Dimma gets another 2 years

[CoggaRules]

We don't want another rushed inclusion like Griffiths and Conca were in the finals even though they haven't played a game in weeks.

That kind of decision making seems like it is because of the pressure he was in. Giving him a 2 year contract gives him a clear mind to make sound decisions, and that is what the club wants if he is going to coach this year anyway.

That is my take on this

So what you are saying is he failed because he was under pressure correct? Like we dont want him to be under pressure when selecting the side correct? Then when he is trying to rev the team up so we dont get "stage fright", he will be calm and collected and will "implore" the players who love him etc to be on their game from the first bounce, so we dont lose against the Melbournes of this world on Tommy day etc...correct?

 

[CoggaRules]

He needs to improve tactically, just see some game day situations unfolding and we are so slow to react.
Some coaches are naturally brilliant tacticians while others just make slow and steady progress, Dimma is the later.

Steady progress? Dude, you either have it or you dont and we are in year 7 now and still waiting for the moon to turn blue...
at the end of the day its like this IMO. If you are not a game day coach then why on earth would anyone sign you up as a coach..
Thats another wtf about this extension.

 

[Lsta062]

So what you are saying is he failed because he was under pressure correct? Like we dont want him to be under pressure when selecting the side correct? Then when he is trying to rev the team up so we dont get "stage fright", he will be calm and collected and will "implore" the players who love him etc to be on their game from the first bounce, so we dont lose against the Melbournes of this world on Tommy day etc...correct?

To be honest, Hardwick convinces me more as a coach than our list. This is why I don't mind (although not ecstatic) the club signing him this early so that he can continue playing the kids when appropriate so that we can find the right balance to contend.

I think that the losses against teams like Melbourne is because of the players. He can't kick the ball for them - they have to go out and follow his instructions.

But, I do think that the loss against North Melbourne in the EF last year was on him. I could tell it wasn't going to be a fun outcome the moment I saw the inclusion of Ben Griffiths and Reece Conca, who haven't even played for weeks.

 

[CoggaRules]

I mean lets get real and take away the polish and shit that the board want us to buy.
He was hired and took control of a shit truck list. He took that shit truck list to where shit truck lists go, nothing more. A top notch coach in the making would have pulled out a surprise and finished 10th or something.
The club hired this Blair dude and he pinpointed a couple of recycleds and we pounced to "improve" our list and along with our recruiting the list improved and we improved on the ladder as is expected with an improved list, no more no less...we have climbed the ladder in the same graph as our list has matured and improved, no more no less...again, standard shit that is average
What I see in all that is a coach who cannot do anymore than the standard shit that any tom dick and harry worth his weight as a coach would more often than not do...
We have rewarded average once again and rewarded it well..with 2 years..we tend to see average as something that is good, seeing as we were used for to long to shit.

 

[I Rock]

The WTF factor on this extension suggests there is something behind this and it aint "oh he has taken us to 3 consecutive final series". Tipping this is politically motivated in terms of the board and reelections. Its the only viable excuse...I mean yeah Bucks got 1 and yeah he hasnt taken the scum to 3 consecutive finals, but yeah also he has been visibly chiselling that list into one that can hit September and stay in the race after week 1. We on the other hand have been doing diddly squat outside busting our butts to get in, discounting any form of blooding for the future and get our arses handed to us when we see our deficiencies first hand, when our top players are spent and cant run another meter....Just dont get what Benny's game is...it beyond logical to at most extend by a year...its quite astonishing as to what their prime motive is

 

[Football Tragic]

Dimma was exactly the right choice to make when we had a young developing list. He is a good teacher and brought in like minded assistant coaches to help him educate the early selections we made at the draft table. Leppa was fantastic in developing the likes of Rance, Grimes and Jack in terms of body positioning and strategy. Lade has been very good with contested set ups and Choco is an amazing motivator.

Dimma brought with him the defensive strategy (and engineers of that strategy) which is a proven success. Where my greatest concern lies is with teams that can beat that strategy ie North, Geelong, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs. He doesn't seem to have a Plan B.

This is why why I think contracting him for another 2 years was the right thing to do, he needs extra help from either a mentor or experienced assistant coach on game day when Plan A isn't working. He is improving but we don't have another 5 years to wait.

 

[CoggaRules]

Dimma was exactly the right choice to make when we had a young developing list. He is a good teacher and brought in like minded assistant coaches to help him educate the early selections we made at the draft table. Leppa was fantastic in developing the likes of Rance, Grimes and Jack in terms of body positioning and strategy. Lade has been very good with contested set ups and Choco is an amazing motivator.

