Dawes V Rocca

[Skade]

Can we fit both of these big Guy's in the fwd line.

We know how valuable a fit and firing Rocca is to Collingwood but if Rocca keeps his spot will this leave Chris relegated to the VFL.

What are your opinions??

 

[3066]

Rocca won't get out of the forward 50 whereas Dawes whose running preseason seems to be going great eg 4th in the 2km time trials, just opens his role a bit more. He could even maybe rotate with Trav to give him a break and do runs down the wing? Imagine if we had the option of having hard running tall forwards on either side of the wing? Left and right footers.

I'm luvin' the fact we've got all this talent and it's hard to work out what will happen.

At the moment though Dawes is not a replace for BIG Ant in a FF possie. A fully fit Rocca adds so much to our team.

 

[The Dawes]

2009 will probably be a transitional year where the likes of Dawes and Rusling will gradually decrease our reliance on Rocca.

With luck all three will remain injury free.

 

[Snag Breac]

^^^^^What 3066 said. They'll both contribute, with the extent of Rocca's involvement dependant on how he recovers from injury. If everyone stays fit, we'll have an embarrassment of riches in the forward line.


It's not so much Dawes V Rocca, as the thought of the damage they could do together.

 

[daics cousin]

As much as i like Rocca,i doubt whether he can last the whole year,playing week in week out.Obviously he is not the Rocca of 2002-2003 but plonk him in the forward pocket and let him sit there.He'll always take the best defender.
I like the idea of having Dawes and Travis moving up the ground on either wings,this will open up our forward line have rocca ,rusling and medhurst or Corrie or Didak causing havoc deep forward and travis and dawes tearing up the ground,what a nightmare for opposition backlines.

This also allows john anthony to switch back and forward,sheezz, having this luxury will definately cause opposing coaches, headaches on how they can contain our forwards,and if our midfield lifts a cogg or two look out !!!!!

 

[Dave The Man]

2009 will probably be a transitional year where the likes of Dawes and Rusling will gradually decrease our reliance on Rocca.

With luck all three will remain injury free.

Those Rocca is becoming Injury Prone

 

[shawthing09]

I can't believe some of the over rating of kids on the boards. Dawes is miles off being AFL ready and will benifit from the time in the VFL. Of course if he was able to play a third tall role it would be beneficial but we aren't about gifting kids games here and as such he should play most of next year at VFL level.

 

[mdc]

I can't believe some of the over rating of kids on the boards. Dawes is miles off being AFL ready and will benifit from the time in the VFL. Of course if he was able to play a third tall role it would be beneficial but we aren't about gifting kids games here and as such he should play most of next year at VFL level.

I think you're forgetting about Dawes' 2km time-trial. No defender is going to be able to stay with him over that distance. Sure, they might be able to keep up over the first 1-1.5kms, but he's bound to burn them off over the last 500m of his lead.

Unfortunately, since Rusling is going to kick 70+ goals this season, I fear that Dawes will miss out on his accolades. But as long as Blight is extracting the ball from middle and Sidebottom is bounding up the wing with his undetectable pace, both Rus and Dawes should get tons of ball.

 

[itwdandy]

Rocca will only play 12-15 games for the year! Guarantee it!! MM will do what he did with Bucks in his last year.
IMO Rocca will not travel interstate and he will only play 60% of a game. I think personally, MM will use Rocca solely to take the oppositions best defender. If he kicks a few goals along the way it will be a bonus for us.

We actually don't need his contribution (goal wise) as such, tho obviously it would help, so much as we need him to take the oppositions best defender, which leaves a gapping whole for Medders, Rus, Dawes, Anthony, Trav, Dids etc...

Its like the "Buddy Therom" sure you put your best defender on him, he might only kick 2-3.... job done right??
but then who's gonna stop Rough, Williams, Dew, Boyle etc... kicking goals...

I think we have to take on that same idea that the Hawks did.. Sure there midfield is the 2nd best in the comp but i think they won the premiership coz they had too many forwards for the oppostion to deal with....

THATS THE ANGLE WE NEED TO TAKE NEXT YEAR!!

 

[Optimax]

Its really simple if rocca is fit he'll play

rocca played less games and kicked more goals then dawes, so stats back him up.

The only thing is how fit will rocca be all season

 

[shawthing09]

Its really simple if rocca is fit he'll play

rocca played less games and kicked more goals then dawes, so stats back him up.

The only thing is how fit will rocca be all season

It really is that simple opti. I fail to see how people don't understand. Rocca did so with the best defender and played a sacrificial role against Geelong.

 

[Skade]

Its really simple if rocca is fit he'll play

rocca played less games and kicked more goals then dawes, so stats back him up.

The only thing is how fit will rocca be all season

But do you think we can fit them both in the side.

