Did we bring it on ourselves??

[Zombie]

Originally posted by skilts


Now you're developing some understanding.

Does this mean you think Papua New Guinea wasn't invaded, or that it wasn't part of Australia? Or does it just mean you don't think?

PNG was not part of Australia, we administered part of it. Saying it was part of Australia is like saying India was part of England.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


Now you're developing some understanding.

Does this mean you think Papua New Guinea wasn't invaded, or that it wasn't part of Australia? Or does it just mean you don't think?

No i dont think youre developing any understanding PNG was never officially part of Australia, it was Australian administerred under a UN trusteeship.

 

[fabulousphil]

Zombie ubeat me to it.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by Bridgette
Once again, direct all comments to the the thread on...

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50946

Shut up! You've made your point, stop telling everyone what to do!

 

[fabulousphil]

Dam u Zombie

 

[London Dave]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


No i dont think youre developing any understanding PNG was never officially part of Australia, it was Australian administerred under a UN trusteeship.

Phil, can you explain how PNG was under Australian administration/protection thru UN trusteeship in 1942 (when invaded by Japan), a good 3 years before the UN was even formed?

 

[Blues_Brat]

Originally posted by London Dave


Phil, can you explain how PNG was under Australian administration/protection thru UN trusteeship in 1942 (when invaded by Japan), a good 3 years before the UN was even formed?

Why let facts get in the way of a good bullshot?

 

[myee8]

Re: Re: Did we bring it on ourselves??

Originally posted by Macca19


Pardon my ignorance, but i didnt realise Bali was part of Australia! So how was that a terrorist attack against Australia, just because Australians were in the bar at the time?

It is common knowledge that a lot of Aussies go to Bali for holidays.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


.

What is your solution to islamic fundamentalist terrorism Skilts..........roll over.

.

My answer to Islamic fundamentalism is the same as the answer I have to Christian fundamentalism - education. This is what I'm trying to do in this thread.

Do you really think these terrorist attacks, if we must call them that, have come out of the blue. They are a response to 50 years of US interference in the world, especially in areas where they see their economic interests threatened. The US convinced themselves that, with a little help from Errol Flynn, they saved the world from 1941-1945. One may ask from what?

It's about Israel V Palestine. The history of this conflict shows thousands of years of main-chancers seeking to divvy up the spoils by imposing solutions devised in London, Washington or wherever, on people who can't understand why they are unable to be masters of their own destiny, while others are. Is it any wonder the Palestinians are ****ed off? They react in kind with violence and all of a sudden, they're the worst mongrels on earth. To me, the Palestinians killed in the occupied lands are just as dead as those in the Twin Towers, or in Bali.

There is a distinct imbalance in our reaction to these two sets of events. When was the last time we had a national day of mourning for dead Palestinian children? They're just as dead, you know. Then again they're different aren't they? They're playing for the other side, aren't they? They don't have our all-powerful media on their side.

Having said all of that, I hold no truck with murderers. Be they Palestinian, Muslim, Israeli or Calathumpian. My point is that simplistic, knee-jerk assessments of these horrendous occurences condemn us to another thousand years of the same. This is NOT just a wanton, mindless decision by these people to commit mass murder, for no apparent reason. If you care to look below the surface the reasons are manifest.

Usama Bin Ladin, or someone like him, wouldn't exist without the actions of the US and Britain over the past fifty years.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by London Dave


Phil, can you explain how PNG was under Australian administration/protection thru UN trusteeship in 1942 (when invaded by Japan), a good 3 years before the UN was even formed?

It was mandated to Australia in 1920 by the league of nations, a forerunner to the UN, its a moot point and way off the subject.

Australian rule was reconfirmed in 1947 by the UN trusteeship.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


My answer to Islamic fundamentalism is the same as the answer I have to Christian fundamentalism - education. This is what I'm trying to do in this thread.

Do you really think these terrorist attacks, if we must call them that, have come out of the blue. They are a response to 50 years of US interference in the world, especially in areas where they see their economic interests threatened. The US convinced themselves that, with a little help from Errol Flynn, they saved the world from 1941-1945. One may ask from what?

It's about Israel V Palestine. The history of this conflict shows thousands of years of main-chancers seeking to divvy up the spoils by imposing solutions devised in London, Washington or wherever, on people who can't understand why they are unable to be masters of their own destiny, while others are. Is it any wonder the Palestinians are ****ed off? They react in kind with violence and all of a sudden, they're the worst mongrels on earth. To me, the Palestinians killed in the occupied lands are just as dead as those in the Twin Towers, or in Bali.

There is a distinct imbalance in our reaction to these two sets of events. When was the last time we had a national day of mourning for dead Palestinian children? They're just as dead, you know. Then again they're different aren't they? They're playing for the other side, aren't they? They don't have our all-powerful media on their side.

Having said all of that, I hold no truck with murderers. Be they Palestinian, Muslim, Israeli or Calathumpian. My point is that simplistic, knee-jerk assessments of these horrendous occurences condemn us to another thousand years of the same. This is NOT just a wanton, mindless decision by these people to commit mass murder, for no apparent reason. If you care to look below the surface the reasons are manifest.

