Daniel Harris or Amon Buchanan

[Kaiser Powser]

Er...Buchanan had 3 clearances per game, just 0.7 less clearances per game than Harris, and you should know that there are very few "easy" clearances in Swans' games.

Due to the Swannies style of play, Sydney games have more stoppages than any other team, I'm sure if Harris played for the Swans he would have even more clearances again.

 

[OBJECTIVE]

Daniel Harris hands down. Buchanan is a good player, but Harris is a clearance king and a hard nut to go with it.

 

[Pavlov's Dog]

Harris easily. Harris is a clearance king, he has been held back by injuries, but when he is on he is so physical and a real hard nut winner.

 

[OBJECTIVE]

Er...Buchanan had 3 clearances per game, just 0.7 less clearances per game than Harris, and you should know that there are very few "easy" clearances in Swans' games.

Buchanan is that rare breed of inside/outside midfielder, who can turn it on either from the bottom of packs or on the outside of packs. You will not find a single Swans supporter who calls him anything other than a hard nut (and if you watch him for 22 matches a year, you won't too). In fact you've described him in a nutshell above - "impact player," someone who turns the game. His endurance is not enough for him to do it for entire games (and while I hope he can one day I'm not convinced he ever will) but he consistently has at least one gamebreaking quarter every game, whether he's doing it from the inside or the outside.

The parts I've bolded are in my opinion, fairly hollow and biased statements:

1. If Harris played for sydney, I have no doubt he would have double the clearances that Buchanan has due to the incredibly high number of stoppages in Swans games. 3.7 clearances at the Kangaroos is a far greater achievement than 3.0 at the Swans.

2. If Buchanan had "one game breaking quarter every game" the swans would never lose. The implication is that he is a matchwinner every game... do you understand exactly what you have said?? This is about as truthful as saying Barry Hall plays fullback on a regular basis.


...if Buchanan played for the kangaroos, you wouldn't even know who he was. As it stands, he benifits greatly from playing in a highly succesful team surrounded by players that are better than him

 

[Pavlov's Dog]

I know this is irrelevant to ability.

But Buchanan has a face that just screams "smash me with a shovel" and for this reason I just can't stand him.

 

[FixterFan]

The parts I've bolded are in my opinion, fairly hollow and biased statements:

1. If Harris played for sydney, I have no doubt he would have double the clearances that Buchanan has due to the incredibly high number of stoppages in Swans games. 3.7 clearances at the Kangaroos is a far greater achievement than 3.0 at the Swans.

2. If Buchanan had "one game breaking quarter every game" the swans would never lose. The implication is that he is a matchwinner every game... do you understand exactly what you have said?? This is about as truthful as saying Barry Hall plays fullback on a regular basis.


...if Buchanan played for the kangaroos, you wouldn't even know who he was. As it stands, he benifits greatly from playing in a highly succesful team surrounded by players that are better than him

Okay, these are my arguments to refute your statements:

1) For all the talk about "more stoppages in Swans games," you'll be lucky if there were 10 more clearances per game shared between the two opposing teams, even with the extra stoppages. That's partly due to the fact that the congested centre makes repeated stoppages a common event. I don't dispute that Harris is more heavy duty inside, I just dispute the implication that Buchanan is nothing but a receiver and has no inside ability when he also consistently win the hard ball (and ranks top 50 in the league for clearances, over the likes of Daniel Cross)

2) I define "gamebreaking" as "changing the momentum and playing the major role in sustaining the dominance of the team," e.g. Goodes was gamebreaking in the 2nd half of the GF but we didn't win the game. Hell, Goodes was gamebreaking for the entire 2nd game against Adelaide in 2005 (best game by any player of any team that year according to Champions Data) but we lost by 7. If I had the tapes, I can go back to the first 16 or so games of 2006 and point out to you which quarter it was that he did this for every game (bar the Saints game where I couldn't see a thing because of the mud). But your mileage may differ because you disagree with my definition, which is fair enough.

I guess what I want to point out is that he does it both inside and outside - for the best example of his "inside" go back to the Fremantle game 2005 where the TV commentators had a short segment that highlighted that exact thing. First possessions that led to clearances, clearances himself, and second and third efforts galore.

And for the "outside" style you can look no further than the 2nd Port game in 2006 when it wasn't the fact he had 18 possessions that was important, it was the fact that for 12 or more of these possessions either the next possession was a shot on goal or the next possession was an assist (he gave the ball to someone who gave it to someone else for a shot on goal). He ranked top 5 in the competition for "kicks to marks inside 50" in 2005, and notwithstanding the fact coaches have started to wake up to him and are tagging him these days, I'll be surprised if he did not rank highly again in this stat in 2006.

p.s. and Kaiser Powser, what you misspelt sentence seem to say is that Buchanan is more or less a receiver (I read it the same as liz when I looked at it before).

