Diet and nutrition

[Nickos66]

Bleergh.. this is getting old. Lets move on.

I noticed more and more cafes are doing BP coffees in Perth nowadays. Still not my thing. But then, I haven't exactly been LCHF the last few months.

 

[showdownhero]

Ok so I knew this health star rating system was garbage but holy cow

haha I posted a facetious instagram post with this picture featuring the hastags #purewhiteanddeadly #garbage and #inthebin



still got a like and a comment from the official milo instagram profile

obviously all that sugar is rotting their brains

 

[StiffArm]

I don't think he did, since it's a paid paper and he quoted from the free text...

Forgot that not everybody knows this...

For full text go here:
http://sci-hub.cc/

and paste in the url:
http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/content/25/5/174

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

who's talking to you ovo boy?

you get all the b12 you need from eggs

I just can't stand ur constant dribble on the vegan subject...

Anyway...

 

[StiffArm]

Correlation≠Causation
Sugar and grains are more dangerous to weight gain the animal products boyo

Terrible post.

 

[StiffArm]

That source has precisely nothing to do with what you have written in your post.

What I wrote in my post is copy/pasted from the source.

Do you need help getting those clown shoes out of your mouth?

 

[showdownhero]

What I wrote in my post is copy/pasted from the source.

Do you need help getting those clown shoes out of your mouth?

it's a pro vegan newspaper article, and what you copy pasted has precisely zero citations attached to it.

I'd tell you to read the article again but your glaring lack of b12 probably makes that difficult, perhaps you should go take a lay down

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

it's a pro vegan newspaper article, and what you copy pasted has precisely zero citations attached to it.

I'd tell you to read the article again but your glaring lack of b12 probably makes that difficult, perhaps you should go take a lay down

That's just a dick of a thing to say... But it's completely typical and usual for around here...

 

[Deliverance]

Why don't one you vegans start your own tread, this has become the you verse us tread, no real good info on here anymore!

Vegans shouldn't even be on Bigfooty. A forum dedicated to a sport that kills cows for entertainment.

 

[showdownhero]

but in both cases it is likely that the less you have the better for you.

rubbish

 

[showdownhero]

I don't eat a paleo diet

 

[SJ]

Just did the CSIRO "Healthy" eating survey. Scored 59/100. Told me to eat more grains and wheat products for fibre, which was no surprise given their agenda. Also to eat more fruit and "healthy fats" such as canola oil and margarine rather than butter and coconut oil.

No wonder there are so many issues like diabetes, obesity and alzheimers in Australia.

Pretty sure if you reduced the proportion of refined food (junk) and portion sizes in people's diets and improved their levels of activity it would reduce diabetes and obesity dramatically. It's got nothing to do with whole grains.

 

[Big Cox 88]

Pretty sure if you reduced the proportion of refined food (junk) and portion sizes in people's diets and improved their levels of activity it would reduce diabetes and obesity dramatically. It's got nothing to do with whole grains.

Whole grains induce constant insulin spikes every time they are consumed and cause inflammation. Reduce "whole grains" reduce CVD.

 

[DazalenkoUBewty]

Pretty sure if you reduced the proportion of refined food (junk) and portion sizes in people's diets and improved their levels of activity it would reduce diabetes and obesity dramatically. It's got nothing to do with whole grains.

I think most health issues throughout society are basically caused through lack of movement and over consumption of processed foods.

So sticking to eating mainly whole foods and getting daily exercise, even if it's as little as a half hr walk per day, will work wonders for anybody, whether u like to chew on the muscles of others or not.

 

[Nickos66]

I think most health issues throughout society are basically caused through lack of movement and over consumption of processed foods.

So sticking to eating mainly whole foods and getting daily exercise, even if it's as little as a half hr walk per day, will work wonders for anybody, whether u like to chew on the muscles of others or not.

I think most can agree to that.

Sedentary work/lifestyle and overeating/indulging play a big part too.

 

[Not Important]

Pretty sure if you reduced the proportion of refined food (junk) and portion sizes in people's diets and improved their levels of activity it would reduce diabetes and obesity dramatically. It's got nothing to do with whole grains.

that is fairly much the conventional wisdom.