Usama Bin Ladin, or someone like him, wouldn't exist without the actions of the US and Britain over the past fifty years.

Imo the problem with people like you and your well meaning ideas is that they are just not realistic, sounds good in theory, everyone should have food clothing and shelter, Australia should take millions of refugees, everything should be shared equally, no one should lose.

Its just namby pamby crap, people are people and for all of your pretty ideas about education people dont change, the history of the world is cyclical,one of boom, bust, create, destroy that is the nature of humans and always will be.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Imo the problem with people like you and your well meaning ideas is that they are just not realistic, sounds good in theory, everyone should have food clothing and shelter, Australia should take millions of refugees, everything should be shared equally, no one should lose.

Its just namby pamby crap, people are people and for all of your pretty ideas about education people dont change, the history of the world is cyclical,one of boom, bust, create, destroy that is the nature of humans and always will be.

Just because you're an armpit doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Your world view could be seen as Realpolitic or how the world REALLY is.

On the other hand, it could be seen as an excuse for giving up and not thinking beyond the bleeding obvious. It is not something to be proud of, to be so shallow. Although, your thinking would make you a perfect fit into John Howard's constituency. Did I say thinking?

If you have such an abysmal opinion of humanity, why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favour?

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Imo the problem with people like you and your well meaning ideas is that they are just not realistic, sounds good in theory, everyone should have food clothing and shelter, Australia should take millions of refugees, everything should be shared equally, no one should lose.

Its just namby pamby crap, people are people and for all of your pretty ideas about education people dont change, the history of the world is cyclical,one of boom, bust, create, destroy that is the nature of humans and always will be.

Totally agree, human nature will never change, it is not possible to solve the worlds problems because they are due to fundamental flaws in humans.

Eg. the scenario of everyone should be equal: for this to happen people in Western countries will have to give up a hell of alot of the luxuries that we take for granted and quite frankly when push comes to shove less than .01% of people from Western countires would be prepared to do it.

It simply isn't feasible.

 

[Mead]

It seems to go without saying that when people prosper, they tend less towards fanaticism. With almost no exceptions, all the 'hotspots' around the world are poverty stricken hellholes. Granted this is probably a bit Chicken/Eggish, but it does seem logical that when people are busy worrying about their second mortgage and what university to send the kids to, they tend not to try and kill their next door neighbours. This is why Palestinians and Israelis have been going at it for 50 years, but Australians and New Zealanders restrict their animosity to the occasional rugby riot. So, to make the world better, we get rid of poverty. Fine, sensible idea in theory.
But just before I flog my rolex, and send a cheque to world vision, it might be worth asking just how we end poverty. Fact is, corrupt, crackpot regimes starve their people no matter what is done. IIRC, during one of the interminable Ethiopian wars over the last few decades, a massive aid concert was held in america, to raise money for Africa. With the funds raised, the UN proudly shipped in a massive amount of grain in trucks, as a gift to the ethiopian people to alleviate their suffering. The government promptly sold all of the grain, and appropriated the trucks for the military. For the past twenty years, the international community has funnelled literally billions of dollars into Africa, but the entire continent is still one gigantic rubbish heap? Why? because of the constant conflict, crackpot military regimes, nutjob rulers throughout the place, etc etc. Build a hospital, and someone comes along and burns it down. Send food, and it goes to the guys with the guns.
Political correctness aside, the *only* sure path to prosperity and wellbeing for a nation is liberal democracy. The UN Human Development Index affirms this.
And the only sure path to liberal democracy for any of the under privileged countries in the world is to send in western armies to kill the nutcases, implement free elections, and then enforce the results, for as long as it takes for infrastructure to develop- a bit gungho, you say? Exactly that happened in East Timor, and it *worked*, whereas the UN's refusal to use military force in Rwanda means that it is still a heap of crap.

As for the original question- did we bring this on ourselves? Idiocy. If, as some have suggested this is all because we've been so naughty and supported the US over the Israel/Palestine question, could someone please explain why a french tanker was just bombed?? The French are pretty much the most pro-arab/anti american nation in Europe, and are the main force in blocking the United States' proposed Iraq resolutions in the UN. So, if, as some people seem to suggest, Al Qaida are able to pick and choose their targets, why would they pick the most sympathetic westerners- the frogs.
IMO, it doesn't matter where you stand on the political spectrum. If you're a westerner, you're a target to fundamentalists. I'm not crazy about a lot of aspects of US foreign policy, but here, our interests coincide- if we wuss out, all we do is encourage these psychopaths to continue to attack us, because we've shown their methods work.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Affluence and education means less terrorism - tell that to the Saudis with degrees who drove a plane into the World Trade Centre!

 

[Contra Mundum]

I utterly disagree with our foreign policy when it comes to America. We are peanuts on the world stage so why can't we have an independent or at least a non-aligned foreign policy.

That said, it is simplistic in the extreme to "blame" our foreign policy for this appalling crime. Lets face it - if it is Islamic Fundamentalists to blame - why do they need an extra reason hate a place where western people get ****ed, dance and snog?

