Dawn Service

[schneebly111]

Most decorated soldier we have and someone has a dig at his amount of medals. Probably this same individual praises our AFP commissioner for her amount of medals which doubles the amount BRS has earned.

Did you know the awarding of decorations under the Australian Honours System is not limited to military personnel only?

The AFP Commissioner has a lot of service medals. You know why? Because she's completed 25 years of service in the Federal Police (longer than BRS was in the Army). She has medals for operational service as an ACT Patrol officer, policing in the organised crime and counter terrorism units, overseas deployments to Bali and the Solomon Islands, emergency medals for service during ACT bushfires and other natural disasters, and medals in recognition of her long service in the AFP.

She earned every single one of the medals she wears. Every single one of them.

The same far right manosphere f*ckwits who mock Commissioner Barrett for the medals she's earnt in her service are total losers who won't contribute even 0.0000000001% to this nation of what Commissioner Barrett has.

She's also done far more for this nation than BRS has...............

 

[schneebly111]

War Criminal News has tracked down one of the boo-ers, but still had to put their spin on the story.

As the intrepid reporter cornered the boo-er, she demanded he make an apology, but not to the Indigenous leader or Indigenous people whom the booing was aimed at. No, she wanted him to apologise to "the diggers and their families":

https://www.news.com.au/national/eli-toby-man-accused-of-booing-the-welcome-to-country-at-the-anzac-day-dawn-service/news-story/7938da203be2f67f73625f4396ce60ee

 

[Frank Bunn]

The booing is completely unacceptable.

I however don't agree with the Welcome to Country at ANZAC day services either.

Veterans have been pretty vocal over the years as finding it offensive in these services, not all (before people jump down my throat), but there's been enough discussion on it that it's the one day that should fall in the "time and a place for it" common sense category. Whether those veterans that find it offensive really understand it's meaning, is another debate and largely irrelevant. It's their one day of the year for memorial and reflection. Most other issues should rightfully take a backseat to it.

It's something that has been asking for trouble for a long time given plenty of public commentary on it has taken place even outside of the ANZAC day period.

It's not a day that should ever be politicised.

Maybe the first nations community could devise a different style WTC specifically for Anzac Day, a thank you, rather than "a welcome". As from what I understand of the issue, that is veterans main issue.

I don't agree with the booing but how can veterans who don't agree with WTC on ANZAC day protest about it? Choosing to not attend the dawn service is ineffectual. There's no leverage to be gained by abstaining on what has become a political issue.

 

[Cyber_punk]

So a neo-nazi that lives with his parents is shaping the LNP/ON/media narrative. Same gronks as last year.

That's a rough 24.

 

[Gough]

War Criminal News has tracked down one of the boo-ers, but still had to put their spin on the story.

As the intrepid reporter cornered the boo-er, she demanded he make an apology, but not to the Indigenous leader or Indigenous people whom the booing was aimed at. No, she wanted him to apologise to "the diggers and their families":

https://www.news.com.au/national/eli-toby-man-accused-of-booing-the-welcome-to-country-at-the-anzac-day-dawn-service/news-story/7938da203be2f67f73625f4396ce60ee

Seven really are having a bob each way here. I also think the condemnation all round has shocked those who thought there might be more support for what these guys did and there bit of damage control going on.

 

[Gough]

And of course.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I don't agree with the booing but how can veterans who don't agree with WTC on ANZAC day protest about it? Choosing to not attend the dawn service is ineffectual. There's no leverage to be gained by abstaining on what has become a political issue.

Veterans can write a letter to the editor, or RSL secretary.

The neo nazis that we know were behind the booing, were not veterans.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The culprit is an incel who lives in his parents' basement, no surprises there. And once again, the people who wrap themselves in the cloak of white supremacy are those with little to be proud of beyond their race. If they went and built a life and a career and a family of their own, they might start to realise most non-white people just want the same thing like they do.

 

[sherb]

The culprit is an incel who lives in his parents' basement, no surprises there. And once again, the people who wrap themselves in the cloak of white supremacy are those with little to be proud of beyond their race. If they went and built a life and a career and a family of their own, they might start to realise most non-white people just want the same thing like they do.

That's the thing isn't it? The vast majority of us are pretty similar in what we want out of life - regardless of race, religion, nationality, etc.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It isn't just that one loser who lives in his parents' basement who was responsible, it was a coordinated effort by neo-Nazis and white supremacists across the country. Although notably, at 7:22 in the video, there's an "Eli" who pops up, same name as the incel.

