Health Depression

[Run n Spread]

Nah it's completely different for everyone and completely dependant on the person. Some people take more active anti-depressants, others take more sedating ones. But it's more of a gradual change, not a slow gradual change, but you're not going to wake up one morning thinking "I'm just so much better right now than I was yesterday."

Can you get a prescription for both? Say one to focus for work (active) another to kick back and forget the troubles with the booze (sedating)? Can't think of any other way to balance life atm. Might help focus and just tread water for the time been. Trouble is finding a GP who is loose with the prescription pad rather than going through another endless round of fuc*&* talks where they think you are full of sh*( at the end anyway.

 

[Run n Spread]

look into getting off them and changing your diet. I know of a psychartrist that screams from the top of the mountains that people with depression need to get gluten out of their diets. She doesnt prescribe anti ds anymore as she works on nutrition with her patients..

Now this I do agree with. Some is OK if you don't have an allergy but even then a large pizza or too much doesn't digest and can really fu&^ you over next 24 hours. Gluten (glue) the name gives it away in of itself.

 

[timtamWB]

Can you get a prescription for both? Say one to focus for work (active) another to kick back and forget the troubles with the booze (sedating)? Can't think of any other way to balance life atm. Might help focus and just tread water for the time been. Trouble is finding a GP who is loose with the prescription pad rather than going through another endless round of fuc*&* talks where they think you are full of sh*( at the end anyway.

God no. Mixing anti-depressants is a horrible idea. I'm on sedating ones, but I can still focus at work/uni and go nuts when I'm playing on stage, just because they're sedating doesn't mean that you can't focus or you're mellowed out all the time. Vice versa with active ones, doesn't mean you're up and about all the time. For people with high anxiety active anti-depressants usually don't work, so depending on that go for active or sedating ones.

 

[Run n Spread]

God no. Mixing anti-depressants is a horrible idea. I'm on sedating ones, but I can still focus at work/uni and go nuts when I'm playing on stage, just because they're sedating doesn't mean that you can't focus or you're mellowed out all the time. Vice versa with active ones, doesn't mean you're up and about all the time. For people with high anxiety active anti-depressants usually don't work, so depending on that go for active or sedating ones.

So what does? I mean its not as if you can sit at work and knock back a couple of cold ones to take the edge off is it? Also not the best place to have a full on take it all meltdown either. Can't really afford to take too much time/if any off and besides if I didn't rock up to work every time I didn't feel up to it I'd never go. Reckon to a point you need to keep the routine going.

 

[timtamWB]

So what does? I mean its not as if you can sit at work and knock back a couple of cold ones to take the edge off is it? Also not the best place to have a full on take it all meltdown either. Can't really afford to take too much time/if any off and besides if I didn't rock up to work every time I didn't feel up to it I'd never go. Reckon to a point you need to keep the routine going.

Then use sedating anti-depressants if you have high anxiety, it's what I do. They might be called active and sedating, but they just help you keep better control of yourself, they don't "sedate" or "activate" you like the name implies. I'm not too sure exactly what they do insofar as the manipulation of chemicals, but like I've said you just have to find the ones that work for you.

 

[Run n Spread]

Then use sedating anti-depressants if you have high anxiety, it's what I do. They might be called active and sedating, but they just help you keep better control of yourself, they don't "sedate" or "activate" you like the name implies. I'm not too sure exactly what they do insofar as the manipulation of chemicals, but like I've said you just have to find the ones that work for you.

Where to get them thou? So what you go to a GP and just say I need X, Y and Z. Or what have a deep and meaningful where they don't believe you? (Has happened).

 

[timtamWB]

Where to get them thou? So what you go to a GP and just say I need X, Y and Z. Or what have a deep and meaningful where they don't believe you? (Has happened).

If you're over 18 you can go to your GP and you should be able to get a prescription, but they might not until you get the ok from a psychologist.

 

[Run n Spread]

If you're over 18 you can go to your GP and you should be able to get a prescription, but they might not until you get the ok from a psychologist.

A psychologist? And tell them what exactly? I wouldn't know where to begin to be honest. Christ I'd end up paying their house off if I had the funds. Besides I really don't want any more detail on my file. (Yes you're details are stored and anyone with dodgy enough connections can access it).