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


Just because you're an armpit doesn't mean everyone else has to be. Your world view could be seen as Realpolitic or how the world REALLY is.

On the other hand, it could be seen as an excuse for giving up and not thinking beyond the bleeding obvious. It is not something to be proud of, to be so shallow. Although, your thinking would make you a perfect fit into John Howard's constituency. Did I say thinking?

If you have such an abysmal opinion of humanity, why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favour?

I dont have an abysmal opinion of humanity, I unlike yourself have a realistic one.

Why dont you take your sooky left wing, 60s, namby pamby, half forward flank rhetoric to Rwanda or any other hotspot in the world to bestow your pearls of wisdom. Lets see how long your love and peace and goodwill to all men lasts.

OH and while your at it..........dont come back.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


I dont have an abysmal opinion of humanity, I unlike yourself have a realistic one.

Why dont you take your sooky left wing, 60s, namby pamby, half forward flank rhetoric to Rwanda or any other hotspot in the world to bestow your pearls of wisdom. Lets see how long your love and peace and goodwill to all men lasts.

OH and while your at it..........dont come back.

Where did I say anything about goodwill to all men? In your case, I was suggesting suicide as the most favourable outcome for everyone. Is that namby pamby enough for you, you hard man?

You must be an Australian to be this stupid, and be so proud of it.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by skilts


You must be an Australian to be this stupid, and be so proud of it.

what the **** is this supposed to mean?

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by nicko18


what the **** is this supposed to mean?

We elected this ars*licker. So much for democracy.
John, please don't help. Howard and his ilk are the reason democracy doesn't work. Similarly with the US. Poll-driven politics will be eventually found out.

The reason Brush supports Israel's cause is because he would lose the Jewish vote in New York, not because of the righteousness of the Israeli cause. THIS is Realpolitik

Howard has never had an original thought in his life. Because we are seen as people who support him, we are the ones who suffer.

Consider this, just once: Is it possible we are wrong?

 

[hourn]

Originally posted by Mead

As for the original question- did we bring this on ourselves? Idiocy.

My original questoin basically meant.

here are a bunch of people having a great time just enjoying life - how did they bring this attack upon themselves?? they didn't!!!

my simple statement is, if we didn't bring this attack on ourselves, then how can people think that the american's who died brought this attack upon themselves. Those who died in 11/9 were simply working as they do everytime of their life, they didn't bring anything upon themselves either.

But some people who were quick to say "America brought it on themselves" haven't said anything about how "Australia brought it on themselves" (which we didn't. bbut neither did America). In there, i think there is a lot of hyprocrisy with those two statements.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


Where did I say anything about goodwill to all men? In your case, I was suggesting suicide as the most favourable outcome for everyone. Is that namby pamby enough for you, you hard man?

You must be an Australian to be this stupid, and be so proud of it.

Usually your posts are unqualified drivel and the rantings of a sick idiotic fool but you have really excelled this time.

Im proud to be an Australian unlike yourself and if your not an Australian i hope they never let you become one.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Usually your posts are unqualified drivel and the rantings of a sick idiotic fool but you have really excelled this time.

Im proud to be an Australian unlike yourself and if your not an Australian i hope they never let you become one.

Loving this. So pleased you find me so odious. I will wear it as a badge of courage, which it becomes, in the face of the mindless, the first, the reactionary thought, as the best method of Australian politics.

It is beyond your wit or intelligence to realise that you and your ilk ARE the problem. Why don't you volunteer to come home in a body bag, if you feel so strongly about this? At least that way your relatives would have someone else to blame, rather than if you did the only moral thing and top yourself. What would be the loss?

BTW, my forebears arrived on this piece of stolen land in 1853, from Scotland. Your dimwitted Australia has never been mine.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


Loving this. So pleased you find me so odious. I will wear it as a badge of courage, which it becomes, in the face of the mindless, the first, the reactionary thought, as the best method of Australian politics.


BTW, my forebears arrived on this piece of stolen land in 1853, from Scotland. Your dimwitted Australia has never been mine.

Your right i can smell you from here.......... and it aint pleasant .. its the odour of a sad old man.

The other point id like to make is sure we stole the aboriginees land as we thought they were basically doing nothing with it...... as it would have looked to most people of the time. But surely if you feel that strongly about how your ancestors stole land you should make up for it and return your property and possesions to aboriginal control(thats of course if you have any ) to settle there sins and debts and unbridle your guilty conscience.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Your right i can smell you from here.......... and it aint pleasant .. its the odour of a sad old man.

The other point id like to make is sure we stole the aboriginees land as we thought they were basically doing nothing with it...... as it would have looked to most people of the time. But surely if you feel that strongly about how your ancestors stole land you should make up for it and return your property and possesions to aboriginal control(thats of course if you have any ) to settle there sins and debts and unbridle your guilty conscience.

Because you are a duckwit, you are unable to address the 'dimwitted' reference. Is it possible we have been totally wrong?

Question for slow learners.