Do We Bite the Bullet?

[Rave Slave]

Just out of curiosity...

We're all in agreeance that our list needs a constant injection of two or three youngsters to help keep it fresh, and that players like Knights, Meesen, Van Berlo, Jericho and Maric should be given further opportunities to prove themselves at AFL level.

The question I pose is, do we bite the bullet and take the dip in performance so that some of the younger guys get a crack at it or do we ease them in furthermore.

On top of that, how do you say to a player like Skipworth who, by all accounts hasn't warranted being dropped, that his spot will be taken by a young guy.

I personally think we have to get Van Berlo and Knights playing 15 games this year if we're genuine about a youth overhaul from the ground up. On top of that I think Maric and Meesen should get 10 games between them if possible.

If that's the case then how do we work this? Wait too long and you have a list that stagnates (a la Port Adelaide who probably needed to blood youngsters 2 years ago and have only just started doing so now)

Who do we have making way for the youngsters (if anyone at all) or would you prefer to keep the list reasonably similar to the one that snaffled the minor premiership.

FWIW I'd put Knights in Skipworth's place, Van Berlo takes Doughty's spot and push Reilly into the middle (giving Roo more time on a flank with 10 minute bursts in the middle) I think now is the right time to do it as it's shaping as an extremely strong draft next season and it wouldn't hurt us if we jumped up the pecking order (but down the ladder) a few places.

 

[DaveW]

Pushing battlers like Skipworth and Doughty out of the side is a no-brainer.

We'll only see a "dip in performance" if we don't continue to introduce fresh blood.

 

[macca23]

FWIW I'd put Knights in Skipworth's place, Van Berlo takes Doughty's spot and push Reilly into the middle (giving Roo more time on a flank with 10 minute bursts in the middle) I think now is the right time to do it as it's shaping as an extremely strong draft next season and it wouldn't hurt us if we jumped up the pecking order (but down the ladder) a few places.

Yep, happy with that. In fact as Dave W says, it's a no-brainer really.

Kinights and VB must be given every opportunity next year - they are our future.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think we really should be pushing those kids through instead of players like Skippy, Doughty and the likes. As I said in the other thread, 2006 is Reilly's make or break year in my books. If he doesn't come good and become a genuine first 18 player for us next year, then its time to cut our losses and trade him this time next year. As you say next year's draft is considered to be of REAL quality and depth. Next year is the year we should trade these under-achievers or "fringe" type players for draft picks. Geelong used this strategy in 2001 and they practically re-built their team through one draft.

Players like Van Berlo and Knights should be given more time next year. Not just cameo performances but genuinely important roles. Pressure builds diamonds. I think this season was very unique in a lot of ways. Our run with injuries and suspensions this year has just about been a dream. I don't expect to be that lucky 2 years in a row. I do expect us to come down a bit next year. I expect us to make the 8 but I am not sure top 4 is as likely. This of course assumes we get our fair share of injuries and suspensions.

Craigy has said we need to refurbich our midfield. I will hold him to that and no matter whether we are winning or losing, I expect him to carry that out. Players like Knights, Van Berlo, Reilly, Thompson, and maybe the likes of Jericho and Hinge might get more chance there.

Next year there is no Begley but there will be a Bode type player. We must resists the temptation to replace players with "fringe" players. Next year if a player misses through injury or suspension then a youngster MUST come in. We definetly need to push youth into the midfield and into the side in general. Our guns are a year older and when players reach 30, they generally deteriorate pretty quickly. We are in a bit of a no man's land and we got no choice but to push kids through. If we miss the 8 as a result of that then so be it. For the good of the long term furute of the club players like Knights, Van Berlo, Reilly, Jericho and even Hentschel and one of the ruckman MUST play more significant roles in our side, rather than cameo performances off the bench or on flanks.

 

[Rave Slave]

Yep, happy with that. In fact as Dave W says, it's a no-brainer really.

Kinights and VB must be given every opportunity next year - they are our future.

I guess I worded it wrongly

Not so much do we do it but how, it's obvious that guys who have been earmarked as the backbone leadership group and guys who are performing well enough week in week out are going to make way for younger guys.

The thing is, how do we approach it. There's something to be said about loyalty to players whilst at the same time blooding youngsters is a must.

 

[Mr Crow!]

Pushing battlers like Skipworth and Doughty out of the side is a no-brainer.

We'll only see a "dip in performance" if we don't continue to introduce fresh blood.

A year ago I would have agreed, but now I disagree after there efforts and performance in 2005. Skipworth is a great 'unique' player... hard to class him, a crumbing forward kinda, but not with the lightening speed ala Aaron Davey.

Doughty was GREAT for his one percenters this year, and his tagging efforts really helped fill the void that was left by Stenglein.

However, we DO face a serious dilemma. Like all of you here, I really hope the club starts to blood the youngsters, and I can't wait from a supporters point of view... as I look forward to seeing the likes of Knights, Jericho, Meeson, Maric, Van Berlo, etc... if they can excel at AFL level, and evolve into our next generation of regular superstars.

Somebody is going to have to replace Ricciuto, Edwards, McLeod in 3 or 4 years... hopefully those players can come from this current group.

 

[Rave Slave]

A year ago I would have agreed, but now I disagree after there efforts and performance in 2005. Skipworth is a great 'unique' player... hard to class him, a crumbing forward kinda, but not with the lightening speed ala Aaron Davey.

Doughty was GREAT for his one percenters this year, and his tagging efforts really helped fill the void that was left by Stenglein.

However, we DO face a serious dilemma. Like all of you here, I really hope the club starts to blood the youngsters, and I can't wait from a supporters point of view... as I look forward to seeing the likes of Knights, Jericho, Meeson, Maric, Van Berlo, etc... if they can excel at AFL level, and evolve into our next generation of regular superstars.

