics because of my academic background, but I wouldn't have known who the Murdoch newspapers supported last time around as it's irrelevant to me and I suspect the great majority of newspaper readers don't even read the editorials.

These days, many of us have access to a very much broader range of media than in the past. Debating this a couple of years ago with a UQ tutor whose view was that Murdoch controlled nearly everything so what was the point, my response was that growing up in Hobart we got our news through the ABC and "The Mercury"- that was it. These days, I have 2 papers delivered daily, and when I can I read the net versions of the "Herald Sun", "The Age", "Mercury", "Guardian", "Telegraph", ABC The Drum etc. No doubt many other people do the same. Point is, it's a lot more difficult for one news stable to control the agenda, if they wanted to, these days than in the past.

If the CM is dishonestly or for base motives running an anti- Brisbane Lions agenda, I haven't seen it. Brittain's comments this morning suggest there might be something to the stuff written recently.

You are pulling our leg right?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Sounds a very fixable situation.

Whether Voss is willing to do so is the real test.

 

[Quigley]

You have to think with the rumours floating around and the departures of assistants last year and this we are going to have trouble attracting good candidates for the assistant positions. This should be of serious concern to the Lions management and they need to be seen from the outside to be taking steps to address the issue. This is a time when we get to see if Bowers can do anything more than antagonise supporters.

 

[Quigley]

Thinking about it the only thing that might save Collins is the fact that the Lions won't want to give Hamilton a scalp. They would not want to give him the power to think that he can influence what happens inside the Lions. Hamilton is pushing too hard now with three articles on the same topic in a week.

My guess is that he will be shuffled into a more traditional COO role away from player interaction and game day roles. Saves face and addresses the problem provided Voss does not dig his heals in which is always on the cards.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yeah you'd hope Voss's motivation doesn't become "I am not going to let external people deter me from my course... I'm digging in".

It should be "is this working... or do the media have a case".

It could very well be that they don't, but the critical eye has to be pointed in the right direction.

 

[western royboy]

You have to think with the rumours floating around and the departures of assistants last year and this we are going to have trouble attracting good candidates for the assistant positions. This should be of serious concern to the Lions management and they need to be seen from the outside to be taking steps to address the issue. This is a time when we get to see if Bowers can do anything more than antagonise supporters.

I don't think we can compete on a financial basis to assemble the people we would want. Financial performance off field is inextricably linked to perfomance onfield particularly in the development area. as much as I hate Collingwood, I marvel at their development of their draftees, they just get the best chance to make it.

Brittain was critical of the structures Collins has put in place that meant Vossy has little time for what Brittain sees as a core part of the role. I respect his opinion.

The next few weeks will be intersting.

 

[western royboy]

Ok I've found the man to replace Collins - Gary O'Donnell.

We know him, we love him, he ticks all the boxes - go to it.

 

[Quigley]

On the assistant front I would be looking at:

Development coach - someone from the Freo development crew. The work they have been doing with their young players has been first class. There is still a Scott over there isn't there. Maybe he might like to come back to the Lions if we want to keep it inhouse.

Midfield coach - go with the best. Geelong have had great players but they keep slotting guys in there who do the job. Lappin has been quietly been working behind the scenes there and has a very good reputation. Collingwood has also been good at slotting young guys into the middle and have them perform. Maybe look there.

Game day coach - Sydney always do a great job with the talent they have.

We have also been saying that we look like we are a coach short. Perhaps we should look at a recently retired player to come in. Kirk is someone who came up the hard way and really helped develop a great culture within the team he lead. I would be enquiring if he needed a job.

We definately need a clean out of our injury management area (including infectous control). I would be looking at someone who worked in the Sydney or St Kilda organisations to bring the systems with them.

 

[Stocka]

Sounds a very fixable situation.

What do you think the solution might entail?

Whether Voss is willing to do so is the real test.

I also think it will come down to how the people in power around Voss (such as the board or administration) respond to the situation.

Despite the fact that Voss seems to be incredibility confident in his own capacities, I don't think he'd be foolish enough to think that he doesn't need to reflect on his own performance, identify problems, receive feedback and make adjustments.

However, I do wonder though, if those people around him (directors, administrators, etc.) encourage this sort of thinking, or if they simply think that their first impulses are correct and that it's only their own voice that counts. I tend to have a feeling that it might be more of the latter and am concerned that this then might influence how Voss goes about his decision-making. It's this sort of thing that can end up seeing people backed into a bad situation where they try to hold their ground, despite all evidence to the contrary that would suggest that a different approach be preferable.

 

[Stocka]

On the assistant front I would be looking at:

Development coach - someone from the Freo development crew. The work they have been doing with their young players has been first class. There is still a Scott over there isn't there. Maybe he might like to come back to the Lions if we want to keep it inhouse.

Midfield coach - go with the best. Geelong have had great players but they keep slotting guys in there who do the job. Lappin has been quietly been working behind the scenes there and has a very good reputation. Collingwood has also been good at slotting young guys into the middle and have them perform. Maybe look there.

Game day coach - Sydney always do a great job with the talent they have.

We have also been saying that we look like we are a coach short. Perhaps we should look at a recently retired player to come in. Kirk is someone who came up the hard way and really helped develop a great culture within the team he lead. I would be enquiring if he needed a job.