 

[StiffArm]

It's a fairly big and stupid generalisation to make

You seem to be basing your logic on:
The least healthy meat eaters vs the most healthy vegans

Plenty of vegans make absolutely deplorable food choices, and plenty of meat eaters make very healthy choices.

As I've already said. Stop talking like there's some automatic health benefit and risk of the two. It's up to what the individual makes their diet up of, not what they classify themselves as.

You're basically using the same logic as the people who think all Muslims are terrorists

Ha... give it another 3 posts and you'll have linked me to Hitler
It was a firmly tongue in cheek comment in response to an equally bad generalization.

Of course there are a heap of external factors, and one can be an incredibly unhealthy vegan too (for instance live on fries and oreos).
That said, there IS an automatic health benefit as it instantly becomes a lot harder to eat unhealthy (fast food is almost off the menu), and people start looking at nutrition labels etc.
I base my beliefs in the science and the numbers, not anecdotes.
The science suggests that vegans are, across a population, a fair bit healthier.
Whether that is solely due to the diet or other exernalities, the numbers don't lie.
Populations that have been vegan or nearly so have been some of the longest lived in this world (Ie okinawan islanders in Japan), and the biggest study undertaken on the issue across 10's of thousands of Seventh Day Adventists in the states who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women in the vegans.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/516s.full

Sure it's possible to lead a healthy life that includes animal protein intake, just as a moderate amount of alcohol doesn't automatically consign you to liver failure. But unless you're going to do some research, don't suggest to me what my logic is just because you don't like what I'm saying.

 

[Bazzar]

In 1992 scientists at the Department of Community Health, Tokyo Metropolitan Institute of Gerontology, Japan published a paper which examined the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly[1]. It was based on three epidemiological studies. In the first, nutrient intakes in ninety-four Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. The second demonstrated that high intakes of milk and fats and oils had favourable effects on ten-year survivorship in 422 urban residents aged sixty-nine to seventy-one. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the ten years. In the third study, nutrient intakes were compared between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and sixty-five were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. It found that the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter.


Reference
1. Shibata H., Nagai H., Haga H., Yasumura S., Suzuki T., Suyama Y. Nutrition for the Japanese elderly. Nutr & Health. 1992; 8(2-3): 165-75.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthy-and very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eaten-everything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per day-compared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in China-and at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lard-not vegetable oil-is used in cooking. Okinawans also eat plenty of fibrous root crops such as taro and sweet potatoes. They consume rice and noodles, but not as the main component of the diet. They eat a variety of vegetables such as carrots, white radish, cabbage and greens, both fresh and pickled. Bland tofu is part of the diet, consumed in traditional ways, but on the whole Okinawan cuisine is spicy. Pork dishes are flavored with a mixture of ginger and brown sugar, with chili oil and with "the wicked bite of bitter melon."
--------------

19. Deborah Franklyn, "Take a Lesson from the
People of Okinawa," Health, September 1996, pp 57-63

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Animal Foods, Seafoods, Fat and Okinawa Cuisine
Traditional foods of Okinawa are extremely varied, remarkably nutrient-dense as are all traditional foods and strictly moderated with the philosophy of hara hachi bu. While the diet of Okinawa is, indeed, plant-based it is most certainly not “low fat” as has been posited by some writer-researchers about the native foods of Okinawa. Indeed, all those stirfries of bittermelon and fresh vegetables found in Okinawan bowls are fried in lard and seasoned with sesame oil. I remember fondly that a slab of salt pork graced every bowl of udon I slurped up while living on the island. Pig fat is not, as you can imagine, a low-fat food yet the Okinawans are fond of it. Much of the fat consumed is pastured as pigs are commonly raised at home in the gardens of Okinawan homes. Pork and lard, like avocado and olive oil, are a remarkably good source of monounsaturated fatty acid and, if that pig roots around on sunny days, it is also a remarkably source of vitamin D.
The diet of Okinawa also includes considerably more animal products and meat – usually in the form of pork – than that of the mainland Japanese or even the Chinese. Goat and chicken play a lesser, but still important, role in Okinawan cuisine. Okinawans average about 100 grams or one modest portion of meat per person per day. Animal foods are important on Okinawa and, like all food, play a role in the population’s general health, well-being and longevity.
Fish plays an important role in the cooking of Okinawa as well. Seafoods eaten are various and numerous – with Okinawans averaging about 200 grams of fish per day.

