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Toast Daniel Menzel

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i think we should give hawks supporters cats memberships. They seem to be more interested in whats happening at geelong then their own club these days. We can start by granting hawthorn there very own thread on geelongs board to discuss all things geelong. Chief wants clicks .This will get him a heap. Make it happen geelong mods.
 
Cool Cat said:
Good article and pretty piss poor stuff from the cats in my opinion. Hopefully his efforts are rewarded more generously in the future, a terrific player who has wrecked his body for our club.
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Its beyond pathetic from the current admin. its enough to turn people off the club.
 

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Footy Smarts said:
I think we need to cool our expectations a bit. Yes he's a super talented attacker. But he was doing the same stuff last year at this stage and really struggled in the 2nd half of the season. On current output he's well worth a 3 year deal on significantly increased money. But I'd prefer to wait to see how he gets on through the season and end up paying a bit more than offer a big contract now only to find he still can't run out a season.
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Could have locked him away for 3 years. He was only asking for ghs type money.
 
Nakia said:
I'm not concerned with the contract length, I was responding to the fallacy that he wasn't offered one and was shopped around.
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its semantics. being offered a very sh*** contract that was basically insulting is pretty much the same as not being offered a contract.
 
moond0g said:
Agreed, was always getting a contract, maybe just not as long as he wanted.

The question for me is this, he would have easily signed a 2 year deal for $200k-250k last year, which is peanuts really for a guy who averaged 2 goals a game last year.
If he kicks 50 goals this year, which is definitely plausible, then he will rightly be asking for a 2-3 year $350-400k deal at a minimum. So it might end up costing us quite a bit more in the long run to not just sign him to a longer, but cheaper, deal last year.
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I kind of hope it does end up costing us a bit more, would be just reward and indicate that he's had a stellar year.
 
Hawk Dork said:
To correct you
It came up as a new post
and am I right ?
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Claiming to correct me would be falsely assuming that what I said was wrong.
 
Seeds said:
its semantics. being offered a very sh*** contract that was basically insulting is pretty much the same as not being offered a contract.
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Not for a blokes who's a knee injury away from retirement.
 
Seeds said:
he hasnt done a knee in 4 years.
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Nor has he got through a game without being sore or preventing him from missing weeks here and there.

It would have been mismanagement to offer him a three year deal, it's why no other club did and he chose to stay.
 

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Seeds said:
its semantics. being offered a very sh*** contract that was basically insulting is pretty much the same as not being offered a contract.
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Lol he has had 4 recos both the club and Dan would had been realistic in their negotiations

But please keep potting the club you have been doing it a lot the last few days

Bobby_ Lite these days such a bitter angry poster you’ve become since your melt last year

Get a grip
 
Cool Cat said:
Could have locked him away for 3 years. He was only asking for ghs type money.
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Mate he is one injury off retirement if he does a knee at r8 and retires under your scenario we are stuck paying him for 3 years. Which is why his contracts will rightly always be done later in the year to protect the club.
 
This is getting to be an old argument discussing what did or didn't happen last year, his contract value etc. When you break down to the facts, it's hard to blame either side for the way they handled last season and the new contract. This is Dan's 2017 season averages: 12.1 disposals, 4.3 marks & 2.1 goals, working out at a total of 40 goals, which is great having a second forward who can do that - but if you split his season you can understand why he was offered a reduced contract later in the year compared to the originally offering.

Dan was offered a 2-year deal at the start of last year. He had a really good start to last season and with his management they would have felt he was worth more than what was on the table, and would have been hoping that he if had a consistent season, they would see an increased offer - either years or money or both. Over the first 5 rounds last year this was his averages: 14.2 disposals, 5 marks & 3 goals, so 15 goals in 5 matches. Great way to start and push for that increased offer.

The he missed round 6 for management purposes, returning in round 7 to play 14 of a possible 19 matches over the rest of the season - he missed rounds 15 & 16, rounds 19 & 20, and the qualifying final (not forgetting our bye in round 12). Over those 14 matches his averages dropped to: 11.3 disposals (including a 6 single digit matches, and an equal career low 4 disposals), 4.1 marks & 1.9 goals, which worked out at 25 goals in 14 matches. So while it was a 40 goals season, it was over 1/3 of his goals kicked in the first 5 rounds of the year.

