Universal Love David Teague

[17SetMeFree]

except if you want premiership experience!!

In front - time on last quarter in 2 grand finals. I know what you're saying , but we're splitting hairs.
In fact i prefer one who burns for a cup comming so close , rather than one who has 3 and is looking for a pension plan.
Even better if they followed the club as a school kid

 

[The Blue Baggers]

Barassi 4x
Parkin 3x (plus 1x Hawks but did leave and coach Subiaco inbetween)
Sheedy 4x
Malthouse 3x
Blight 2x + 3x GFs at the Cats
Matthews 4x
Thompson 2x
Hardwick 3x

 

[Osc1]

Think I have a pretty good handle on the definition of odds. Riddle me this-in the last 50 years how many unsuccessful sacked coaches have gone on to coach a premiership at another club?

Ergo what are the odds on the two mentioned being successful in a second stint?

Isn't that an example of odds as they relate to betting?

You’re arguing/debating with the wrong person.

 

[blue healer]

Barassi 4x
Parkin 3x (plus 1x Hawks but did leave and coach Subiaco inbetween)
Sheedy 4x
Malthouse 3x
Blight 2x + 3x GFs at the Cats
Matthews 4x
Thompson 2x
Hardwick 3x

Took me a while but I got it.

I was merely pointing out that there have been 8 coaches who have coached a premiership at the club they played for, just not multiples although technically Barrassi becomes a ninth as his first was as Captain/Coach?

 

[blue healer]

You’re arguing/debating with the wrong person.

I was responding to your post #1675?

 

[Magruder]

there are outriders ... but the % are direct lines

note Clarkson did play under Kennedy but not in a premiership himself !!

What about the odds about Voss and Leppitsch who were both sacked by the club they played with.

great point ... the other fact is multi successful coaches do not coach the team they played for ... particularly Voss should never have coached the Lions !!

Who they played under seems less relevant than where they learnt to coach, developed their philosophies etc.

 

[Coops93]

I recently had a thought re player form since Teague took over. It was initially about the interesting timing about Cripps' form inconsistencies starting around the time Teague took over and thinking about that (I was actually halfway through putting that in the What's up with Cripps thread). Then it led me down a path of thinking "Well, actually, who has come on into better form since Teague took over?".

3 I can think of. McKay, Walsh & Weitering. Though I don't think Teague can really take credit for them. McKay was under a strong development plan from Bolton who did the hard yards with him when he was younger, Walsh would be a star no matter where he was, and the same could be said for Weiters. Maybe that's not fair on Teague but I believe that.

Who else can say their game has really improved since Teague took over? Most of the guys seem to have stagnated or gone backward imo.

 

[sparkyblue]

Who else can say their game has really improved since Teague took over? Most of the guys seem to have stagnated or gone backward imo.

Well that's probably the fundamental question from both pundits and supporters alike right now. Where is the demonstration of progress as individuals and the group as a whole? People could see the potential in our draftees and young players and it just hasn't happened for the majority of them so the logical conclusion is that it's a coaching failure by not developing the talent on offer, along with failing to get the best out of players who have performed well in the past.

 

[gab213]

He can say that all he likes - he's not the messiah and plenty of people with as much or more experience than him vehemently disagree.

Gibbons should NOT be picked after 75% game time with 5 possessions when others were smashing down the door.

He clearly plays favourites, has stated very clearly he wont make statements at the selection table and thats clear. He prefers playing the older players as thats what got him his first sugar hit after Bolton - sent the kids back and brought in the older players and got a few wins.

Since then - not much chop.

He has beaten I think 1 maybe two teams from the 8 since he landed - he has only beaten 4 separate clubs since we last met doggies at the start of 2020.

3 Games have been played by players taken in the national draft who have debuted under Teague since he became coach.

I don't see anybody smashing the door down as far as selection goes, that is a problem in itself. Where's this list of players who have been picked up in the national draft in the two drafts Teague has presided over who are being held back?
Its easy to make sweeping statements, give us the names.

 

[Stamos]

I recently had a thought re player form since Teague took over. It was initially about the interesting timing about Cripps' form inconsistencies starting around the time Teague took over and thinking about that. Then it led me down a path of thinking "Well, actually, who has come on into better form since Teague took over?".

