Analysis Dangerfields drop in form

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Warhorse

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Seeds is correct on Hawkins. The bloke cleared 200cm in the high jump at school. Now due to injuries he can't get off the ground. With his footy brain he has been able to adapt his game to become successful. He may have been discussed in the same sentence as franklin if he didn't injure his back
 

Vdubs

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Think you’re reading too much into this one.

Paddy has played around the 95kg mark ever since he first became the Dangerfield we know and love.

It’s not the 80s anymore. Midfielders are tall, sizeable men. 90kg+ is a given for the modern day inside mid.

Petracca is listed at 97kg, seen Dusty listed at similar (before his kidney weight loss) even seen on Ports board that Wines is listed as 104kg. Paddy is right where he should be.

If anything his ability to run out matches and apparent loss of a yard or two has far more to do with his recent groin issues. He would’ve lost considerable power in his legs which is where he gets his acceleration. That needs to be rectified with a preseason far more than his weight.
Ablett Snr 185/105+ at his 1993-95 KF peak
 

standupand

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Seeds is correct on Hawkins. The bloke cleared 200cm in the high jump at school. Now due to injuries he can't get off the ground. With his footy brain he has been able to adapt his game to become successful. He may have been discussed in the same sentence as franklin if he didn't injure his back
I don't have any inside info, but just curious where this idea that Hawkins can't leap anymore comes from and it being linked to his former back injury? I don't see it tbh. Even early on, he was never really a player that relied on high-leaping speccies - more a lead-up forward who was/is good in 1 v 1 s. The back injury was really noticeable for him for a period of time because he really struggled with ground balls and general covering the ground. Not so much his leap at the ball though.. I put him right up there with Franklin as a generational forward when you think of how seldom he has been beaten over his career by any defender. A much more team-oriented player than Buddy too. I have trouble putting Dangerfield at the same level as either he or Selwood for the pure reason that Danger has always had flaws in his game and has carried those flaws throughout his career. It's not too late to see him improve, especially if he can get his body right for the next few years.
 

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MacStradbroke

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Is he better then those 4?

selwoods more a pendlebury and simon black level. Regularly around 3-5 best player in the league for numerous years on end. Never in the top 2.

for me a superstar has to be a player who has taken the comp by storm and been the best player in the league at times. Selwood never quite reached that level.
I honestly believe Selwood is a better footballer than Danger…and I love Danger.
 

Seeds

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I honestly believe Selwood is a better footballer than Danger…and I love Danger.
depends how much you rate longevity over peak perfromance.

danger has had multiple seasons where he has been arguably the best player in the comp.

selwood never reached this level.

even the longevity angle is questionable given selwood has 6 all australians and danger has 8 all australians.
 

Seeds

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So Fyfe who has no premierships, only 3 all Australians, none as captain, less Brownlow votes than Selwood is a better player. Selwood only has 6 all Australians, 3 as captain, 3 premierships and 4 most courageous awards.
Btw what constitutes a generation? GAJ is surely in the same generation as Franklin.

On CPH1831 using BigFooty.com mobile app
There is one stat that puts Nat Fyfe ahead of every single player in AFL/VFL history. Leading into the 2021 season, Fyfe has averaged 1.05 Brownlow votes per game. Only Fyfe and fellow West Australian Haydn Bunton Senior (1.04) has averaged more than one Brownlow vote per game in their careers.

selwood averages 0.7 brownlow votes per game.


probably dont want to bring up brownlow votes when having this discussion. a discussion im not really interested in having. Only extremely biased geelong fans who dont really watch non geelong games are going to say selwood over fyfe

Go raise it on the main board and see what your response is.
 

Down at K Park

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There is one stat that puts Nat Fyfe ahead of every single player in AFL/VFL history. Leading into the 2021 season, Fyfe has averaged 1.05 Brownlow votes per game. Only Fyfe and fellow West Australian Haydn Bunton Senior (1.04) has averaged more than one Brownlow vote per game in their careers.

selwood averages 0.7 brownlow votes per game.


probably dont want to bring up brownlow votes when having this discussion. a discussion im not really interested in having. Only extremely biased geelong fans who dont really watch non geelong games are going to say selwood over fyfe

Go raise it on the main board and see what your response is.

Hasn’t exactly had a lot of high calibre players around him, bar pav, mundy and sandi. Selwood had a whole team full of stars for much of his career. Goes some way to explain the discrepancy.
 

standupand

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There is one stat that puts Nat Fyfe ahead of every single player in AFL/VFL history. Leading into the 2021 season, Fyfe has averaged 1.05 Brownlow votes per game. Only Fyfe and fellow West Australian Haydn Bunton Senior (1.04) has averaged more than one Brownlow vote per game in their careers.

selwood averages 0.7 brownlow votes per game.


probably dont want to bring up brownlow votes when having this discussion. a discussion im not really interested in having. Only extremely biased geelong fans who dont really watch non geelong games are going to say selwood over fyfe

Go raise it on the main board and see what your response is.
That is seriously impressive, but not nearly as impressive as 3 premiership medallions. I always trust supporters of the team the player plays for over outsiders in terms of gauging the true worth of a player. Outsiders basically just look at stats and the media echo-chamber and opinions of others. True fans ride every error and every piece of greatness that each of their players do. That's what makes me laugh at lists of the top 20 players of the 2000s that put Dangerfield in and Selwood out.
 

Nest of Cats

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Could be a good time for Patty to settle on the wing this season, with an occasional cameo in the guts?
 

Pure_Ownage

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Dangers drop in form is because hes been playing injured most of the last 2 years and hasnt had the training volume needed to be at his best. Now hes fit i expect to see a big uptick from him after a full pre season he wont get back to 26yo elite danger level but he should still be very A grade. The interesting thing for me is if he plays full time midfield this year or a lot more forward.
 