 

[timtamWB]

A psychologist? And tell them what exactly? I wouldn't know where to begin to be honest. Christ I'd end up paying their house off if I had the funds. Besides I really don't want any more detail on my file. (Yes you're details are stored and anyone with dodgy enough connections can access it).

If you have a history of depression or anxiety then you will probably be able to get them from your GP. I don't know that much, I'm just a 20 year old that's had a history of depression, but I have an idea of how the system works.

 

[Run n Spread]

If you have a history of depression or anxiety then you will probably be able to get them from your GP. I don't know that much, I'm just a 20 year old that's had a history of depression, but I have an idea of how the system works.

Fair enough thanks. I might just do it discreetly and explain briefly and what I am in need of. Don't really want to go through the system.

 

[Run n Spread]

This is bullsh*&. Whenever I have something to do/something important on/something to look forward to I can guarentee something will fu*( up internally. Either a bad night's sleep, something will wake me up, extreme tiredness, fatigue, the need to sleep, inability to concentrate or something completely unexpected and completely external to me and out of my control etc. Yet if I am stuck doing something/have nothing on I will suddenly be full of energy.

This just happens too often to be an accident/mistake of fate. I've simply lost the ability to control my body clock, alertness,mental capacity to function in any meaningful way. I really think lately especially a gasket or some screw (for want of better terms) have just come loose in my brain and I'm totally going off the deep end.

Maybe I'm better off chilling alone and venturing out when I feel up to something. No use planning anything in advance as I can't structure myself around being able to function.

 

[Over The Post]

R&S - the system is there to help. There are specialists there to help.

GPs can only know a small subset of what there is to know in the fields of psychology, psychiatry and psychopharmacy. Something's wrong, they know that, and they do the best they can, which is usually to tick the boxes for various symptoms on a pharmaceutical website and have the recommended prescription pop up.

The truly ****ed up amongst us need to go further than that. You can't ignore decades of specialisation by thousands of practitioners and (for example) grasp at a cure-all promoted by one psychiatrist and mentioned by one scatter-brained knowitall. That is unlikely (not impossible) to achieve anything on the psych front although it may let you feel/be physically healthier. You need to get into the system.

Let me share my experience with you. We are all on an individual journey and nobody can understand exactly where you are at, but if you can pick out some info or empathy from the below it will have been worth my typing it.

I've been bipolar for nearly 20 years - the first 5 years undiagnosed and untreated.

I went through some very dark times indeed. In some ways I put up with the bad times because the highs were just so ****ing brilliantly energetic and creative. I'd write for 24-36 hours straight and it would be fantastic stuff that magazines paid thousands for. I had to get it out because I didn't know when the high would stop and I'd crash over a period of a couple of hours, and be numb and non-functional for days or weeks. I hid it amazingly well - I had three personas, the serious professional at work, the larger-than-life well-known man about town after hours, and the utterly miserable screwed up hateful blackened zombie inside. The first two were acts. Fronts. I remember an actor being praised for giving fantastic interviews. He said he hated them, but he was an actor and he simply thought "I am playing the part of someone enjoying being interviewed." That became my mantra. Acting was how I survived and how I escaped from people thinking there was something wrong with me, even though I'd be sitting in the dark at four in the morning looking at the little red standby light on the TV, afraid to go to sleep because if I went to sleep it meant I would wake up, and if I woke up I would have to go to work and start pretending again.

Part of this was anhedonia - total inability to enjoy or take happiness in anything. Having a great time? Yeah. Won the lottery? OK I suppose.

When I eventually sought help it was from my GP, who prescribed Prozac and suggested I see a psychologist. Not knowing any better, I picked one out of the phone book, went and saw her, and after an hour of me talking while she checked emails and shit, said my time was up, thats $100 thanks and would I like to make another appointment? **** that.

I nearly stopped taking the Prozac because it took a long time (nearly 2 months) to have any effect, and basically it just increased my tolerance and numbness. In terms of swings and roundabouts it knocked the spikes off my peaks and troughs - I no longer was at the bottom of a black pit during my lows, but by **** I missed those highs. It tended to average stuff out, but my baseline average was still far below what you could consider normal.