3 I can think of. McKay, Walsh & Weitering. Though I don't think Teague can really take credit for them. McKay was under a strong development plan from Bolton who did the hard yards with him when he was younger, Walsh would be a star no matter where he was, and the same could be said for Weiters. Maybe that's not fair on Teague but I believe that.

Who else can say their game has really improved since Teague took over? Most of the guys seem to have stagnated or gone backward imo.

Part of it is our poor development, which has been addressed by the club but will take some time to show results. Part of it is injuries, which have badly interrupted players' progress.

But part of it is definitely selection, both in the team and by position (Setters, Samo) which is on Teague.

Then part of it is just inexplicable (Williamson).

 

[blue healer]

I recently had a thought re player form since Teague took over. It was initially about the interesting timing about Cripps' form inconsistencies starting around the time Teague took over and thinking about that (I was actually halfway through putting that in the What's up with Cripps thread). Then it led me down a path of thinking "Well, actually, who has come on into better form since Teague took over?".

3 I can think of. McKay, Walsh & Weitering. Though I don't think Teague can really take credit for them. McKay was under a strong development plan from Bolton who did the hard yards with him when he was younger, Walsh would be a star no matter where he was, and the same could be said for Weiters. Maybe that's not fair on Teague but I believe that.

Who else can say their game has really improved since Teague took over? Most of the guys seem to have stagnated or gone backward imo.

You could also say that Bolton didn't do Weitering any good by sending him forward and, from the outside at least, seemed particularly hard on the young man.

I'd also say that Owies and Cotterill (rookies) have developed under Teague and I reckon Cuningham seems to be a more accomplished player this time in having been made earn his spot.

As for some others who may have stagnated it's a fair argument that they were all played too early in an ordinary side. Not a bad move IMO to have them learn their craft in the VFL.

I'm not totally convinced either way on Teague but he has had to deal with a lot of injuries to the younger brigade and Covid last year had a significant impact on the development of most of our kids. Stocker being the perfect example, his development has been set back a year despite being relatively injury free.

Interesting to see what transpires as the year progresses, particularly if we get into a position where it isn't mathematically possible to make finals.

 

[blue healer]

Well that's probably the fundamental question from both pundits and supporters alike right now. Where is the demonstration of progress as individuals and the group as a whole? People could see the potential in our draftees and young players and it just hasn't happened for the majority of them so the logical conclusion is that it's a coaching failure by not developing the talent on offer, along with failing to get the best out of players who have performed well in the past.

Sorry but I'm not ready to say that's a logical conclusion.

 

[sparkyblue]

Sorry but I'm not ready to say that's a logical conclusion.

It's entirely logical. We are still losing more games than we win. That's the fundamental KPI in any evaluation of a coaches success.

 

[blue healer]

It's entirely logical. We are still losing more games than we win. That's the fundamental KPI in any evaluation of a coaches success.

Seven teams this year have lost more games than they've won and four sides are even stevens, including the premiers. Don't think any of them have played five teams that were in last years finals. There are a lot of coaches in trouble if this is the fundamental KPI, including the Hawthorn supercoach.

If you want to use this as the judgement of Teague at least give him the courtesy of waiting until we have failed against some of those six other clubs.

Really getting a little tired of the sack the coaches club.

 

[Magruder]

Seven teams this year have lost more games than they've won and four sides are even stevens, including the premiers. Don't think any of them have played five teams that were in last years finals. There are a lot of coaches in trouble if this is the fundamental KPI, including the Hawthorn supercoach.

If you want to use this as the judgement of Teague at least give him the courtesy of waiting until we have failed against some of those six other clubs.

Really getting a little tired of the sack the coaches club.

Fair comment. But there are significant questions about Teague and his assistants and the Footy department in general.

 

[gab213]

It's entirely logical. We are still losing more games than we win. That's the fundamental KPI in any evaluation of a coaches success.

How many games has Teague coached for, 36? 16 wins, yes we have lost more than we have won. Clarkson after 36 games, 10 wins. Its too early in his tenure to judge him on a W/L basis. He took over a team that had won 3 of its 33 games directly before he took over. He hasn't coached one full uncompromised season yet.