 

[Optimax]

But do you think we can fit them both in the side.

no

its rocca, cloke, anthony/rusling
or dawes, cloke, anthony/rusling

dawes could play a cloke role too, but we wont see cloke dropped

 

[popathon]

I'm not too impressed with Dawes at this stage. Rocca is streets ahead of Dawes and the only thing stopping him is injuries. Pebs will help cloke, i can't really see Dawes doing the same (at this stage).

 

[PieLebo87]

I think you're forgetting about Dawes' 2km time-trial. No defender is going to be able to stay with him over that distance. Sure, they might be able to keep up over the first 1-1.5kms, but he's bound to burn them off over the last 500m of his lead.

Unfortunately, since Rusling is going to kick 70+ goals this season, I fear that Dawes will miss out on his accolades. But as long as Blight is extracting the ball from middle and Sidebottom is bounding up the wing with his undetectable pace, both Rus and Dawes should get tons of ball.

LOL Smartarse of the Year Award

I agree with mdc and shawthing. As I stated in my Players Expectations thread, I believe Dawes needs to spend a solid season at VFL level, with our developing young midfielders kicking enormous bags of goal and developing his own game even further before he is involved at AFL level again. He was playing senior footy late last year because Rusling, then Rocca and Reid went down with season-ending injuries, not because Dawes was cintilating (sp?).

You want to see him have a Franklin/Fevola-type season at VFL level this year more-so than play 10 or so games at AFL level because that confidence will do him the world of good after his knee reco. I can only dream of a tall forward line absolutely dominating with Rocca, Rusling and Anthony/Reid thats keeping a young Dawes out who is kicking big bags every week, but its actually the best scenario for us, because we can't be exposing him too early.

 

[Optimax]

LOL Smartarse of the Year Award

I agree with mdc and shawthing. As I stated in my Players Expectations thread, I believe Dawes needs to spend a solid season at VFL level, with our developing young midfielders kicking enormous bags of goal and developing his own game even further before he is involved at AFL level again. He was playing senior footy late last year because Rusling, then Rocca and Reid went down with season-ending injuries, not because Dawes was cintilating (sp?).

You want to see him have a Franklin/Fevola-type season at VFL level this year more-so than play 10 or so games at AFL level because that confidence will do him the world of good after his knee reco. I can only dream of a tall forward line absolutely dominating with Rocca, Rusling and Anthony/Reid thats keeping a young Dawes out who is kicking big bags every week, but its actually the best scenario for us, because we can't be exposing him too early.

i agree that dawes played due to injuries but we did hold him back until his form warranted it, he had kicked multiple goals for a month or so before we promoted him.

But right now rocca will play before dawes, its simple

 

[The Dawes]

I can't believe some of the over rating of kids on the boards. Dawes is miles off being AFL ready and will benifit from the time in the VFL. Of course if he was able to play a third tall role it would be beneficial but we aren't about gifting kids games here and as such he should play most of next year at VFL level.

Don't think it's as simple as overrating the kids - it's being realistic that Rocca is coming towards the end of his career and with his injury history it's likely that 2009 might be his swansong - and as such we need to get some games into the likes of Chris Dawes.

Even if Rocca is fit all year there's a god chance he won't play every week to ensure he's in reasonable shape come the pointy end, so someone will need to fill that void when he's out and Dawes is the obvious replacement given his eforts at the end of this year - particularly in the Adelaide final.

 

[shawthing09]

Don't think it's as simple as overrating the kids - it's being realistic that Rocca is coming towards the end of his career and with his injury history it's likely that 2009 might be his swansong - and as such we need to get some games into the likes of Chris Dawes.

Even if Rocca is fit all year there's a god chance he won't play every week to ensure he's in reasonable shape come the pointy end, so someone will need to fill that void when he's out and Dawes is the obvious replacement given his eforts at the end of this year - particularly in the Adelaide final.

The thing is we have blooded enough youngsters. It is not like a lack of youth is hurting us. We also have a young list. It's not like if we struggle up foward for a season or so while the younger guys adapt to the level we will miss our window of oppertunity. So pretty much there is no excuse for not playing the best possible side. Even if Rocca plays for the next 2 seasons he will be the best possible FF ahead of Dawes.

 

[spartan-magpie]

totally agree with ST^^

rocca is still our most important big man.. he might not be our number one forward anymore (that is now cloke)but i still believe rocca is our most imprtant player... uses his body well, straightens the team up, crunches players, generally plays well in finals, best contested mark in the league, and vital to our forward line set ups...

dawes, i have no doubt, will become the perfect replacement for pebs.. he is strong, a good mark, a good kick(although he looks a little awkward when kicking) and has reportedly good stamina.... most importantly he seems to know how to play the game...
but is still very inexperienced and he, imo, requires some more size.. especially his legs which seem kinda skinny...