Whether it was due to fresh injury concerns or soreness in his knee/s, the fact he missed 5 of our last 12 matches may have been a bit of a concern about offering a long-term contract & his availability over a full season, and his with his drop in impact across the season, that may have been factored into the value of his contract. While he kicked a career high 40 goals last season, his 2016 season was a lot more consistent (14.9 disposals with only 1 single digit match, 4.9 marks & 1.8 goals, add in 1.9 tackles & 2.9 inside 50's which are all career highs other than goals per game) and you'd think that it was his 2016 form that would have played a part in the original 2-year offer put to him last year, and that that is what he was hoping to improve upon to increase the contract on offer.

Whether he maintains his start to this season across the remaining 20 odd rounds is yet to be seen - if he does then no doubt a bigger offer should be put on the table. But he if drops away in impact or availability due to being managed, then sure that will have to be factored into any contract.
 
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cats_09 said:
This is getting to be an old argument discussing what did or didn't happen last year, his contract value etc. When you break down to the facts, it's hard to blame either side for the way they handled last season and the new contract. This is Dan's 2017 season averages: 12.1 disposals, 4.3 marks & 2.1 goals, working out at a total of 40 goals, which is great having a second forward who can do that - but if you split his season you can understand why he was offered a reduced contract later in the year compared to the originally offering.

Dan was offered a 2-year deal at the start of last year. He had a really good start to last season and with his management they would have felt he was worth more than what was on the table, and would have been hoping that he if had a consistent season, they would see an increased offer - either years or money or both. Over the first 5 rounds last year this was his averages: 14.2 disposals, 5 marks & 3 goals, so 15 goals in 5 matches. Great way to start and push for that increased offer.

The he missed round 6 for management purposes, returning in round 7 to play 14 of a possible 19 matches over the rest of the season - he missed rounds 15 & 16, rounds 19 & 20, and the qualifying final (not forgetting our bye in round 12). Over those 14 matches his averages dropped to: 11.3 disposals (including a 6 single digit matches, and an equal career low 4 disposals), 4.1 marks & 1.9 goals, which worked out at 25 goals in 14 matches. So while it was a 40 goals season, it was over 1/3 of his goals kicked in the first 5 rounds of the year.

Whether it was due to fresh injury concerns or soreness in his knee/s, the fact he missed 5 of our last 12 matches may have been a bit of a concern about offering a long-term contract & his availability over a full season, and his with his drop in impact across the season, that may have been factored into the value of his contract. While he kicked a career high 40 goals last season, his 2016 season was a lot more consistent (14.9 disposals with only 1 single digit match, 4.9 marks & 1.8 goals, add in 1.9 tackles & 2.9 inside 50's which are all career highs other than goals per game) and you'd think that it was his 2016 form that would have played a part in the original 2-year offer put to him last year, and that that is what he was hoping to improve upon to increase the contract on offer.

Whether he maintains his start to this season across the remaining 20 odd rounds is yet to be seen - if he does then no doubt a bigger offer should be put on the table. But he if drops away in impact or availability due to being managed, then sure that will have to be factored into any contract.
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Good summation.

We are not playing tiddlywinks ... club captains have ended up elsewhere when then decided to say no an push for more..Thats the risk. And of course Menz was a FA and is a FA... so no other club decided to chime in and off him a bucket load either.
If he finishes this year strongly he will get more than chump change in his next contract Im sure.
 
Pure_Ownage said:
Mate he is one injury off retirement if he does a knee at r8 and retires under your scenario we are stuck paying him for 3 years. Which is why his contracts will rightly always be done later in the year to protect the club.
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Fair enough, we all understand that, but paying out that contract in your worst case scenario would have cost us peanuts. And it would have been the right thing to do for a loyal servant who has ruined his body for our club and diligently worked his way back to become one of our BEST players.

