Universal Love David Teague

[Lace_Out]

Hawthorn are likely to finish 17th this season with the list I could argue is under performing.

He is cooked.

The list is rubbish but they remain competitive most weeks. He's proven what he could do with a good list.

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[gab213]

We made the decision to recruit three expensive recruits and 6th-10th was absolutely a achievable target in the 5th year of a rebuild & the age profile of the list.
Whilst your comments that we lost against good opposition by 4-5 goals reality is we lost we were in winning positions in most of those games but folded because of lack of good defensive structures and the inability to stop teams scoring quickly against us.
Maybe Teague & co have partly addressed this, but then again why would it take so long for some of these changes to occur.
Again pretty sure the club is of a similar view hence the review process.

You say 6-10, I say 7-12, there isn't any discernible difference between those for starters. Secondly, the season isn't over to be able to say we haven't met either of those marks. People have been losing their minds for months, how about we judge the season at the end of it?

You use emotive language such as 'we folded" against the teams that are clearly better than we are. I say we weren't good enough to maintain the pressure on them and contain them. Two years ago we were losing to the best teams by 10-15 goals. You can choose to look at it however you like but we weren't all that far off.From there we need to improve even more to be able to beat these teams. Lots of teams lose games after being in the lead during a game. We just aren't good enough yet.

Why would it take so long you say? One thing was available personnel. There will be quite a few players in the team this week that weren't available for selection earlier on in the season for various reasons. Before you tell me everybody has injuries, some are better placed than others to cover for them.

As far as I'm concerned we aren't done with the rebuild yet, you can say by this year of a rebuild we should be at a certain stage, I don't think you can say that.

The review into the football departments operations is a good thing which should happen on a more regular basis, I'm sure it will identify some issues and that things will change for the better. What it won't do is lay the blame at the feet of any one individual or call for sackings, its not its function.

If you wish to see everything as being so dire, be my guest. I don't see it that way. I'm as frustrated as anyone else by the lack of success but I do see positives amongst the negative stuff.

At the risk of giving you more reason to be upset this is the 6th year of the rebuild not, the 5th

 

[17SetMeFree]

I hate to say it, but we won the last 2 games by not being the dominant team for the longest. Our tackling numbers were low and we still had periods of leakage. We keep harping on about getting better assistants, well Clarko will have a line from Princes Park to the MCG for coaches wanting to be part of his team.

easy to get lost in stats/numbers. The improvement overall was driven by players that most, have cast aside.
Im not sold on clarko as senior coach. Yes, his strength was empowering assistants, as he had so many during the halcyon years, but we have a football dept cap these days, which means you'll have to get your hands dirty. Clarko as football director / manager? yep , hand up for that.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The list is rubbish but they remain competitive most weeks. He's proven what he could do with a good list.

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Clarkson is a significant reason why Hawthorn's list is so poor, he was the instigator to bring the likes of Wingard, Scully, Patton across to the Hawks

He is an ego maniac who would demand too much power at the club, esp with regards to drafting and trading.

Finally, it has to be said, Teague has not had enough time to proven himself as coach or not. It's not really his fault if some supporters have way to high expectations (I would argue in some cases unreasonable)

We have nothing to lose by giving Teague another year with a better group of assistants

 

[cookie monster]

Clarkson is a significant reason why Hawthorn's list is so poor, he was the instigator to bring the likes of Wingard, Scully, Patton across to the Hawks

He is an ego maniac who would demand too much power at the club, esp with regards to drafting and trading.

Finally, it has to be said, Teague has not had enough time to proven himself as coach or not. It's not really his fault if some supporters have way to high expectations (I would argue in some cases unreasonable)

We have nothing to lose by giving Teague another year with a better group of assistants

How long do you give Teague to demonstrate he is capable of a football concept as fundamental as selection integrity?
Or is that something that only comes with time too?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

What does punching a hole in a wall and doing dumb things with the players have to do with being an egotist? I'm not sure you know what that word means.

Why can you guarantee he won't coach us to a flag?

Yes, believing the greatest coach of the modern era could bring success to us is naïve? Lol.

Assuming we beat Geelong, how does that mean finals are on the agenda? You need 12 wins to get into the 8, maybe 11 assuming the percentage was super high.

I'm not sure how we could chain together an additional 5-6 wins, 3-4 at best imo.


Lol positive reinforcement? Are they professional athletes or a bunch of babies? Good god.

Why do you have such a hatred of Clarkson? Ian Aitken ?