 

[Dave The Man]

Don't think it's as simple as overrating the kids - it's being realistic that Rocca is coming towards the end of his career and with his injury history it's likely that 2009 might be his swansong - and as such we need to get some games into the likes of Chris Dawes.

Even if Rocca is fit all year there's a god chance he won't play every week to ensure he's in reasonable shape come the pointy end, so someone will need to fill that void when he's out and Dawes is the obvious replacement given his eforts at the end of this year - particularly in the Adelaide final.

We Know you Stance of Dawes that he is not Close to AFL Standerd and Has a Long way to go.

I think you been harsh with Dawes and I think he might not Quite up to AFL Level but not quite as bad as you make it sound

 

[The Dawes]

The thing is we have blooded enough youngsters. It is not like a lack of youth is hurting us. We also have a young list. It's not like if we struggle up foward for a season or so while the younger guys adapt to the level we will miss our window of oppertunity. So pretty much there is no excuse for not playing the best possible side. Even if Rocca plays for the next 2 seasons he will be the best possible FF ahead of Dawes.

In a perfect world Rocca would play all year and be a force and Dawes would continue his development at VFL level, but I don't think that's realistic.

Given Rocca is likely to miss games, we might as well get Dawes into the side and fast track him so that when our window opens - if it isn't in 2009 - we have at least a couple of key forwards (Cloke & Dawes and/or Rusling) who can help us win a flag.

Also, not sure you can assume Rocca will still be a better option than Dawes by the time 2010 rolls around; a lot can happen before then.

 

[Dave The Man]

In a perfect world Rocca would play all year and be a force and Dawes would continue his development at VFL level, but I don't think that's realistic.

Given Rocca is likely to miss games, we might as well get Dawes into the side and fast track him so that when our window opens - if it isn't in 2009 - we have at least a couple of key forwards (Cloke & Dawes and/or Rusling) who can help us win a flag.

Also, not sure you can assume Rocca will still be a better option than Dawes by the time 2010 rolls around; a lot can happen before then.

Bloody Oath, Just look a N Brown was playing in the VFL Reserves at years end in 06 and Look at him now 1 season on and With Dawes looks like he is just about over his Knee, He could improve out of sight

Plus I really Doubt Rocca will play more than Half the games anyway

 

[PieLebo87]

No one is expecting Rocca to play every single game. Hell, he might even struggle in a few, but as long as Anthony Rocca is still on a Collingwood list and healthy, he will be in the seniors. Theres no doubting that MM will possibly rest him here and there, and that might mean Dawes comes up for a few games, but I could also see Anthony being thrown deep into FF and someone like Beams, Blight, Rounds or Barham being the straight swap for Rocca and being thrown onto HBF or BP if they're playing a whole heap better than Dawes in the VFL.

Point being, Rocca isn't a midfielder, so don't think he'll have to keep missing games to keep him fresh, because he barely even runs around in the forward line other than making a few leads per quarter and a chase here and there, thats barely enough to tire out a proffessional athlete. He might miss 3-4 games, unless he gets injuried, but I don't see him being 'rested' for any more.


Medhurst, Cloke, Didak/Thomas
Rusling, Rocca, Dick

Thats how I see it before any rotations.

 

[shawthing09]

Bloody Oath, Just look a N Brown was playing in the VFL Reserves at years end in 06 and Look at him now 1 season on and With Dawes looks like he is just about over his Knee, He could improve out of sight

Plus I really Doubt Rocca will play more than Half the games anyway

Brown was good but is still second best too Presti in our side. Brown did a couple of great jobs for a young defender and had an outstanding year for a young defender. Yet is a player is behind Presti difference is we don't have the same depth in the defence for him to be in doubt of his possie.

Dawes on the other hand was promising as a young foward but not AFL ready. Dawes is well and truely over his knee. His mobility is fine. Your knees have nothing to do with hand eye co-ordination. Or control of your arms over your head. He is behind Cloke, Rocca, Rusling, Anthony and IMO = to Reid in terms of being an AFL ready foward. Rusling, Rocca, Cloke will do just fine. If Dawes plays a few games while Rocca "rests" or is injured all good and well. We still in that foward line have 2 10 year fowards in Rusling and Cloke and if Rusling gets injured Anthony should come in for him because he fits the same role in the structure.

 

[Pie eyed]

After Rocca has taught Dawes how to be an AFL forward then and only then will Dawes door be open.
Dawes played some solid games late last year but he has a way to go before he will unseat the "Roc".
I would like to see Dawes play as many game with Rocca as possible this season.


(See Shawthing09's post....it sums up where Dawes is exactly)