We definately need a clean out of our injury management area (including infectous control). I would be looking at someone who worked in the Sydney or St Kilda organisations to bring the systems with them.

I think they're all good names, Quigley, but I reckon it'd be great if we could bring in some who perhaps have even more experience than some of those you've mentioned.

P.Sumich was one name who seemed to be rated highly a while back. Not sure what his role is now or how he's gone, but he'd be one I'd look at based on his reputation from the Eagles' premiership years. Then again, I'd imagine he might be on some serious coin and may want a bigger role if he were to move elsewhere, as opposed to being second-fiddle to a rookie coach.

N.Daniher might also be another. I think Daniher was quite a good coach who had a good rapport with his players. Then again, he might be in a similar position to Sumich, in that we'd have to fork out something serious to get him. With that said, I reckon he'd be an ideal mentor.

S.Watters seems to be highly regarded at Collingwood. He's probably behind the likes of M.Neeld when it comes to senior aspirations, so I reckon there'd be a good chance of offering him something decent at the Lions. Collingwood appear to have a very good coaching team and have got great results over the last few years and I reckon someone like Watters could bring a lot of insight to the Lions.

R.Smith at Hawthorn seems to have been an assistant right through that team's development up to the point of being a Premiership winner. He's fairly low profile but seems to be highly regarded and has a lot of experience. It doesn't seem like he's out for a senior coaching role, so perhaps he's another that we could look at. I'm pretty sure he's been the defensive coach at Hawthorn, and I reckon they were pretty good in this area during their premiership season.

 

[Hollow Knight]

What do you think the solution might entail?

If Collins is the problem, you make it so that he isn't the problem anymore.

Whether that involves a shift in the scope of his position, or getting rid of him altogether... well I don't know enough to say.

 

[Quigley]

All good names there Stocka. Smith and Daniher I hadn't thought of and both might be worth considering thats for sure. I mentioned a few ex Lions names there but I am actually all for getting a bit of new blood and ideas around the joint. Let the new guys come in without an established relationship.

 

[kimp]

I also think it will come down to how the people in power around Voss (such as the board or administration) respond to the situation.

Despite the fact that Voss seems to be incredibility confident in his own capacities, I don't think he'd be foolish enough to think that he doesn't need to reflect on his own performance, identify problems, receive feedback and make adjustments.

However, I do wonder though, if those people around him (directors, administrators, etc.) encourage this sort of thinking, or if they simply think that their first impulses are correct and that it's only their own voice that counts. I tend to have a feeling that it might be more of the latter and am concerned that this then might influence how Voss goes about his decision-making. It's this sort of thing that can end up seeing people backed into a bad situation where they try to hold their ground, despite all evidence to the contrary that would suggest that a different approach be preferable.

My gut feel is that this is the core of any potential current issues.

Saying that though (and climbing onto my soapbox) my absolute pet hate with the media is their demand for immediate resolution to all perceived issues. This is most evident in the political arena (yes we know there's issues in our health system but it is impossible to fix things overnight regardless of how much money is thrown at it) but it has come over to sports as well.

It takes TIME to build winning teams. This was emphasised watching the World Cup this morning. The panel afterwards discussed how Spain and Germany had set up systems to built up their teams over ten years ago! This is why I'm very reluctant to ever criticise a coach and especially a new one. High turnover of management is a disaster to any organisation.

That's also why I agree with what Stocka has said. Vossy was inexperienced and if he won't have a coaching mentor then the Lions management should have put in place a role that closely monitored him and provided guidance when necessary (and insisted if required).

Let's hope that Vossy doesn't become the Rudd of the football world and actually listens to those who are experienced and know what they're talking about (and that certainly does not include the media). Making important strategic decisions based on media feedback is the beginning of the end imo. Completely ignoring feedback is just as bad.

 

[western royboy]

Just heard a snippet from Vossy's presser. They are going to have a field day.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Just heard a snippet from Vossy's presser. They are going to have a field day.

More information required!

 

[CarloLion]

Whats the presser about??

 

[acuguy]

Worst Case Scenario

Voss and Collins will have come up with a mission statement, KPI'S and GOALS all pobably revolving around being a cutting edge high performance organisation.

They will have studied organisational change, in this they would have seen plenty of theories on people's unwillingnes to change in their life and workplace.

The 2 of them potentially have indoctrinated each other so that any alternate view is seen as naive and ignorant rot.

2 things will happen

1. There will be a change of direction and philosophy as a result of this fall out

2.Voss and Collins will start lopping heads as soon as our season is over

 

[cefalu_instinct]

More information required!

Only just caught the end of it on SEN but he was talking about Brittain as being the past and that he had no reason to answer questions about somebody who is no longer in the organisation. Sounded like a very tense old conversation.

Been looking for more of it but can't seem to find it at the moment.

 

[western royboy]

Only just caught the end of it on SEN but he was talking about Brittain as being the past and that he had no reason to answer questions about somebody who is no longer in the organisation. Sounded like a very tense old conversation.

Been looking for more of it but can't seem to find it at the moment.

Likewise I've been trying to find more but to no avail.