Yes it is, when he's had ALL year to fix things and hasn't done anything up until bare recently, its gotten so bad we've had to have a mid-season review.

They wanted to have another crack, but didn't get there? No shame in that, I would hope we'd do the same if we were ever in that position.

Clarkson available and he's keen? No brainer, done any day of the week.

If he's not, 1 more year for Teague with good quality assistants ffs, a lot of the good ones were signed up last year, completely ridiculous how we missed out.

But end of the day, I'm just a babbling campaigner on a footy forum, trust the club to get the review right.

But Moneybags as I've rambled previously will 10000% be gunning for Clarkson, so if he's keen don't be surprised to see him coach Carlton.

How do you actually know Clarkson is keen on coaching us anyway ?

I don't think he is the type to walk away from Hawthorn at the end of the season cause he was miffed by the Mitchell succession plan anyway.

Unless you are privy to inside information, I just cannot see Clarkson not coaching Hawthorn in 2022 anyway (after that who knows)

Also the season and finals hopes of the club is not over yet, I get why some find Clarkson appealling, but i find some fans constantly wanting Teague to fail somewhat distasteful.

 

[gab213]

How long do you give Teague to demonstrate he is capable of a football concept as fundamental as selection integrity?
Or is that something that only comes with time too?

I'd say that it would be reasonable to give him more than two years to prove himself as a rookie coach. We aren't Melbourne under Neeld or St.Kilda under Watters from 2013. We aren't the total basketcase that those two clubs were.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

How do you actually know Clarkson is keen on coaching us anyway ?

I don't think he is the type to walk away from Hawthorn at the end of the season cause he was miffed by the Mitchell succession plan anyway.

Unless you are privy to inside information, I just cannot see Clarkson not coaching Hawthorn in 2022 anyway (after that who knows)

Also the season and finals hopes of the club is not over yet, I get why some find Clarkson appealling, but i find some fans constantly wanting Teague to fail somewhat distasteful.

Not at all, you're correct, for all we know he could go nah those Bluebagger campaigners can get ****ed.

But if he were at all keen, we'd be absolutely remiss not to pursue it, I would assume Money bags would of been in his ear by now already.

I don't think its wanting Teague to fail, its more a mixture of disappointment in what's happened in regards to his coaching, selection integrity etc.

A pertinent point for both sides of the aisle though, is Teague hasn't had the support to do what he needs to do.

He's absolutely done some baffling stupid decisions, but like I've said before, where's his support? Where's the mentor, the assistant coaches that have a clue etc. Lloyd is too blame for that.

Why are we bringing in Woosha via Zoom etc etc.

End of the day, awaiting the review's conclusions and see what they say I suspect it will be Teague desperately needs support and he'll see out 2022, but who knows really.

 

[Markyd]

If we move Teague on, who's your candidate? Strongly disagree Clarkson has an end date. Dunstall on 360 saying he still has an immense coaching passion.

For sustained club success, most coaches need to be in the hot seat for at least 7-10 years, that's what we need to find and replicate.
Clarkson loves Hawthorn that's his team he built it and he's rebuilding it... I'm not surprised he still has the passion to coach that team.
Over the years Clarkson would have had silly money offers thrown at him, Carlton would have been one of them, but he has stayed loyal.

Hawks have made the right call, from all reports Mitchell is going to be an excellent long term replacement, and would have been my pick if Teague got sacked this year.
But I still hope Teague can be our man, time will tell.

 

[gab213]

Not at all, you're correct, for all we know he could go nah those Bluebagger campaigners can get f’ed.

But if he were at all keen, we'd be absolutely remiss not to pursue it, I would assume Money bags would of been in his ear by now already.

I don't think its wanting Teague to fail, its more a mixture of disappointment in what's happened in regards to his coaching, selection integrity etc.

A pertinent point for both sides of the aisle though, is Teague hasn't had the support to do what he needs to do.

He's absolutely done some baffling stupid decisions, but like I've said before, where's his support? Where's the mentor, the assistant coaches that have a clue etc. Lloyd is too blame for that.

Why are we bringing in Woosha via Zoom etc etc.

End of the day, awaiting the review's conclusions and see what they say I suspect it will be Teague desperately needs support and he'll see out 2022, but who knows really.

I have to ask, who is moneybags?

 

[CarltonBlooz]

I have to ask, who is moneybags?

Mathieson, another poster alluded to a board member being friendly with Clarko, before that another poster alluded to Mathieson wanting to go all in on Clarkson.