Sacking him will serve no purpose other than take us even further backwards. I don't want to see us become like Richmond of the early 80s to mid 2000s where they were sacking coaches every 2 to 3 years on average. We've been bad enough ourselves in this area in recent times. The easiest thing is to sack a head coach rather than to delve into the deeper issues and sort them out.

 

[gab213]

Fair comment. But there are significant questions about Teague and his assistants and the Footy department in general.

My question would be do we have the proper people in place to provide support to any coach let alone a rookie coach? The assistants and footy department certainly need to be looked at.

 

[sparkyblue]

Really getting a little tired of the sack the coaches club.

I appreciate we all have different views and ways we measure success (or lack thereof) so what's the benchmark you'd prefer for Teague and how long do you give him?

For me, the failure to address the problem with 5+ goal runs that has happened in 23 games (63% percent of the games he's coached) is evidence enough for mine that he doesn't have what it takes and that his methods clearly aren't working. This was a known problem at the end of last year and he's had an entire offseason to develop an effective Plan B, C, or D but hasn't.

 

[sparkyblue]

Sacking him will serve no purpose other than take us even further backwards.

You can argue that keeping him will have the same result, and that another generation of talent is wasted if you do nothing to address the issues.

 

[blue healer]

Fair comment. But there are significant questions about Teague and his assistants and the Footy department in general.

With many on here those aren't questions they're demands. The guy has had less than one and a half seasons as coach and one of those seasons was only 17 games and severely Covid compromised.

Not unreasonable to give him a little more time in my opinion.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I honestly think Teague will get at least one more season (unless we fall into a heap and only win two or three more games for the season)

Obviously if he stays, it is finals or bust for us and him in 2022. That is the cutthroat nature of the footy industry.

Would be bitterly disappointed if we had to get rid of another coach after only a few years. What does that say about the culture and player development at our club ???

 

[Pixelshooter]

I don't like to jump on the "sack the coach" game. They generally need a reasonable run at it to embed their core principles and game style.

What does disturb me is our total inability to cope with sustained run-ons from opposition sides. Happens week in, week out...even when we win games there are periods when we get totally overwhelmed by our opponents. It's the same thing week after week...dishing up the same stuff and expecting a different result.

I really would have expected some development along defensive lines by now...but Teague either doesn't know how or isn't prepared to acknowledge. I really hope that changes because we'll never be more than a middle of the road side otherwise. On game day in the box, he seems almost inanimate. I see very little talk or discussion with the assistants and it just doesn't seem pro-active at all. I'd at the very least be clearing out some of the assistant coaches at the end of the season.

If nothing changes by the end of the year, I'd be moving him on.

 

[sparkyblue]

With many on here those aren't questions they're demands. The guy has had less than one and a half seasons as coach and one of those seasons was only 17 games and severely Covid compromised.

Not unreasonable to give him a little more time in my opinion.

That's a perfectly valid opinion in simply wanting to be more patient and see if he can turn it around.

I'm less forgiving at this point as I haven't seen anything that gives me the impression he can coach at the highest level yet.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Think I have a pretty good handle on the definition of odds. Riddle me this-in the last 50 years how many unsuccessful sacked coaches have gone on to coach a premiership at another club?

Ergo what are the odds on the two mentioned being successful in a second stint?

Isn't that an example of odds as they relate to betting?

Off the top of my head, can only think of

Ross Lyon
He won 7 Premierships in a row with Carlton from 2022-2028

 

[smashbox gill]

I’m willing to give Teague more time but he definately needs a lot of help. His key problems are selection, game plan, development, stopping a run of goals, in game management.

Besides from a complete clean out of line coaches, I believe he also needs a strategy/game analysis assistant and a mature age director of coaching/senior assistant to guide him on selection/giving trust to young players.

He needs someone like Hardwick had with a Caracella who has been credited with their game plan.

I have my doubts but then Buckley went through similar, but Collingwood gave him quality assistants and he put trust in them and they came close to a premiership

Justin Leppitch imo is a must get as a senior assistant this off-season