 

[Madas]

I attended the dawn service in Fremantle for the first time and do so most years in various towns in the state
I count myself as pretty left wing but am Gen X old enough to have some forms of racism bred into me ( and I am from an immigrant family but born in Australia)

My feeling at the service ( which had very strong undertones of the welcome to country with a didgeridoo player and various other actors ) was that it felt somewhat misplaced and unnecessary.

It’s a fairly short service and I personally think that time could be better spent acknowledging the deceased and telling their stories

I love the WTC in the correct occasions but I don’t feel this is one of them and don’t want to see it’s significance diluted

I would never boo it though and find that behaviour abhorrent however if that’s what people think they need to do to have an issue recognised I understand it , but Anzac Day is a solemn occasion that should not be politicised and should be respected.

 

[schneebly111]

but Anzac Day is a solemn occasion that should not be politicised and should be respected.

A WTC is not political. Just because one side of politics cries like babies at mere mention of a WTC doesn’t make it ‘political’

 

[Sphynx]

He's trying to save his own arse and it's hard to blame him, if I was facing the sort of jail time he is I'd be doing the same thing too. But it's hard to remember too many accused mass murderers being offered the platform he is to protest his innocence.

Did he protest his innocence in that interview?

I’m sure you can quote him.

Seemed to be doing the exact opposite, made a focused statement on the day itself, seemingly to remind people to focus on the day and its meaning rather than the ongoing case.

Thats how I interpreted his intent to do it, anyway.

No public statement is going to prevent what’s coming to him if he’s found guilty.


My only issue with the case is the amount of resources we have spent bringing it to court.

Is there any precedent in history, ever? Afghanistan (despite Taliban control) still have a functioning police force and legal system.

I’d honestly like a senate inquiry into whether the AFP have spent the same amount of budget resources on the 1 man responsible for the crime waves and for fire bombings around Sydney and Melbourne at the moment, if we are hell bent on bringing single individuals to account, no matter the cost. I’d love to know what we’ve spent comparatively on him.

I’d also like to know who up the chain approved the AFP’s allocation of that budget amount and to determine if there was major political scullduggery /involvement in that decision given Stokes history of involvement with BRS.

The amounts you are talking are 500-1000 sworn officers working this case. Which would be half of Vic Pols entire investigative services pool of resources as a comparison. What other operations or squads have the AFP cut and ditched for this case?

 

[Sphynx]

A WTC is not political. Just because one side of politics cries like babies at mere mention of a WTC doesn’t make it ‘political’

Of course it is, I’ve read the same logic the last few pages that when any politician attends anything, it’s automatically political.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Good point. I missed:

- BRS and his media showboating for simply wearing check notes his commendations and service medals he was actually awarded.while awaiting trial for committing alleged war crimes, which could bring into question whether any or all of those commendations are valid

Edited for accuracy.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Australias most decorated soldier makes a statement on TV regarding the meaning of the day with no other political undertones and it’s for “reasons unknown”?

I’m sure you have proof he’s never made an interview or any other statements on previous days to show his opinion on the spirit of the day to be highly unusual?

Further, please send me the link of Stokes backing BRS defence? As far as I’m aware, hes applied for public funding of his defense.

I was told the AFP has spent $200m on the BRS case and counting. We haven’t hit the courts yet. That was 20% of their annual operating budget 12 months ago. Seems like an entirely appropriate use of public funds on 1 case.

Might be worth grabbing a few copies of "The West Australian"...

 

[Sphynx]

Edited for accuracy.

Is that edit accurate?

Were any of the alleged incidents during the same action of his citations? That would seem odd given that the VC and GM both require ADF, ministerial and then governor general approval and are vetted under full panels.

Most of his medals are campaign service medals. Or are you of the belief he wasn’t on those tours?

This isn’t the Brownlow.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Is that edit accurate?

Were any of the alleged incidents during the same action of his citations? That would seem odd given that the VC and GM both require ADF, ministerial and then governor general approval and are vetted under full panels.

Most of his medals are campaign service medals.

This isn’t the Brownlow.

Yes.

The Regulations covering the Victoria Cross don't specify the conditions under which a medal is cancelled. It gives the GG the power to cancel it, without there being a link to the conditions under which it was awarded.

Victoria Cross Regulations - Federal Register of Legislation

www.legislation.gov.au

 

[Sphynx]

Yes.

The Regulations covering the Victoria Cross don't specify the conditions under which a medal is cancelled. It gives the GG the power to cancel it, without there being a link to the conditions under which it was awarded.