A couple of years later with a different GP I got a referral to a specialist clinic. I had about six sessions with a highly qualified psychologist who doubled my Prozac dose and told me that I wasn't cured, but was well on the road, patted me on the back and sent me on my way. The numbness got out of hand, I basically kept functioning at slightly above the minimum needed to keep my job and family but simply could not give a ****, I was completely out of ****s to give - literally, in terms of my sex life. I wasn't having highs and lows, I was having the odd good day and the odd bad day with lots of nothing in between.

One day I was numb enough to forget that I'd already had my pills and took them again. I sat at work for six hours staring at a wall with people trying to talk to me and my not even noticing them standing next to me. Someone helped me up from my chair and pushed me to the door, telling me to go home as I was obviously unwell. (Didn't call a taxi though!) On the way out through the warehouse the boys were breaking up pallets with crowbars, hammers etc. I just walked over and started ripping them apart in my hands. Got a slight feeling of satisfaction from that, their faces were priceless.

Another couple of years of this and I knew it couldn't go on, so I cut back to one a day and then nothing. Gradually the highs and lows returned, a bit more muted than before but at least I felt functional. Along with the highs and lows came the anger.

I was a ****ing Angry Man. Don't piss me off, I'd turn in an instant to this highly agitated wild eyed campaigner ready to blow. Anger, anger, anger. Never actually hit anyone but by god I thought about it a lot. The odd bit of road rage (I took it very seriously when some idiot gave me the finger one day) but usually a running commentary on all the lunatics driving around me along with lots of swearing. Was OK when on my own but a bit disconcerting with the family and when I was giving someone from work a lift. Along with the anger came the blood pressure. Insanely high.

Went back to my (new) GP who gave me all sort of bloods pressure tablets, and citalopram (Cipramil). Months later I had an absurdly low resting heart rate (about 38bpm - elite athlete territory) so one of the BP meds was changed.

Blood pressure was kind of under control (high, but not suicidally so) but the moods continued and anger only slightly diminished. The highs grew shorter and shorter and the down times longer and longer. I didn't really know what the hell was going on.

Another couple of years and work got a bit fed up with me. I was doing my job more than adequately, but people wouldn't phone me because they didn't know which person was going to answer - the uptight guy, the angry guy, or the **** you're an idiot don't bother me guy. I couldn't see that the meds were helping so I stopped taking them. All of them. It came to a head and I was basically told go and get proper help or pack my bags. Along with that came three names of reputable psychiatrists to go and see. While I was digesting that news, my blood pressure spiked (296/142) and I spent a wonderful weekend in hospital with IV drugs giving me massive nausea and the worst headache in history.

Regardless of how you think you're doing, if your workplace gives you names of psychiatrists you can safely assume you're pretty ****ed up.

So I went to my GP and got a referral to one. Six weeks later (these guys are busy) I was telling my story to The Professor who immediately categorised my not taking BP meds as self-harm (what else was going to happen, apart from having a stroke? I may not have consciously done it to hurt myself, but the conscious doesn't have a lot of say in these things), and rolled his eyes at the list of meds I was taking. One of the BP meds was fighting the Cipramil, essentially cancelling each other out and exaggerating the side effects. *** There was no way my GP would have known this. ***

So with immediate effect, off the Cipramil and change to a new BP med. Two weeks to get Cipramil out of my system and then started Cymbalta. The biggest change was his prescribing Lamical (Lamotrigine). What I'd been experiencing was the antidepressants knocking the tips of the highs and lows off, but not touching the underlying ups and downs. Lamotrigine is an anti-epileptic drug that has interesting side effects, one of which is to act as a powerful mood stabiliser. Without the big waves coming through, the Cymbalta would have a better chance of raising my baseline mood back towards average. And thats exactly what has happened. Unfortunately I don't have epilepsy, so have to pay full price for Lamotrigine, but shit its worth it for me.

So it took nearly 14 years to get my meds right, but now that they are, I'm in a much better place. BP is a little higher than it would be if I wasn't taking Cymbalta, but its still good compared to where it used to be.