Sometimes the economic hard-line approach is not the best, most decent, or most ethical way to operate in life, and football is more than just a business
 
Turbocat said:
Good summation.

We are not playing tiddlywinks ... club captains have ended up elsewhere when then decided to say no an push for more..Thats the risk. And of course Menz was a FA and is a FA... so no other club decided to chime in and off him a bucket load either.
If he finishes this year strongly he will get more than chump change in his next contract Im sure.
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Well put but I would feel a lot better if a 2 year deal was on the table for 300k p.a. or so.

Give the kid some security and reward production. In all honesty $300k is unders for what he provides to our forward set up but given his injury past that's probably what Dan will face for the rest of his career. Financial security for Dan and it should fit into our pay structure.

Menz deserves it.
 

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dazbroncos said:
This dingbat merged the threads as it cover a Dan Menzel discussion.

Your discussion is entirely relevant and can be had here. If you'd like the title edited - more than happy to do it.

GO Catters
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Good job dingbat.
 
This is the quality person he is below is a message he sent directly to be young under 18 player that has just done a knee I have deleted the name and personal aspect of message but Dan is a pretty special bloke I rekon

It's Daniel Menzel here.
I got passed on the news that you tore your ACL for a 2nd time on the weekend.
No doubt you will be absolutely shattered and feel like your opportunity to put yourself out there is passing you by. This will be difficult for you to get your head around and there will be so much frustration and disappointment but know that you can come back from this and you still can achieve what you want to.
Resources nowadays that clubs have at their exposure are endless and so as much as this is a setback, they won't see this as career ending at all, so keep your spirits up that things will work out in the long run, regardless of how far away that is.
The other one is that although you will have had two serious injuries by the age of 18, you will be able to develop so much from these. You will be able to get so much stronger, more powerful and athletic in the gym to give yourself every chance to comeback a better footballer but also you will develop such resilience and strength through adversity that will put you in a great position down the track to overcome and work out how to find a way through difficult situations. People notice this too and it can become quite the asset of yours.
I hope this helps a little mate, there is nothing anyone can say that will take that disappointment away but one thing I always tried was to focus on and find the positives in this, sometimes they will be difficult to find but they will put you in a much better mindset than all of the negatives.
Keep at it mate and have confidence in yourself that you can overcome whatever is thrown at you
 
Playing very well, but he did last year as well before his body slowed him to a crawl by the pointy end.

Before letting Geelong have it remember that no other team in the league was willing to pay what Daniel wanted. We mouth breathing rabble can look at all his goals and brilliance grumble about the unfairness but these clubs do medical checks and balked at taking him. The football clubs make there decisions with far more vision and information then we have and they all let us keep him for nothing.
 
matsta1975 said:
This is the quality person he is below is a message he sent directly to be young under 18 player that has just done a knee I have deleted the name and personal aspect of message but Dan is a pretty special bloke I rekon

It's Daniel Menzel here.
I got passed on the news that you tore your ACL for a 2nd time on the weekend.
No doubt you will be absolutely shattered and feel like your opportunity to put yourself out there is passing you by. This will be difficult for you to get your head around and there will be so much frustration and disappointment but know that you can come back from this and you still can achieve what you want to.
Resources nowadays that clubs have at their exposure are endless and so as much as this is a setback, they won't see this as career ending at all, so keep your spirits up that things will work out in the long run, regardless of how far away that is.
The other one is that although you will have had two serious injuries by the age of 18, you will be able to develop so much from these. You will be able to get so much stronger, more powerful and athletic in the gym to give yourself every chance to comeback a better footballer but also you will develop such resilience and strength through adversity that will put you in a great position down the track to overcome and work out how to find a way through difficult situations. People notice this too and it can become quite the asset of yours.
I hope this helps a little mate, there is nothing anyone can say that will take that disappointment away but one thing I always tried was to focus on and find the positives in this, sometimes they will be difficult to find but they will put you in a much better mindset than all of the negatives.
Keep at it mate and have confidence in yourself that you can overcome whatever is thrown at you
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One of the silver linings to the Dan Menzel story is how he has become a mentor to others in similar situations. He’s a good human.
 

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