Pure_Ownage

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Could be a good time for Patty to settle on the wing this season, with an occasional cameo in the guts?

Doesnt have the kicking or the endurance for wing (is a burst runner not a endurance runner) plus we have 3 A grade wingers (smith duncan menegola). If he doesnt play midfield he should be playing as a marking deep forward.
 

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Seeds

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That is seriously impressive, but not nearly as impressive as 3 premiership medallions. I always trust supporters of the team the player plays for over outsiders in terms of gauging the true worth of a player. Outsiders basically just look at stats and the media echo-chamber and opinions of others. True fans ride every error and every piece of greatness that each of their players do. That's what makes me laugh at lists of the top 20 players of the 2000s that put Dangerfield in and Selwood out.
But geelong fans arent supporters of freemantle. So how can geelong fans have more insight into whether selwood is better then fyfe?

and do we still confuse team performance with individual. I get it. You think 2 times premiership player shannon byrnes is a better player then gary ablett snr and tony lockett.
 

Seeds

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Hasn’t exactly had a lot of high calibre players around him, bar pav, mundy and sandi. Selwood had a whole team full of stars for much of his career. Goes some way to explain the discrepancy.
No it doesnt. it doesnt explain it one bit. Geelong also had way more wins then freemantle. Losing teams players get far far less votes.
 

Down at K Park

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No it doesnt. it doesnt explain it one bit.
It does. He’s had absolute legends of the game stealing votes from him. Fyfe has been in a crap freo team for what, 5 years now? Even when freo were a good team they weren’t exactly full of superstars.

Selwood has played with 3 brownlow winners.
 

standupand

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But geelong fans arent supporters of freemantle. So how can geelong fans have more insight into whether selwood is better then fyfe?

and do we still confuse team performance with individual. I get it. You think 2 times premiership player shannon byrnes is a better player then gary ablett snr and tony lockett.
No I was saying that its hard to take those typical lists of greatest players seriously when they often put Dangerfield ahead of Selwood, when it is obvious that Patrick, as much as I love him, has always had his frustrating weaknesses as a midfielder and Joel, as much as I think he may have gone on a bit too long, has always demanded the highest standards of himself and others and was the catalyst for most of our team success. I even think a lot of cats fans would have it a line ball between GAJ and Sel as the greater player, whereas the media pundits seem to put GAJ in another sphere altogether. I admit that I don't have a good read on Fyfe's standing in comparison, but I would be interested to hear whether Freo fans tend to rate him higher than say Pavlich.
 

dazbroncos

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For mine… PFD has dropped performance and output. My question is why? Is it totally just Father Time?? Or is there anything else.
he’s had sone pretty decent injuries and I’d like to see him go for 5-6 unabated games before declaring him dead and buried.
If he can’t get this 5-6 games… then we probably have the answer.

Go Catters
 

Vdubs

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I think we all roughly have similar rankings of players. Its just our terms for it are different.

the superstars of this generation for me are franklin, martin, dangerfield and fyfe. That would be it.

hawkins in the next group behind that with a bit of a gap between the first and second group. But i think he had the potential to be in the top group before his injury problems curtailed his leap.
Petracca?
 

Seeds

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For mine… PFD has dropped performance and output. My question is why? Is it totally just Father Time?? Or is there anything else.
he’s had sone pretty decent injuries and I’d like to see him go for 5-6 unabated games before declaring him dead and buried.
If he can’t get this 5-6 games… then we probably have the answer.

Go Catters
He did play 14 games in a row last season. So we kind of already have the answer.

players his age are always going to carry niggles. Old age and minor injury issues are one and the same thing.
 

Down at K Park

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He did play 14 games in a row last season. So we kind of already have the answer.

players his age are always going to carry niggles. Old age and minor injury issues are one and the same thing.
I’ve heard club people mention he never wants to miss a game, even when he’s sore and would be better off for the rest. Needs to stop being so stubborn and realise it’s only going to result in him being cooked come the end of the season. Should be clear as day to him as come the biggest games of the year he’s looked completely shot the last few years.

Someone at the club should also be checking his ego. For his own good.
 

Pure_Ownage

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He did play 14 games in a row last season. So we kind of already have the answer.

players his age are always going to carry niggles. Old age and minor injury issues are one and the same thing.

He had an interrupted pre season due to a groin injury then spent 6 weeks off legs due to ankle injury during the year. Those two things meant he didnt have the miles in his legs by the time he returned mid season so those 14 games after dont tell us much. This pre season hes doing all the work and has no injuries affecting his running load so his first 10 weeks next year will tell us whether last year was an abberation or hes in the normal post30yo decline that players have.
 

Pollywaffle

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Seeds is correct on Hawkins. The bloke cleared 200cm in the high jump at school. Now due to injuries he can't get off the ground. With his footy brain he has been able to adapt his game to become successful. He may have been discussed in the same sentence as franklin if he didn't injure his back
Yes, agree.
Very ground based these days.
Makes him easier to play on too.
Just wrestling and spillage based stuff ..
 

MacStradbroke

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I
There is one stat that puts Nat Fyfe ahead of every single player in AFL/VFL history. Leading into the 2021 season, Fyfe has averaged 1.05 Brownlow votes per game. Only Fyfe and fellow West Australian Haydn Bunton Senior (1.04) has averaged more than one Brownlow vote per game in their careers.

selwood averages 0.7 brownlow votes per game.


probably dont want to bring up brownlow votes when having this discussion. a discussion im not really interested in having. Only extremely biased geelong fans who dont really watch non geelong games are going to say selwood over fyfe

Go raise it on the main board and see what your response is.
love it that Fyfe has been brought into the discussion. Absolute gun and a worse kick than Danger, possibly the worst of all recent guns.
 

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