I may have my facts incorrectly, but all the dots connect imo.

 

[gab213]

Hmmm, okay. Really, I would doubt that Bruce would have any influence over anything to do with a coaching appointment. I wouldn't even assume that he has influence over his nephew who is the Mathieson who is on the board but who knows?

 

[blueboy25]

Why?
Leigh Matthews was a statue, Clarko punched walls. Roos and horse are like Matthews and scott like clarko.

Everyone has their own style..and each of the above won premierships.

Roos, Horse and Matthews were not statues. They may not have yelled and screamed all the time like Scott but they got angry, they got excited in the coaches box.

They didn't sit there staring out the window showing no emotion.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I get the anti Clarkson agenda amongst the haters. He is a campaigner after all...


a campaigner with four flags.

 

[blueboy25]

Mathieson, another poster alluded to a board member being friendly with Clarko, before that another poster alluded to Mathieson wanting to go all in on Clarkson.

I may have my facts incorrectly, but all the dots connect imo.

Does the soft cap not exist anymore?

One thing everyone complains about is development.

So we bring in Clarkson on big bucks which leaves less money for quality assistant coaches and development coaches.

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Hmmm, okay. Really, I would doubt that Bruce would have any influence over anything to do with a coaching appointment. I wouldn't even assume that he has influence over his nephew who is the Mathieson who is on the board but who knows?

Yeah, lot of speculation on my part, just rambling what other posters have said before.

Hope they get it right and if Teague is given the A-OK by the review, get him the support and mentoring he needs, no half-measures this time thanks CFC.

 

[blueboy25]

I get the anti Clarkson agenda amongst the haters. He is a campaigner after all...


a campaigner with four flags.

And Malthouse was a campaigner with 3 flags and Pagan had two flags.

How did they go?

 

[gab213]

Yeah, lot of speculation on my part, just rambling what other posters have said before.

Hope they get it right and if Teague is given the A-OK by the review, get him the support and mentoring he needs, no half-measures this time thanks CFC.

They will need to make a decision either way and get behind whoever is coach 100% to give us a chance to succeed. You're 100% right

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Does the soft cap not exist anymore?

One thing everyone complains about is development.

So we bring in Clarkson on big bucks which leaves less money for quality assistant coaches and development coaches.

We already have development coaches? Power + O'Keefe unless you'd want someone new?

Slow and steady fix for development.

As for dollarydoos, would Clarkson really be that expensive we'd be bereft of hiring any good assistants?

Assuming Teague got the flick, 6 month payout.

How much is the soft cap?

 

[gab213]

Roos, Horse and Matthews were not statues. They may not have yelled and screamed all the time like Scott but they got angry, they got excited in the coaches box.

They didn't sit there staring out the window showing no emotion.

Talk about clutching at straws, I would love for someone to explain to me what the relevance of this is in assessing a person's ability to perform a job. I also wonder whether people spend 100 minutes watching the coach's box rather than the game to make this observation or are they relying on when the tv cameras decide to cut to him for 2 seconds.

 

[Red Bull]

Does the soft cap not exist anymore?

One thing everyone complains about is development.

So we bring in Clarkson on big bucks which leaves less money for quality assistant coaches and development coaches.

I believe you can pay over the soft cap but if you do, the AFL impose a levy.
It has been previously reported that if we were to land Clarkson, Mathieson would pick up the tab …

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Clarkson is a significant reason why Hawthorn's list is so poor, he was the instigator to bring the likes of Wingard, Scully, Patton across to the Hawks

He is an ego maniac who would demand too much power at the club, esp with regards to drafting and trading.

Assumptions based on what? Based on the fact you need some semblence of evidence, fictional even, to support your tirade. Every list goes back down. Thats the point of the draft system. Stop talking out your ass, it was a Hawthorn club wide agreement to push for another flag, the list management team had most of the power in going for that strategy, it failed. It hardly set them back whatsoever. A full list rebuild was coming anyway. This is tripe.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

And Malthouse was a campaigner with 3 flags and Pagan had two flags.

How did they go?

The same as every other Carlton coach post Parkin.
Your point?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Not me. I'm not even the smartest in my stable. Sure I've got it over the parrot living in the rafters, but wee Jock the shetland?
Sharp as a whip that one.

I'm not even the smartest in my current room, and it's only me and the cat. Pretty sure he knows he's the smartest too.

 

[gab213]

The same as every other Carlton coach post Parkin.
Your point?

And most before him too.