Dimma brought with him the defensive strategy (and engineers of that strategy) which is a proven success. Where my greatest concern lies is with teams that can beat that strategy ie North, Geelong, Melbourne and Western Bulldogs. He doesn't seem to have a Plan B.

This is why why I think contracting him for another 2 years was the right thing to do, he needs extra help from either a mentor or experienced assistant coach on game day when Plan A isn't working. He is improving but we don't have another 5 years to wait.

ummm...he got a 2 year extension to his already 7 years at the helm dude...he didnt get his first 2 year contract as a coach. Tipping if he needs a mentor or an experienced assistant then if that assistant or that mentor has an affect, pay Dimma out and hire them...

 

[Football Tragic]

ummm...he got a 2 year extension to his already 7 years at the helm dude...he didnt get his first 2 year contract as a coach. Tipping if he needs a mentor or an experienced assistant then if that assistant or that mentor has an affect, pay Dimma out and hire them...

A lot of coaches have strong assistants that can assist them in the box on game day. I'm not convinced Lade and co have the experience or game nous to help him strategically. Hawthorn has Ratten & Beverage, Geelong has Knights, Port has Voss etc. We often play Chocco on the bench but perhaps he needs to be in the box helping but if not I feel Dimma needs more help on game day

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

should get mick to come in the box, million dolla spitballs

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Game day coaching is a little over rated.
I was talking to someone in the highest level of the Hawthorn coterie - only 12 invited to this group. They are allowed to sit in the coaches box during the season. This person said Clarkson did 99% of the coaching during the week and not much at all during game day. Sure he'd send messages down to the "line coaches", but it was more on reiterating instructions to what the players weren't doing that they were supposed to.

 

[I Rock]

Game day coaching is a little over rated.
I was talking to someone in the highest level of the Hawthorn coterie - only 12 invited to this group. They are allowed to sit in the coaches box during the season. This person said Clarkson did 99% of the coaching during the week and not much at all during game day. Sure he'd send messages down to the "line coaches", but it was more on reiterating instructions to what the players weren't doing that they were supposed to.

Maybe why teams tend to loose to the same Clubs each year and play well against others. Team Plans do better against some and not others.

 

[Goldfrog]

I mean lets get real and take away the polish and shit that the board want us to buy.
He was hired and took control of a shit truck list. He took that shit truck list to where shit truck lists go, nothing more. A top notch coach in the making would have pulled out a surprise and finished 10th or something.
The club hired this Blair dude and he pinpointed a couple of recycleds and we pounced to "improve" our list and along with our recruiting the list improved and we improved on the ladder as is expected with an improved list, no more no less...we have climbed the ladder in the same graph as our list has matured and improved, no more no less...again, standard shit that is average
What I see in all that is a coach who cannot do anymore than the standard shit that any tom dick and harry worth his weight as a coach would more often than not do...
We have rewarded average once again and rewarded it well..with 2 years..we tend to see average as something that is good, seeing as we were used for to long to shit.

 

[Goldfrog]

I would probably express it a bit differently but I get what you are saying. We have improved but we are happy as a club with being reasonably good, rather than pushing bloody hard to being the best. It's hard to justify giving Dimma another 2 years unless we really are content with pretty good and if we do better, then terrific.
Ok for some, I guess, but I would like management to be more desperate and hungrier. Keep the pressure on the coaches and recruiters.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Steady progress? Dude, you either have it or you dont and we are in year 7 now and still waiting for the moon to turn blue...
at the end of the day its like this IMO. If you are not a game day coach then why on earth would anyone sign you up as a coach..
Thats another wtf about this extension.

I have my doubts that about Hardwick which is why I posted that we should wait until the end of the season before extending his contract but credit where it's due he has made improvements since his arrival 7 years ago, our results show this. That is my point re steady progress.
You're obviously certain he is not the man for the job I'm still sitting on the fence and seeing how this year pans out.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I would probably express it a bit differently but I get what you are saying. We have improved but we are happy as a club with being reasonably good, rather than pushing bloody hard to being the best. It's hard to justify giving Dimma another 2 years unless we really are content with pretty good and if we do better, then terrific.
Ok for some, I guess, but I would like management to be more desperate and hungrier. Keep the pressure on the coaches and recruiters.

And yet Buckley got a year and everybody at Collingwood is happy despite taking over a team that had won a flag and had come second the following year only to sink lower and lower every year since....

