Defender wanted

[lickmerocks]

Hi all,

Let me know if you think this can be worked.

Hawks need a tall defender and you have Rivers, Frawley, Warnock, Martin, Garland on your list.

Looking at your list you need some forwards to come through with Watts for the next 10 years. We have Dowler Thorp and Boyle on our list that cant get a game. Thorp and Boyle both injured atm dont have any real currency.

Dowler is really progressing nicely and although Hawthorn has tried to play him in defence he is a natural forward and is going to struggle for game time with Rough, Williams, Frank etc etc.

Would you be prepared to do a trade and if so which one of the defenders above would you look at moving.

I think Dowler would be a great asset for a club who is prepared to play him where his natural talent can shine.

Your thoughts please

 

[cannons]

Warnock for Thorp/Dowler.

Warnock may not be the most exciting or talented player, but he is solid and dependable. He also has experience at the highest level.

In some sense, the opposite is true of Thorp, and Dowler may be somewhere in between.

I think if we were to give up any of the others you mentioned, you would need to add something all have higher value than the two you mentioned. (I am neglecting to mention Boyle because he's a little bit older and may not fit into our rebuilding strategy.

 

[sledbomber]

Out of the defenders on our list Frawley and Garland are untradable. I think Warnock could be the one that we would consider trading. There is plenty of merit in trading Dowler for Warnock for both teams. We could definatley do with another key position forward to go with Watts and possibly Butcher. You guys obviously need to bolster your defence a bit with Croad's injury troubles.

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

I see the merit in trading Warnock while he has currency, yet i think he is needed more atm by us, as key backman are hard to come by we shold hold incase of further injuries because otherwise our cupboard may become a little bare. I.e. Late 2002 ....

I think Matt Maguire is the one teams should go for.

 

[Den11]

I think this could be worth looking at, as would need a lot of injury's as our key backs at the moment are Warnock, Rivers, Frawley, Garland, Martin and some medium sized defenders playing well in the 2's.

If we follow the Hawks model we should be trading excess talent to strenghten other areas. I would believe Frawley Garland and Martin would be untouchable, and Rivers close to it unless an exceptional offer is given.

If the club is looking at using picks 1&2 on mids would we look at adding to the trade one of our middle ranged mids? so a defender and mid (Buckley, Jones etc) might net us something decent in return. Especially if Hawks finish lower end of the ladder could be good draft pick involved

Hell i'd even throw in Wheatley Hehe

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

I think this could be worth looking at, as would need a lot of injury's as our key backs at the moment are Warnock, Rivers, Frawley, Garland, Martin and some medium sized defenders playing well in the 2's.

Thats the thing though our key backs atm consist of:
Warnock
Rivers
Frawley
Garland (injured)
Martin (played all over the ground)

And the mid sizers are:
Wheatley (out of form/likley to be delisted/traded/retrire)
MacNamara (injured)

Smalls:
Whelan (last legs?)
Cheney(not yet up to it)

Listening to Bailey speak about Garland he is keen to see more of him up forward. While seeing Martin all over the ground that only leaves Warnock,Rivers & Frawley as key and mid backs which are useful. I suspect Wheatley may be chopped and MacNamara may be close if he shows nothing for the rest of the year (though he has good chances of being kept). So to trade away would leave us in a vunrable position incase of injury. Unless of coarse we draft a key back or two ourselves.

 

[Den11]

Yeah good point, though just because he is being put up forward doesn't mean if we are heavily injury struck Garland can't go bach for a few games, like Nieta when first became a forward.

Cheney is close, give the kid more time and should you have also put Bennell, Grimes (Hopefully a mid from here on though) Strauss, petterd(can play taller) into these smaller backs? MacNamarra was touted as close to senior selection only a couple of weeks ago.

We aren't going to give players away like Geelong, though if the trade is there and it is a win win for us i think it is more then worthwhile looking at. Rookie or draft some more backs as coverage if you're worried. If you look at the teams winning premierships they have all made these tough choices

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

Yeah good point, though just because he is being put up forward doesn't mean if we are heavily injury struck Garland can't go bach for a few games, like Nieta when first became a forward.

Cheney is close, give the kid more time and should you have also put Bennell, Grimes (Hopefully a mid from here on though) Strauss, petterd(can play taller) into these smaller backs? MacNamarra was touted as close to senior selection only a couple of weeks ago.

No doubt with Garland i am one his biggest fans (actually in possesion of one of his training guernseys) lucky for me i am almost identicle ht and build....but that aside.. I prefer him as a back and if no match ups he could be swung around. I didnt include half back/midfielders/ultilities such as Petterd , Bennell ,Strauss, Davey,Grimes etc.. merely as they wont take the most dangerous player yet.

I think we should keep our backs together as they have formed a strong unit together and actually stand up really well (by the amount the ball comes in to scoring ratio, cant remember but we might of been 3rd or there abouts). But saying that if a offer to good to refuse comes along trades should be made.

 

[The Professor]

Hi all,
Hawks need a tall defender and you have Rivers, Frawley, Warnock, Martin, Garland on your list.