The other thing The Professor did was refer me to a psychologist who he thought might be able to help deal with the root causes of my depressive illness. Given my previous experience I wasn't too fussed, especially when the first thing the psychologist told me was that *I* was the one being appraised and if he didn't think we had a meaningful connection after the first hour then he wouldn't accept me as a patient. At the time I thought that was pretty ****ed but went along with it. Now I understand that he's only got so much time to give and he'd much rather spend it with people he can genuinely help.

It took several weekly sessions to build up a bit of confidence and trust and for some of the walls to come down. I'm not going to detail what led up to me being susceptible to bipolar and what triggered it, but he has discovered a large number of things from my past that had negative effects at the time and I hadn't realised were still affecting me today. The weekly sessions became fortnightly and now its every month to six weeks. To be honest I'm going to be sorry when he cuts me loose... I won't be "cured" but I'll be far better equipped to deal with life.

My biggest moment of clarity came, not when I was with him, but when I was visiting some places from my past and reliving some decisions that I'd made that were unbelievably stupid. You can tell yourself until you're blue in the face that you made the best decision you could at the time with the information that you had - but inside you know that it was wrong wrong WRONG and only a dickhead would have ever done it. Then the realisation hit me.

Everyone makes bad decisions. Even monumental ones. If you make a monumentally ****witted decision, IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A ****WIT. It is the DECISION that was bad - not you. I had been beating myself up for almost 15 years over a decision I had made that affected my family, my finances and myself in a life-changing way. I'd thought about that decision literally almost every day for 15 years and utterly hated myself for doing it, and hated everything I was doing and everything I had around me because it was a constant reminder of what I had LOST as a consequence of my decision. And in that one moment, that one thought changed everything. The bad decision did NOT mean that I was bad. It meant the decision was bad. And that made me happy - genuinely happy - for the first time in many years.

You're very young, nip it in the bud now before the black dog gets too big and bitey. Your GP will have to fill out a Mental Health Plan along with a referral to a psychiatrist or mental health clinic, when this is in the system Medicare will pay for most of your treatment costs (I pay $31 out of a $165 consult) for ten sessions per calendar year. Plan stuff even though you don't know if you'll be functional. You won't know unless you're there, and you may find yourself having a good time. Good luck on your journey.




tl;dr Undiagnosed bipolar, 15 years of GP treatment ineffective, seen specialist psychiatrist and psychologist and now much more comfortable. Two and a half hours to write a bigfooty post - am I ****ing crazy???

 

[Dumpstar]

Where to get them thou? So what you go to a GP and just say I need X, Y and Z. Or what have a deep and meaningful where they don't believe you? (Has happened).

I just went to my GP and got a prescription. Tell them as much as possible about your condition and they might give you something.

 

[Dumpstar]

/snip

That's a very good post mate. Thanks for sharing your story.

Just out of curiosity, have you seen Stephen Fry's documentary on bipolar? (The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive)

 

[thethinkingcat]

look into getting off them and changing your diet. I know of a psychartrist that screams from the top of the mountains that people with depression need to get gluten out of their diets. She doesnt prescribe anti ds anymore as she works on nutrition with her patients..

One thing that you are passionate about is the diet change. Am not hanging it on you but when somebody has depression the diet is the last of their worries.
I'm sure smasha and Run n Spread will get the councelling and support they need.
As is getting themselves involved with something to take their mind off the frustrating illness called depression. Take a look at mitch clark who does photography. It gets his mind away from what he is suffering from.
Hope any of you who have depression seek the help that you need and don't become anxious about it. All because the anxiety makes depression harder for you to live.

 

[Run n Spread]

Over The Post Good post mate, thanks for sharing.

 

[Run n Spread]

Question: How would anyone on here go about getting time off work or is it even a good idea. Am kind of at a critical juncture work wise and not in a stable position and need to and am in the running to move sideways/possible upwards so now isn't the best time for an extended leave of absence. Having said that the days are getting harder and harder to get through and the last 2 weeks especially. I really am cooked but don't know how to recharge.

Also what possible excuse could I use to cut back? There is no fu&*& way I'm telling management or anyone that I'm gone and need a mental break but what other explanation would there be for a need to cut back? Whatever excuse they may just decide too hard on your bike. (And as a contractor they can do this). My previous manager there maybe I could of said personal sh&* and worked around it and he would have agreed but not now.