 

[Kings Army]

Okay, these are my arguments to refute your statements:

1) For all the talk about "more stoppages in Swans games," you'll be lucky if there were 10 more clearances per game shared between the two opposing teams, even with the extra stoppages. That's partly due to the fact that the congested centre makes repeated stoppages a common event. I don't dispute that Harris is more heavy duty inside, I just dispute the implication that Buchanan is nothing but a receiver and has no inside ability when he also consistently win the hard ball (and ranks top 50 in the league for clearances, over the likes of Daniel Cross)

2) I define "gamebreaking" as "changing the momentum and playing the major role in sustaining the dominance of the team," e.g. Goodes was gamebreaking in the 2nd half of the GF but we didn't win the game. Hell, Goodes was gamebreaking for the entire 2nd game against Adelaide in 2005 (best game by any player of any team that year according to Champions Data) but we lost by 7. If I had the tapes, I can go back to the first 16 or so games of 2006 and point out to you which quarter it was that he did this for every game (bar the Saints game where I couldn't see a thing because of the mud). But your mileage may differ because you disagree with my definition, which is fair enough.

I guess what I want to point out is that he does it both inside and outside - for the best example of his "inside" go back to the Fremantle game 2005 where the TV commentators had a short segment that highlighted that exact thing. First possessions that led to clearances, clearances himself, and second and third efforts galore.

And for the "outside" style you can look no further than the 2nd Port game in 2006 when it wasn't the fact he had 18 possessions that was important, it was the fact that for 12 or more of these possessions either the next possession was a shot on goal or the next possession was an assist (he gave the ball to someone who gave it to someone else for a shot on goal). He ranked top 5 in the competition for "kicks to marks inside 50" in 2005, and notwithstanding the fact coaches have started to wake up to him and are tagging him these days, I'll be surprised if he did not rank highly again in this stat in 2006.

p.s. and Kaiser Powser, what you misspelt sentence seem to say is that Buchanan is more or less a receiver (I read it the same as liz when I looked at it before).

End of the day Roos would think Christmas came early if the Roos offered to swap Harris for Amon. Harris is better.

 

[FixterFan]

End of the day Roos would think Christmas came early if the Roos offered to swap Harris for Amon. Harris is better.

Different teams, different needs. At the moment we have enough inside midfielders, but don't have near enough people to kick it well inside 50. Why would you trade your best midfield deliverer inside 50 for another clearance player?

As I said before, I rate them neck to neck and Roos would too, just that even if a trade was to be offered it'll be declined.

 

[OBJECTIVE]

Okay, these are my arguments to refute your statements:

1) For all the talk about "more stoppages in Swans games," you'll be lucky if there were 10 more clearances per game shared between the two opposing teams, even with the extra stoppages. That's partly due to the fact that the congested centre makes repeated stoppages a common event. I don't dispute that Harris is more heavy duty inside, I just dispute the implication that Buchanan is nothing but a receiver and has no inside ability when he also consistently win the hard ball (and ranks top 50 in the league for clearances, over the likes of Daniel Cross)

2) I define "gamebreaking" as "changing the momentum and playing the major role in sustaining the dominance of the team," e.g. Goodes was gamebreaking in the 2nd half of the GF but we didn't win the game. Hell, Goodes was gamebreaking for the entire 2nd game against Adelaide in 2005 (best game by any player of any team that year according to Champions Data) but we lost by 7. If I had the tapes, I can go back to the first 16 or so games of 2006 and point out to you which quarter it was that he did this for every game (bar the Saints game where I couldn't see a thing because of the mud). But your mileage may differ because you disagree with my definition, which is fair enough.

I guess what I want to point out is that he does it both inside and outside - for the best example of his "inside" go back to the Fremantle game 2005 where the TV commentators had a short segment that highlighted that exact thing. First possessions that led to clearances, clearances himself, and second and third efforts galore.

And for the "outside" style you can look no further than the 2nd Port game in 2006 when it wasn't the fact he had 18 possessions that was important, it was the fact that for 12 or more of these possessions either the next possession was a shot on goal or the next possession was an assist (he gave the ball to someone who gave it to someone else for a shot on goal). He ranked top 5 in the competition for "kicks to marks inside 50" in 2005, and notwithstanding the fact coaches have started to wake up to him and are tagging him these days, I'll be surprised if he did not rank highly again in this stat in 2006.

p.s. and Kaiser Powser, what you misspelt sentence seem to say is that Buchanan is more or less a receiver (I read it the same as liz when I looked at it before).

1. I recall many occasions last year where there was significant media discussion about the fact that various Swans matches contained up to 30 more clearances than other games on the same weekend. So you simply cannot state that Harris wouldn't have more opportunity to clear the ball playing for Sydney than he would at the Kangaroos.