Looking at your list you need some forwards to come through with Watts for the next 10 years. We have Dowler Thorp and Boyle on our list that cant get a game. Thorp and Boyle both injured atm dont have any real currency.

No to Boyle.

Thorpe and Dowler apparently have massive injury worries but if they get ticked off, i would strongly consider it.

My ratings
1. Garland
2. Frawley
3. Warnock
4. Martin
5. Rivers

Definitely trade Rivers. I'll keep the 4.

 

[davey_magik]

For me Frawley and Garland are untouchable, however I would definitely consider trading Rivers, Martin or Warnock(I doubt anyone would come in for Stef though).

 

[lickmerocks]

Hey guys thanks for the sensible respones.

Actually kinda cool to have a proper discussion about players with supporters form another side.

Normally it would be something like
Rivers for first round pick and Buddy Franklin sort of stuff.

You have heaps of tall defenders. You have a rapidlly improving midfield. If you can get some key forwrads together to play with Watts you will improve very quickly.

Hawks need key defender to work with.
Dees need key forward to work with.

If both clubs dont overate there won cattle at seasons end then we should both be able to get something that helps us out.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Hey guys thanks for the sensible respones.

Actually kinda cool to have a proper discussion about players with supporters form another side.

Well it's a quality board you're on LMR, if I do say so myself. You ought to stick around, we have many good threads such as this one.

And yeah, of the 5 key backmen we have, Frawley, Garland and Martin would be the most crucial of these, but I wouldn't want to trade Rivers either if it could be helped, unless there is a clear benefit to us.

Warnock perhaps is another story, although again, he's been a decent player too, so I certainly wouldn't want to risk that on a trade that ended up being merely speculative.

 

[w00dy]

Hey guys thanks for the sensible respones.

Actually kinda cool to have a proper discussion about players with supporters form another side.

Normally it would be something like
Rivers for first round pick and Buddy Franklin sort of stuff.

You have heaps of tall defenders. You have a rapidlly improving midfield. If you can get some key forwrads together to play with Watts you will improve very quickly.

Hawks need key defender to work with.
Dees need key forward to work with.

If both clubs dont overate there won cattle at seasons end then we should both be able to get something that helps us out.

Exactly right... I think Warnock would be the one... You know exactly what you're going to get, and unlike many realise he's 25. By the time we're ready to challenge, He'll be 28-29 and right at the end of his career I would say... However he'll be in his prime when the Hawks are challenging, so I think this could be win-win. Thorp or Dowler would do the job you'd imagine...

For those who talk about Garland going forward, I believe that was more about necessity than preference... Bailey discussed using Garland as a forward option, however I think he'd much prefer to keep him in the backline, if we have a strong enough forward line.

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

I thikn the hard thing atm is trying to assess the worth of the current backs as we are 16th. As i mentioned before we actually fair quite well for inside 50's conceded to goals ratio. I believe this shows strength, and often reflects poorly of the midfield pressure on opposition. While the general consensus says Frawley and Garland are our most promising i dont see any benefit braking up this group as it can be our building block. The feeling when we were doing ok mid 2000's was while our mids and fwrds were ok , the backline was not good enough. So saying Warnockcould be traded as he concedes the goals or whatever is more a reflection of the mid's. He gets alot of spoils and 1%'s and any player we put on the key backs would perform roughly the same. I dont thin if we got Matty Scarlett he would do much better. So i say hang on to all.

 

[2 Dogs]

I am totally open to this. Our obvious weakness is our forward line, and with the potential for 2 stars to join the midfield group, and apparent question marks over Butcher, I'd be al for getting one of Thorp or Dowler at the expense of Warnock. Granted it's a settled unit down back, but the additional class in the guts will slow the amount of ball going down there.

Looking at our Last 4 games, we've kicked:

6.10 vs St Kilda
8.12 vs Collingwood
13.5 vs Essendon (historically games are high scoring)
8.8 vs Brisbane

Plus add the 4.10 we kicked against Adelaide we need to think of other options for improving our forward line. If the consensus that Butcher won't be as highly rated as first thought, then trading for others could be worth considering.

The good thing about the Hawthorn guys is that they have been developing for a couple of years and are now ready to step into league football. I've always thought that good sides are built around exceptional midfields, and we have the chance to have one of those.

 

[saj_21]

No to Boyle.

Thorpe and Dowler apparently have massive injury worries but if they get ticked off, i would strongly consider it.

My ratings
1. Garland
2. Frawley
3. Warnock
4. Martin
5. Rivers

Definitely trade Rivers. I'll keep the 4.

Interested to know why you rate rivers as the most tradeable?

Fonr mine Warnock is the least talented, the least upside (improvement) and is the oldest player amongst that group so i would trade hime if it is worthwhile.