Just need a way to get through the days and just get the job done and not be drawn out into having to be too social or reliant on personality which the job really doesn't require.

 

[nicky]

One thing that you are passionate about is the diet change. Am not hanging it on you but when somebody has depression the diet is the last of their worries.
I'm sure smasha and Run n Spread will get the councelling and support they need.
As is getting themselves involved with something to take their mind off the frustrating illness called depression. Take a look at mitch clark who does photography. It gets his mind away from what he is suffering from.
Hope any of you who have depression seek the help that you need and don't become anxious about it. All because the anxiety makes depression harder for you to live.

Actually, i'm not advocating diet change for the fk of it... my suggestion on removing gluten from diet if suffering any form of mental illness including depression comes from LOTS of peer reviewed research and proactive psychiartrists and GPs who recommend the same. It's brilliant advice.

and frankly if i had depression and was eating shit loads of gluten and someone came along and suggested that i would feel better if i cut it out of my diet then i would most certainly give that a try. If there is any mental issue going on then diet should be one of the first things to address - it's a quick win that will have a positive impact on well being. The attitude that "diet is the least of their worries" is annoying rubbish.

In many instances sorting out your diet and rebalancing your hormones is going to have a greater impact on your ability to feel good than talking to a shrink would.

Seriously, why on earth would you think i would suggest such a thing if it didn't have any merrit?

Finally, playing down the role diet plays on your biochemistry is stupid.

On a lighter note, here is a fascinating article i just read about the views on Western psychology from the perspective of an African shaman...

It's really good.

http://earthweareone.com/what-a-shaman-sees-in-a-mental-hospital/

 

[timtamWB]

Actually, i'm not advocating diet change for the fk of it... my suggestion on removing gluten from diet if suffering any form of mental illness including depression comes from LOTS of peer reviewed research and proactive psychiartrists and GPs who recommend the same. It's brilliant advice.

and frankly if i had depression and was eating shit loads of gluten and someone came along and suggested that i would feel better if i cut it out of my diet then i would most certainly give that a try. If there is any mental issue going on then diet should be one of the first things to address - it's a quick win that will have a positive impact on well being. The attitude that "diet is the least of their worries" is annoying rubbish.

In many instances sorting out your diet and rebalancing your hormones is going to have a greater impact on your ability to feel good than talking to a shrink would.

Seriously, why on earth would you think i would suggest such a thing if it didn't have any merrit?

Finally, playing down the role diet plays on your biochemistry is stupid.

On a lighter note, here is a fascinating article i just read about the views on Western psychology from the perspective of an African shaman...

It's really good.

http://earthweareone.com/what-a-shaman-sees-in-a-mental-hospital/

While I agree with the majority of your post, cutting gluten out of my diet isn't so easy. Going on a diet isn't that easy. When I get depressed, I tend to eat, and it's hard when you're in that state to keep away from gluten. If I was living by myself or with a roommate I would just remove most things that contain gluten, but since I'm living with my parents and my brother it's difficult. Any advice on how to cut it out of your diet, apart from just willing yourself to do it? Because I just can't at the moment.

 

[nicky]

While I agree with the majority of your post, cutting gluten out of my diet isn't so easy. Going on a diet isn't that easy. When I get depressed, I tend to eat, and it's hard when you're in that state to keep away from gluten. If I was living by myself or with a roommate I would just remove most things that contain gluten, but since I'm living with my parents and my brother it's difficult. Any advice on how to cut it out of your diet, apart from just willing yourself to do it? Because I just can't at the moment.

If you were coeliac, meaning eating gluten would threaten your life, would your parents support you by giving you gluten free options?

This is the same thing. There's enough noise about the mental adverse effects gluten has on humans to warrant serious consideration to avoid.

Google coeliac diet, gluten free diet, paleo diet - there's an abundance of opportunities to pig out on gluten free food. I'm certainly not advising that you stop eating or cut back, go NUTS, pig out, just avoid gluten.

 

[timtamWB]

If you were coeliac, meaning eating gluten would threaten your life, would your parents support you by giving you gluten free options?