 

[Lsta062]

We have rewarded average once again and rewarded it well..with 2 years..we tend to see average as something that is good, seeing as we were used for to long to shit.

That last paragraph of this post rings very true. The standards at Richmond are quite low if making finals 3 times in a row with 3 exits is a huge achievement. Other clubs have making finals as a normal thing and not as some huge achievement. Yes, comparing 3 consecutive finals appearances to our own history is a big deal, but if you compare that to some other clubs, their standards are at a point where missing finals for only 3 consecutive years is a big failure, let alone making finals 3 times in 15 or so years and losing them all.

Yes, I am a little worried that signing up Dimma for that long will enforce mediocrity and let them "get away" with dismal performances, but I just don't really know what the club should do to be honest. The club has cut coaches quickly before and that has landed us in a bad position. We have stuck with a coach this time around and that has only led us to 3 consecutive EF losses (which isn't really a huge achievement if you set the bar high).

For that reason, my indifference and lack of outrage at Dimma's signing is not because I think that is the ideal thing to do. I just don't know what the best thing to do is. There aren't proven coaches around (like Lyon and Clarkson) who would fit well with the stage that our list is at, so for that reason, Dimma > untried coaches and proven coaches > Dimma. Therefore, I don't think the club can do much other than resign Dimma.

 

[I Rock]

And yet Buckley got a year and everybody at Collingwood is happy despite taking over a team that had won a flag and had come second the following year only to sink lower and lower every year since....

Bit different as Collingwood took stock and knew a little rebuild was needed.

 

[I Rock]

That last paragraph of this post rings very true. The standards at Richmond are quite low if making finals 3 times in a row with 3 exits is a huge achievement. Other clubs have making finals as a normal thing and not as some huge achievement. Yes, comparing 3 consecutive finals appearances to our own history is a big deal, but if you compare that to some other clubs, their standards are at a point where missing finals for only 3 consecutive years is a big failure, let alone making finals 3 times in 15 or so years and losing them all.

Yes, I am a little worried that signing up Dimma for that long will enforce mediocrity and let them "get away" with dismal performances, but I just don't really know what the club should do to be honest. The club has cut coaches quickly before and that has landed us in a bad position. We have stuck with a coach this time around and that has only led us to 3 consecutive EF losses (which isn't really a huge achievement if you set the bar high).

For that reason, my indifference and lack of outrage at Dimma's signing is not because I think that is the best thing to do. I just don't know what the best thing to do is. There aren't proven coaches around (like Lyon and Clarkson) who would fit well with the stage that our list is at, so for that reason, Dimma > untried coaches and proven coaches > Dimma. Therefore, I don't think the club can do much other than resign Dimma.

Again, everything you just said points to the "there is no reason for it to be done right now" argument.

 

[Lsta062]

Again, everything you just said points to the "there is no reason for it to be done right now" argument.

I get where you guys are coming from, but if there is no other coach that is available and fits with where the current list is at, I don't know why we should pile more stress onto him. If anything, the stress of an uncertain future might have lead him to include underdone players in the EF. If we want to do anything this year, I feel like having a level-headed coach at the helm is important.

If anyone should be under pressure, it is the players. It takes too long to drop an out-of-form player to the VFL and it takes too long to reward VFL form to the extent that I feel like good form does not mean much. But I guess this supports your argument since the coaches are in control of that.

I don't know to be honest. Maybe mediocrity is rewarded by extending it now, or maybe it gives the group the stability they need to perform. What is done is done, and I hope that we end up seeing results.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Bit different as Collingwood took stock and knew a little rebuild was needed.

I guess it's not Hardwick's fault we couldn't get Treloar, Aish, Adams….

 

[NZ_Tiger]

I'm happy with the resigning. We should be more concerned with how Francis Jackson is still at the club, Conca at 6 is most of the reason we aren't winning finals.

 

[I Rock]

I guess it's not Hardwick's fault we couldn't get Treloar, Aish, Adams….

Only if one or all of those Blokes didn't rate Hardwick when they met him.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I guess it's not Hardwick's fault we couldn't get Treloar, Aish, Adams….

Treloar is a loss, the other 2 I couldn't give a flying **** about.

 

[CoggaRules]

Lets get this straight dudes..this aint about re-signing its about when it was done and how long for. That is my beef. Like yeah he might pull out a finals win and then what? hand him another 3 at the end of next year?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I'm happy with the resigning. We should be more concerned with how Francis Jackson is still at the club, Conca at 6 is most of the reason we aren't winning finals.

Heppell was a bad miss.