 

[sledbomber]

I thikn the hard thing atm is trying to assess the worth of the current backs as we are 16th. As i mentioned before we actually fair quite well for inside 50's conceded to goals ratio. I believe this shows strength, and often reflects poorly of the midfield pressure on opposition. While the general consensus says Frawley and Garland are our most promising i dont see any benefit braking up this group as it can be our building block. The feeling when we were doing ok mid 2000's was while our mids and fwrds were ok , the backline was not good enough. So saying Warnockcould be traded as he concedes the goals or whatever is more a reflection of the mid's. He gets alot of spoils and 1%'s and any player we put on the key backs would perform roughly the same. I dont thin if we got Matty Scarlett he would do much better. So i say hang on to all.

I don't think anyone is being critical of Warnock, I personally rate him very highly. I think it is just out of the key defenders that we have at the moment is has the least amount of upside. Obviously we aren't talking about delisting him it is just if a trade were to come along that made sense like the proposed Dowler for Warnock one, then it should be something that Melbourne at least have a look at.

 

[Den11]

I am liking where this thread is going. If we can get something worthwhile for warnock we can Grab say Trengrove and Scully with one and two. Say Hawks finish 10th we get could throw in another player and try and get there pick 10 as it seems there are now 2 or three KPF ranked the same and we just take the best one available.

I dont think we should hold onto the backs just in case, use them when they have currency, all experts seem to predict Martin will surpass warnock by next year at full back and all we will have done is driven Warnocks price down by playing him in the 2's.

Otherwise apart from Hawks who else has this sort of depth in their forwards. Adelaide seems to have a few young ones coming through together. Are there any sitting behind Bradshaw and Brown? There is Hughes at tiges but we have debated that one. Syd and WC look depleated so we might not have much choice, and end up at the draft anyway.

Garland trained in the forward line for the whole '07/'08 preseason if i remember, with the idea to play him alongside neita to teach him the game. We then had injurys and he had his best year as a back. Bailey might be still looking at him as a forward, leaving the other four back

 

[cougar000]

Hi all,

Let me know if you think this can be worked.

Hawks need a tall defender and you have Rivers, Frawley, Warnock, Martin, Garland on your list.

Looking at your list you need some forwards to come through with Watts for the next 10 years. We have Dowler Thorp and Boyle on our list that cant get a game. Thorp and Boyle both injured atm dont have any real currency.

Dowler is really progressing nicely and although Hawthorn has tried to play him in defence he is a natural forward and is going to struggle for game time with Rough, Williams, Frank etc etc.

Would you be prepared to do a trade and if so which one of the defenders above would you look at moving.

I think Dowler would be a great asset for a club who is prepared to play him where his natural talent can shine.

Your thoughts please

Zac Dawson playing pretty good football at the moment

 

[The Dr]

I think it would be a schrewd decision by the Dees if we did get a great offer for, say Warnock (who I really rate, but as the oldest and least flexible of our back six, would be the one I'd suggest as a possible trade).

If we got a highly promising, ready to play KPF in return, that means we can draft the best two kids with 1 and 2, rather than taking a chance on a risky KP prospect.

 

[The Professor]

Interested to know why you rate rivers as the most tradeable?

Fonr mine Warnock is the least talented, the least upside (improvement) and is the oldest player amongst that group so i would trade hime if it is worthwhile.

Warnock has been a rock and the most consistent backman out of the 5.

He is the same age as Rivers and 18 odd months older then Martin.

Warnock is quicker then Rivers. Stronger. Warnock Plays the number one forward. Rivers plays 2nd or third or is a floater. Both don't really get involved coming out of defense but they are defenders first. Rivers is a danger to himself with his courage.

Rivers is smarter with positioning and reads the game really well but Warnock's ability to spoil, protect, shut down is what I'm looking for in a fullback.

Rivers is a quality player but if a trade comes up, he'll be the one, not Warnock.

 

[lickmerocks]

Its an absolute win win for both clubs.

Hawthorn have excess forwards and the Dees have multiple defenders.

Your midfield has huge potential and your defence is strong.

If you add a forward to develop with Watts and Wonna crumbing at there feet you will be a very dangerous set up.

You guys send this through to Bails and I will contact Clarko and we can get some contracts drawn up.

Warnock for Dowler sounds fair and reasonable to me.

 

[Deestroy]

Dowler has shown nothing as far as I'm concerned. Not sure I would take him for free in the PSD if he wanted to come, definitely wouldn't trade for him.

Boyle is of no use to us.

Thorp I would look at.

 

[Demon 86]

Its an absolute win win for both clubs.

Hawthorn have excess forwards and the Dees have multiple defenders.

Your midfield has huge potential and your defence is strong.

If you add a forward to develop with Watts and Wonna crumbing at there feet you will be a very dangerous set up.

You guys send this through to Bails and I will contact Clarko and we can get some contracts drawn up.

Warnock for Dowler sounds fair and reasonable to me.

If Hawthorn provide a total head transplant we'll talk.

But unless that happens no deal- my eyes hurt looking at this and seeing him every week would no doubt send turn me blind.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Warnock for Dowler perhaps.

I'm not convinced that it would be an inspired trade though, because I rate Warnock... Dowler's looked ok, but i haven't seen him play as a key forward for the Hawks yet, so i'd prefer to see how he goes in the forward line first...

Thorp is tall but doesnt play like a KP, and Boyle is just OK..