Dawes vs. Anthony

[mdc]

Re: dawes vs anthony

True. Generally in games against other top sides, it is the midfield movement, and which team gets on top in that area, that determines victory. I often wonder, and curious to know what you think, if Dawes had played against the Saints, whether the result would have been a little different? He straightens us up, and the one thing I think he has over Anthony is that, whilst both may 'crash packs' Dawes is more effective with the second and third efforts in those packs when the ball hits the ground. Purely because of his strength. And I don't want to sound like a JA detractor either, I simply think Jack needs to get some size on him. The fact that his shoulder injury prevented him from building up some muscle in the pre-season has cost him his position. He needs size. Once he gets it he'll lock in his position in the starting 22. No doubt. Over the next few years, I see Jack developing into the new Daniel Bradshaw.

Not sure about the Saints game this year. It was a weird game, to say the least. I will say that given the Saints are the only one of our 3 rivals with an exploitable full-back, I thought it was a bit silly going in without either Jack or Dawes.

And I pretty much agree 100% with the rest of your post. Daniel Bradshaw is the comparison I used for Jack early last year as well, I think it's spot on - but yes, as you mentioned he needs to get much stronger.

Also, I still firmly believe Dawes' best position is CHF, not FF. By some margin too. In any case, will certainly be interesting watching him develop this year.

 

[mdc]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I hope that when JA returns up forward in one capacity or another, he stays out of Cloke's leading space (and vice versa of course).

That to me has been wildly overstated. Jack is still learning where to lead and when to stay back, but it's not Cloke's space he was interfering with, it was Medhurst's.

In fact, given how wide and far Cloke leads, I'm not sure there's too many key forwards who are physically able to interfere with Cloke's leads!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Not sure about the Saints game this year. It was a weird game, to say the least. I will say that given the Saints are the only one of our 3 rivals with an exploitable full-back, I thought it was a bit silly going in without either Jack or Dawes.

And I pretty much agree 100% with the rest of your post. Daniel Bradshaw is the comparison I used for Jack early last year as well, I think it's spot on - but yes, as you mentioned he needs to get much stronger.

Also, I still firmly believe Dawes' best position is CHF, not FF. By some margin too. In any case, will certainly be interesting watching him develop this year.

It made me cry like a little girl.

On the plus side, it's something we can hold out hope for in the return bout, a forward line with, you know like... forwards... in it...

 

[loki04]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I don't really buy into this, because I don't think it's a matter of one or the other. I do, however, believe that Dawes is far superior at allowing Cloke to play at his best, so I hope that when JA returns up forward in one capacity or another, he stays out of Cloke's leading space (and vice versa of course).

Was mentioned on the commentary that Cloke and Dawes were blocking for each other and creating gaps for the other to lead (akin to Taz and Rocca used too). This is something that JA needs to work on imo.

But I'm with you I don't think it should be an "and" "or" debate, JA could play as the 3rd tall and well imo.

 

[mdc]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Was mentioned on the commentary that Cloke and Dawes were blocking for each other and creating gaps for the other to lead.

I was watching Travis very closely when in 2 quarters that we were kicking to the Punt Rd end, and I can't say I saw that happen even once. May have been going on down the other end though.

 

[loki04]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I was watching Travis very closely when in 2 quarters that we were kicking to the Punt Rd end, and I can't say I saw that happen even once. May have been going on down the other end though.

Fair enough I can only go on what the commentary team said Walls made mention of it, they bunched there defenders up and 1 blocked while the other led.

If they aren't doing it they should be.

 

[doppleganger]

As other's have mentioned I feel it is more a choice of the best 2 out of Dawes, Medhurst and Anthony.

Dawes has more of a presence being 100kgs, instead of JA's 90kgs, and for that reason I would currently prefer Dawes.

Medhurst plays as a leading option, in 08 Medhurst had a good year....in 09 it was JA....not sure they fit together very well though.

Also have to think about the rest of the team.

Presti will have to come back.....most likely at the expense of N.Brown or Reid, if Reid we lose a valuable attacking option...hence why I think Reid will be preferred to N.Brown.

Also have the ruck, Jolly and Wood for the next few weeks.....with Fraser waiting in the wings too.

With all the talls, it starts to become tough to fit all our runners in

B - Toovey, Presti, Harry
HB - Maxwell, Reid, Heater
C - Thomas, Swan, B.Johnson
HF - Didak, Cloke, L.Davis
F - Medhurst, Dawes, Dick
Foll - Jolly, Pendles, Ball

Int - Wood, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham

If we play Dawes-Anthony-Cloke which player do you leave out from the above....and how will that influence our structures, rotations and ability to run out games??

 

[Go_collingwood_]

seriously alot of people on here talk as if dawes kicked 50 last season and JA is the AFL listed player in the VFL

seriously people last season from other teams were saying JA was the best kick in the comp

 

[DoubleO7]

seriously alot of people on here talk as if dawes kicked 50 last season and JA is the AFL listed player in the VFL

seriously people last season from other teams were saying JA was the best kick in the comp

And what relevance does that have with the current season? Dawes is the inform player, not Anthony. Forget what he did last season, it's all about now.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: dawes vs anthony

It made me cry like a little girl.

On the plus side, it's something we can hold out hope for in the return bout, a forward line with, you know like... forwards... in it...

I was Pissed Off that Our So Called Genius Coach in Mick made such a Stuff Up

 

[TradeDraft]

seriously alot of people on here talk as if dawes kicked 50 last season and JA is the AFL listed player in the VFL

seriously people last season from other teams were saying JA was the best kick in the comp

A season is a long time in Footy too

 

[Optimax]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I was Pissed Off that Our So Called Genius Coach in Mick made such a Stuff Up

So you reckon you could have coached us to 6 wins eh Dave?