2. Your definition of gamebreaking is very strange, and I suspect is different to the VAST majority of people who follow AFL. Judd, Brown, Pavlich, Hall, Reiwoldt, Johnson are players who are regarded as game breakers. Not Amon Buchanan.


...don't get me wrong, Buchanan is a good player and I'd be happy to have him at Carlton. But I'd be much happier to have Harris.... that's the point of all this

 

[FixterFan]

1. I recall many occasions last year wherethere was significant media discussion about the fact that variousSwans matches contained up to 30 more clearances than other games onthe same weekend. So you simply cannot state that Harris wouldn't havemore opportunity to clear the ball playing for Sydney than he would atthe Kangaroos.

2. Your definition of gamebreaking is very strange, and I suspect isdifferent to the VAST majority of people who follow AFL. Judd, Brown,Pavlich, Hall, Reiwoldt, Johnson are players who are regarded as gamebreakers. Not Amon Buchanan.


...don't get me wrong, Buchanan is a good player and I'd be happyto have him at Carlton. But I'd be much happier to have Harris....that's the point of all this

1) Hmm...stoppages yes, clearances no. All our clearance players would be dead at the end of the match if they had to manufacture 30 more clearances between them The average increase in clearances is around 9-9.5 shared between the two teams. Why the difference? There's more oppurtunity (more stoppages), but there's more resistance too (more numbers around theball).


2) Yeah, my definition is probably kind of strange. For instance, I would call Wells a bit of a gamebreaker too, whereas I'll be less likely to call someone like Jude Bolton one, because he doesn't have "big" quarters or halves.


Like you said, I'll be more than happy to have Harris at the Swans - but I'll be much happier to have Buchanan.

 

[Kings Army]

Different teams, different needs. At the moment we have enough inside midfielders, but don't have near enough people to kick it well inside 50. Why would you trade your best midfield deliverer inside 50 for another clearance player?

As I said before, I rate them neck to neck and Roos would too, just that even if a trade was to be offered it'll be declined.

Sorry mate - Roos just called - he voted for Harris. 38 -17 sums up where they are at.

 

[jacko57]

End of the day Roos would think Christmas came early if the Roos offered to swap Harris for Amon. Harris is better.

So Roos wants the Roos to give them that Roo ? You don't think he'd rue the deal ?

 

[giantroo]

Harris has just lost 4-5 kg off his playing weight. Actually the whole team has but the point i want to make here about harris is that, last 2-3 years continuelly suffering from OP. Last year he had a great year but didnot have the tank to play past 90 minutes. This year, with the lose of the kgs he should be able to surpass that 90 minutes and all most play 110 minutes.


Harris type is hard to find, while a Buchacan can be found through any draft.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

So Roos wants the Roos to give them that Roo ? You don't think he'd rue the deal ?

But we shafted Sydney at the trade table in the deal hence the headline on the Hun the following day- "Roos Rues Roos Ruse".

 

[#1 Dogs Fan]

Daniel Harris is very underated

 

[giantroo]

Daniel Harris is very underated

Yes.

 

[STICKS4PM]

Put simply; if Harris played for the swans and had just played in consecutive grannies and won a flag, he would be a household name and a star. Consequently if Buchanan played for the Kangaroos you would be hard pressed to find someone who knew who he was or what he looked like.

Harris is by far the better player, Buchanan simply plays in a good team.

 

[FixterFan]

Put simply; if Harris played for the swans and had just played in consecutive grannies and won a flag, he would be a household name and a star. Consequently if Buchanan played for the Kangaroos you would be hard pressed to find someone who knew who he was or what he looked like.

Harris is by far the better player, Buchanan simply plays in a good team.

It is a slightly sad state of affairs, but if Harris played for the swans and had just played in consecutive grannies and won a flag, he would be a no-name, because he would be a Sydney player and hardly anyone interstate knows about Sydney players.

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

Daniel who?

 

[Scruba]

Harris by the length of flemington straight (if not more)

 

[Cats!!]

This must honestly be a joke!
Buchanan by a mile!
Harris is barely even a proven player yet.
Joke of a thread! Buchanan by a mile! this proves that there is more kangas supporters on this site!
And people who say Buchanan is soft are kidding them selves. He would walk into every team easily.

 

[Coondog 17]

Harris type is hard to find, while a Buchacan can be found through any draft.

Someone that is his teams best player in a grand final win, wow drafting must be a lot easier then i thought.

Amon for me. Drafted, delisted , re-drafted and now premiership player. Fair effort that.

 

[giantroo]

Someone that is his teams best player in a grand final win, wow drafting must be a lot easier then i thought.

Amon for me. Drafted, delisted , re-drafted and now premiership player. Fair effort that.

His no where near Harris.

 

[Footylover1]

Amon Buchanan

 

[Coondog 17]

His no where near Harris.

In your biased opinion.

I will stick with Amon thanks.