This is the same thing. There's enough noise about the mental adverse effects gluten has on humans to warrant serious consideration to avoid.

Google coeliac diet, gluten free diet, paleo diet - there's an abundance of opportunities to pig out on gluten free food. I'm certainly not advising that you stop eating or cut back, go NUTS, pig out, just avoid gluten.

Putting it that way, they would definitely support me, they've been amazing. And I've had ceoliac friends in the past, so I know about all the gluten free foods My main problem is that a lot of the foodsd I eat tend to be high in gluten and it's going to be hard to cut those out, that's the main thing I'm worried about. But I'm definitely going to give it a shot, what have I got to lose?

 

[nicky]

Look into GAPS diet - get the book or atleast read the website
http://gapsaustralia.com.au/

"Gut And Psychology Syndrome (GAP Syndrome or GAPS) establishes the connection between the state of the patient’s gut and the functioning of the brain. This connection has been known by medics for a very long time. The father of modern psychiatry French psychiatrist Phillipe Pinel (1745–1828), after working with mental patients for many years, concluded in 1807: “The primary seat of insanity generally is in the region of the stomach and intestines.” Long before him Hippocrates (460-370 BC), the father of modern medicine has said: “All diseases begin in the gut!” The more we learn with our modern scientific tools, the more we realise just how right they were!"

I'm currently reading recipes created by Marieke Rodenstein from Nutrition practise. They are in line with the GAPS diet and are incredible

 

[nicky]

Look into GAPS diet - get the book or atleast read the website
http://gapsaustralia.com.au/

I'm currently reading recipes created by Marieke Rodenstein from Nutrition practise. They are in line with the GAPS diet and are incredible

From that website - how gut bacteria effects mental health, one of the sections.............

"
Gluteomorphins & Casomorphins or opiates from gluten and casein.
Gluten is a protein present in grains, mainly wheat, rye, oats, barley. Casein is a milk protein, present in cow, goat, sheep, human and all other milk and milk products. In the bodies of children and adults with autism and schizophrenia these proteins do not get digested properly due to the fact that their digestive systems are full of abnormal microbial flora and hence unhealthy. As a result of misdigestion gluten and casein turn into substances with similar chemical structure of opiates, like morphine and heroin. There has been quite a substantial amount of research done in this area by Dohan, Reichelt, Shattock, Cade and others, where gluten and casein peptides, called gluteomorphins and casomorphins, were detected in the urine of schizophrenic patients and autistic children. Incidentally, these substances were also found in patients with depression and rheumatoid arthritis. These opiates from wheat and milk get through the blood-brain barrier and block certain areas of the brain, just like morphine or heroin would do, causing various neurological and psychiatric symptoms. Based on this research the gluten and casein free diet(GFCF diet) has been developed.

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

Ok, so I'm doing fine after a 6-month r'ship break-up a month ago, surprised myself that after the initial shock I was doing well, all things considered. That was until tonite, when I saw her all dressed up and looking so damn fine on a night out with her friend (I had just dropped a mate off downtown when I saw her; pretty sure they both saw me).... so now all the feels have come back in a rush, bit of a setback TBH. When I am with a woman, she has me, I am hers, I am loyal, and if she ticks all the boxes, I tend to fall hard, so when the break-up comes it sends me into a tailspin. I was doing so well

Now I'm at home, alone, I know I'm not going to sleep so I popped two Mersondyl to do the trick, I just want this night to end....

 

[Run n Spread]

I am kind of at a loss at the minute. Nearly absolutely lost it at the manager twice today but was able to compose myself and venture out before I had the proverbial melt down. Just don't have the stamina to deal with any more sh*&. Would rather be alone or with a select few people at the minute but that is not always possible. Feel like one more crisis and I will flip and something will just push me over the edge. Its like I've got 10s of different things all needing to be balanced.

One thing that has gone for certain is my patience. I just have no tolerance for been hassled and am sick of having to explain/defend myself. Really just shut down from it all. It is all too hard atm and I really just need to find a way to hang in and survive. Problem is you can't do that forever as there is no improvements in the future, if anything things will get progressively worse but I don't have the time or energy at the minute and actually feel very depressed literally.