Really getting tired of the dig posts you make for no apparent reasons, we damn near won the game against the saints and the fact we played a running game dawes really wouldnt have helped that much

But you know keep making digs because your a gun afl coach in your own right, oh wait..

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: dawes vs anthony

So you reckon you could have coached us to 6 wins eh Dave?

Really getting tired of the dig posts you make for no apparent reasons, we damn near won the game against the saints and the fact we played a running game dawes really wouldnt have helped that much

But you know keep making digs because your a gun afl coach in your own right, oh wait..

No But that is a Obvious Choice that 90% of people said had to be Done. I could see Mick was trying to have a Small Forward Line to Counter Act the Defensive Pressure that the Saint try and do. But if Back Fired and he did not try to exploit there big weakness and Dawson.

I never coach AFL at any level so I have No Idea how I would of Gone.

How about get off your High Horse and Always Backing Micky

 

[Optimax]

Re: dawes vs anthony

No But that is a Obvious Choice that 90% of people said had to be Done. I could see Mick was trying to have a Small Forward Line to Counter Act the Defensive Pressure that the Saint try and do. But if Back Fired and he did not try to exploit there big weakness and Dawson.

I never coach AFL at any level so I have No Idea how I would of Gone.

How about get off your High Horse and Always Backing Micky

dawson got smashed, and im not sure you can say a small forward line backfired when it had more scoring shots then the opposition.

Ill stop standing up for malthouse when people stop sticking the boots in when its unwarranted, you have a trollesque way of getting one in every week

 

[Pie eyed]

Re: dawes vs anthony

I was Pissed Off that Our So Called Genius Coach in Mick made such a Stuff Up

Genius is not a fickle, here one day gone the next, back again thing Dave.

Jack was out of form and Dawes was just getting a run in the first VFL game.

Hindsight is a fabulous thing but only in hindsight.
In hindsight if Sidey had taken another few seconds with his shot in the first minute and Harry had not gobbed off at the umpire and given Goddard a gimme goal in the 3rd minute then we would have won.
How do you blame MM for this? How would Dawes have changed these occurrences? What if 2 of our numerous points were on target?

Sometimes you can lay blame on a coach or a game plan...not in the Saints instance. Not at all in fact the opposite.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: dawes vs anthony

Genius is not a fickle, here one day gone the next, back again thing Dave.

Jack was out of form and Dawes was just getting a run in the first VFL game.

Hindsight is a fabulous thing but only in hindsight.
In hindsight if Sidey had taken another few seconds with his shot in the first minute and Harry had not gobbed off at the umpire and given Goddard a gimme goal in the 3rd minute then we would have won.
How do you blame MM for this? How would Dawes have changed these occurrences? What if 2 of our numerous points were on target?

Sometimes you can lay blame on a coach or a game plan...not in the Saints instance. Not at all in fact the opposite.

Agree Mick can do some smart things but he can also go the other way just as Easily.

Fair Enough on JA but Dawes had Kick Bags in the VFL Before the Saints Game but I guess you could say he needed a few runs in the VFL H&A Season 1st

 

[Dawesome]

Re: dawes vs anthony

 

[Woods17]

Anthony may be a good shot at goal but he is not the forward that we need. Jack can't take a contested mark against a key defender, and when he tries to beat his opponent in a one on one contest he rarely wins. His body work in contests is actually embarrassing. I know all those that favour Anthony will say that he kicked 50 goals last season and is an accurate kick for goal, but i reckon Dawes would have kicked 50 in 2009 if he was given the opportunity. It was a disgrace to see that Collingwood fans had chosen him in our team of the past decade - he hasn't even played 50 games yet.

Dawes is the better option up forward. Him and Cloke as our key forwards complements our mid and small forwards perfectly. There is no doubt that Dawes is the better contested player and if he doesnt mark the ball he will bring it down to our smaller forwards. They almost the same in regards to their defensive pressure, Dawes is probaly better when the ball is in dispute. Anthony may be a better kick, but Dawes isn't a bad kick and if JA can't get the footy then his kicking is irrelevant.

Keys forwards win you football games, especially finals. Anthony is not strong enough or good enough to wins us games against the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and the Dogs - as the 09 finals series showed. The Clokle-Dawes mix is the better option up forward. The 09 final series proved this. If anyone does not beleive this then they are doomed to constantly watch us lose against the Sainst and Cats.

 

[PokerPies]

Anthony may be a good shot at goal but he is not the forward that we need.

Totally agree.

 

[TradeDraft]

Anthony may be a good shot at goal but he is not the forward that we need. Jack can't take a contested mark against a key defender, and when he tries to beat his opponent in a one on one contest he rarely wins. His body work in contests is actually embarrassing. I know all those that favour Anthony will say that he kicked 50 goals last season and is an accurate kick for goal, but i reckon Dawes would have kicked 50 in 2009 if he was given the opportunity. It was a disgrace to see that Collingwood fans had chosen him in our team of the past decade - he hasn't even played 50 games yet.

Dawes is the better option up forward. Him and Cloke as our key forwards complements our mid and small forwards perfectly. There is no doubt that Dawes is the better contested player and if he doesnt mark the ball he will bring it down to our smaller forwards. They almost the same in regards to their defensive pressure, Dawes is probaly better when the ball is in dispute. Anthony may be a better kick, but Dawes isn't a bad kick and if JA can't get the footy then his kicking is irrelevant.

Keys forwards win you football games, especially finals. Anthony is not strong enough or good enough to wins us games against the likes of Geelong, St Kilda and the Dogs - as the 09 finals series showed. The Clokle-Dawes mix is the better option up forward. The 09 final series proved this. If anyone does not beleive this then they are doomed to constantly watch us lose against the Sainst and Cats.

Very Well Said