http://stanford.wellsphere.com/healthy-eating-article/hara-hachi-bu-lessons-from-okinawa/845480
Quote:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________




Abstract quote:

The present paper examines the relationship of nutritional status to further life expectancy and health status in the Japanese elderly based on 3 epidemiological studies. 1. Nutrient intakes in 94 Japanese centenarians investigated between 1972 and 1973 showed a higher proportion of animal protein to total proteins than in contemporary average Japanese. 2. High intakes of milk and fats and oils had favorable effects on 10-year (1976-1986) survivorship in 422 urban residents aged 69-71. The survivors revealed a longitudinal increase in intakes of animal foods such as eggs, milk, fish and meat over the 10 years. 3. Nutrient intakes were compared, based on 24-hour dietary records, between a sample from Okinawa Prefecture where life expectancies at birth and 65 were the longest in Japan, and a sample from Akita Prefecture where the life expectancies were much shorter. Intakes of Ca, Fe, vitamins A, B1, B2, C, and the proportion of energy from proteins and fats were significantly higher in the former than in the latter. Intakes of carbohydrates and NaCl were lower.


Nutr Health. 1992;8(2-3):165-75. Nutrition for the Japanese elderly., Shibata H,et al.

 

[StiffArm]

<2%

Where did you come up with that figure? Forks over knives or something

Something like that, don't remember exactly where.

Nice find on the paper. There's an argument I won't use again.

To clarify though, your paper looks at their diet in 1972. Not what it was historically, and their expected life has gone down significantly in recent decades from what it was.

 

[Bazzar]

And as above "While the diet of Okinawa is, indeed, plant-based"

So true, my low carb - primal based diet is also predominantly plant based, around 70%, the remaining "minority" of 30% is animal.

It's the perfect balanced diet.

 

[StiffArm]

Anyway, I'm going to move over to the other thread if you want to discuss.

Understand you getting pissy about a poor generalization Tim, and I get the points your making.

Something we find frustrating is the double standards we're given. Everything a vegan posts has to be peer reviewed, not from a "bias" source, and even then will be explained away anecdotally both with "I know such and such unhealthy vegan" while at the same time "stats are slanted due to vegans tending to make healthier choices because they care".

In return we have to deal with arguments like "circle of life", "if we didn't eat them the cows would overpopulate the world", "where do you get your protein", "what about them there teef?", "but plants have feelings too" and "if you're not saving all animals why bother?" (the last one being the one I reacted to earlier)

It's one I'm fine with, but it is a double standard.

 

[StiffArm]

And as above "While the diet of Okinawa is, indeed, plant-based"

So true, my low carb - primal based diet is also predominantly plant based, around 70%, the remaining "minority" of 30% is animal.

It's the perfect balanced diet.

I've got conflicting sources on the proportion, not going to comment further on it till I know more. I said more in the other thread about some inherent health negatives with animal protein. Happy to engage further over there.

 

[Bazzar]

Something like that, don't remember exactly where.

Nice find on the paper. There's an argument I won't use again.

To clarify though, your paper looks at their diet in 1972. Not what it was historically, and their expected life has gone down significantly in recent decades from what it was.

That's because it's been Westernised. IE grains amongst other things, they Never had grain pre 60's (except for minimal imports so to speak) and rive was raely consumed.

In this time period female mortality has remained the same, it's only the males that have changed, and they have now come into to line with men from the mainland, still great and up with the best on the plane but a significant change nonetheless

 

[Bazzar]

I've got conflicting sources on the proportion, not going to comment further on it till I know more. I said more in the other thread about some inherent health negatives with animal protein. Happy to engage further over there.

What proportion?

 

[StiffArm]

What proportion?

Historical proportions of animal protein.
You'll agree 30% is very different to <2%.

My understanding is that animal protein consumption jumped a heap post WWII in addition to grain being added. Anyway, it's not an argument I need so I'm just going to steer clear of it in future.

Edit: ps, love your sig