Victoria Cross Regulations - Federal Register of Legislation

www.legislation.gov.au

Yes, lovely mayo you have put on that.

It’s simply the legal function to enable the cancellation of an awarded medal under the same legislation existing to be able to award it.

I repeat, why would his VC be cancelled?

Did the vetted and approved act of bravery not occur because of another incident at another time?

These are not a merit awards for period of service.

Being a brave soldier in the face of the enemy and a war criminal are not mutually exclusive things if they happened seperately .

I’m sure his commendation for distinguished service will be stripped, if found guilty.

In saying that, I wouldn’t be surprised if BRS just returned it if found guilty.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Yes, lovely mayo you have put on that.

It’s simply the legal function to enable the cancellation of an awarded medal under the same legislation existing to be able to award it.

I repeat, why would his VC be cancelled?

Did the vetted and approved act of bravery not occur because of another incident?

Being a brave soldier in the face of the enemy and a war criminal are not mutually exclusive things if they happened seperately .

I’m sure his commendation for distinguished service will be stripped, if found guilty.

How exactly is quoting the function that's available applying mayo?

If he is found guilty of the charges that have been laid against him, there will be huge pressure on the government of the day to seek to have his awards revoked. Yes, it would be unprecedented for the VC, but so to would be such a medalled soldier being convicted of such serious crimes.

Some people may still want to reconcile in their own mind that someone can simultaneously be a hero and a war criminal, my suspicion is a great number will not.

 

[Millky95]

I love the WTC in the correct occasions but I don’t feel this is one of them and don’t want to see it’s significance diluted

I would never boo it though and find that behaviour abhorrent however if that’s what people think they need to do to have an issue recognised I understand it , but Anzac Day is a solemn occasion that should not be politicised and should be respected.

I mean, isn't the fact that a Welcome to Country is politicised the bigger problem here?

In Aboriginal culture acknowledging the land in which we gather is an important tradition. Acknowledging that land in a ceremony about paying respects to those who died to defend that land and our rights to gather is appropriate, in my opinion.

I honestly think that if it was called "Welcome/Acknowledgement of the Land" instead of "Country" people would have less issues with it.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I mean, isn't the fact that a Welcome to Country is politicised the bigger problem here?

In Aboriginal culture acknowledging the land in which we gather is an important tradition. Acknowledging that land in a ceremony about paying respects to those who died to defend that land and our rights to gather is appropriate, in my opinion.

I honestly think that if it was called "Welcome/Acknowledgement of the Land" instead of "Country" people would have less issues with it.

Hell... Even the Brownlow count has an introduction "This is properly sanctioned meeting of the AFL Commission etc. etc."

Makes you wonder about why people really have a problem with it.

 

[Sphynx]

How exactly is quoting the function that's available applying mayo?

If he is found guilty of the charges that have been laid against him, there will be huge pressure on the government of the day to seek to have his awards revoked. Yes, it would be unprecedented for the VC, but so to would be such a medalled soldier being convicted of such serious crimes.

Some people may still want to reconcile in their own mind that someone can simultaneously be a hero and a war criminal, my suspicion is a great number will not.

A VC hasn’t been stripped in Aus, UK, NZ or Canada since the Boer War vets.

Because in 1908 King George decreed that even VC winners who may be committed to die under sentence of execution should be entitled to wear their VC during their execution.

It’s a long time ago, but the ultimate decision here will lie with King Charles I would say, given the status of the medal and the fact the monarch is actually the final approval in its award in the first place.


Yes the legal function exists, if you think public opinion is the be all and end all on what is actually a UK medal of gallantry awarded under permission in Australian legislation. I don’t think it’s that simple personally.

The political consideration extends outside of Australia.

 

[Millky95]

Hell... Even the Brownlow count has an introduction "This is properly sanctioned meeting of the AFL Commission etc. etc."

Makes you wonder about why people really have a problem with it.

3 main issues people have it with in my guess would be:

1. The name. "Why am I being welcomed to my own country when I live here?" is a common line I hear about it. When educated about country = land and that is welcoming you to this place we are gathering that tends to drop off

2. It feels like more unnecessary formalities. We have the WTC, thank you of sponsors, the anthem, introduction of VIPs etc etc and so depending on the event or occasion it feels more like fluff.

3. And the big one: a lot of people in Australia (and from what I have seen browsing other countries websites) don't like their first nations people. The dislike is generational.

 

[Gough]

All this talk of the VC is just muddying the waters, his act of gallantry has nothing to do with what he's been accused of.