Somebody is going to have to replace Ricciuto, Edwards, McLeod in 3 or 4 years... hopefully those players can come from this current group.

See this is the problem, become too sentimental and the development suffers.

It's tough to get the right balance

 

[Stiffy_18]

Players who might be in danger of losing their spot next year to younger brigade are

Skipworth
Doughty
Clarke
Possibly Torney

Thats 3-4 youngsters we can push in. Knights and Van Berlo are obvious youngsters ATM. Maric and/or Meesen should back up Biglands BUT that will grealt depend on how much they improve during the PS. As of right now, they just aren't anywhere near AFL ready. Torney's position could be in danger and it could go to someone like Hinge or Jericho. Once again this greatly depends on what these 2 do during the PS.

We really don't know who will step up and who will drop off. Generally the side that finished the season has 4-6 changes at the start of next year. Players that we expect to hold their spot will drop it and players we never expected to step up could step up. Youngsters need to step up and we need to play them but having said that we can't give them a game if their form is ******** poor. NC has given VB 11 games this year BUT IMHO, his form hasn't been outstanding. Solid but nothing sensational. OTOH, Knights has been outstanding.

 

[Drummond]

FWIW I'd put Knights in Skipworth's place, Van Berlo takes Doughty's spot and push Reilly into the middle (giving Roo more time on a flank with 10 minute bursts in the middle) I think now is the right time to do it as it's shaping as an extremely strong draft next season and it wouldn't hurt us if we jumped up the pecking order (but down the ladder) a few places.

Agree 100% with this statement. Doughty & Skippy are never going to get better, play the youth and let them develop.

 

[-VC-]

I've made no secret of the fact that Skippy is currently my favourite Crows player and I admire his determination greatly...but put it this way, if he makes it to 50 games (currently on 36) he's done very well for himself.
Part of me wants him to because of the sentimental side, but the overwhelming feeling is that Knights must get his game time.

 

[- PC -]

This is always the most difficult dilemma of any coach. NC knows the 25 who were the main thrust of the squad is good enough to make top 4. But what happens in 2007? As posted changes occur naturally , either through injury or form. I would play the youngsters in NAB cup and trial games resting the older players ( as its a long season) and seeing who has form.

Skipworth , Doughty and Reilly all must be given an opportunity to stake their claim to their places. We dont see what NC asks or wants from these 3. I do think players like Hart , Clarke and Roo can be rested more to provide leadership and seniority on the bench and we see the introduction of these others.

eg Doughty can play Harts BP while VB plays his HBF. Hart and Roo and Clarke etc will be on the bench or pinch hitting elsewhere

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Look I agree with most comments made already - IMO these kids will be played as we will not have the same injury free run as last year.

I think Craig has already said Roo will spend more time as a forward - so that will open up one spot.

We don't know whether Knights season was one out of the box or not - he definately looked tired and slowed down near the end of the season as I have previously stated - it was reflected in the Grand final.

Our problem now is :

1. Watts was to be our next KPP - we lost him and Krueger - that's one draft period of talls.

2. With the KP players already drafted we could concentrate on rebuilding the midfield.

Now we are back to looking for KPP and Midfielders

 

[Jumbo]

Just out of curiosity...

We're all in agreeance that our list needs a constant injection of two or three youngsters to help keep it fresh, and that players like Knights, Meesen, Van Berlo, Jericho and Maric should be given further opportunities to prove themselves at AFL level.

The question I pose is, do we bite the bullet and take the dip in performance so that some of the younger guys get a crack at it or do we ease them in furthermore.
.

I don't think you guys will go backwards with the inclusion of these players (mostly quality) I think your bigger danger is your senior players being able to continue at the high levels they performed at this year.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

This is always the most difficult dilemma of any coach. NC knows the 25 who were the main thrust of the squad is good enough to make top 4. But what happens in 2007? As posted changes occur naturally , either through injury or form. I would play the youngsters in NAB cup and trial games resting the older players ( as its a long season) and seeing who has form.

Skipworth , Doughty and Reilly all must be given an opportunity to stake their claim to their places. We dont see what NC asks or wants from these 3. I do think players like Hart , Clarke and Roo can be rested more to provide leadership and seniority on the bench and we see the introduction of these others.
eg Doughty can play Harts BP while VB plays his HBF. Hart and Roo and Clarke etc will be on the bench or pinch hitting elsewhere

I disagree PC. If Doughty and Skippy are played ahead of the likes of VB, Knights and to a lesser extent Hinge we are going nowhere. We have seen a fair bit of D and S and IMO they offer little. The should be used as depth players only behind our younsters.

As for our ruckman, in 07 Clarke would have retired and Huddo will be coming back after his injury which means either/or all of Griffen, Meeson and Maric must be ready to provide backup.

For 06, barring injury:

Knights - at least 12 games of QUALITY gametime,

Smith - 1 game. We may as well give him a go, who knows, he may suprise us. However, I have an inkling we will know after just 1 game.

VB- at least 12 games of QUALITY gametime,

Meeson and Maric - at least 5 games,

Hinge - If elevated - at least 5 games,

Gibson, Griffen - Unless they show really good form, another year in the SANFL to develop,

Reilly - Must be a regular in our 22, given at least 75% gametime.

That's a hell of alot of gametime we must give to youngsters. I would expect a small slide down the ladder but we must make sacrifices now rather then take a huge hit in 2-3 years time.

 

[johnnypanther]

i would add Jericho to that list

- IMO he would make a good midfielder or wingman (or even backline) but i do not think that we are using his assets to our nor his best advantage by persisting to play him up forward.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

That's a hell of alot of gametime we must give to youngsters. I would expect a small slide down the ladder but we must make sacrifices now rather then take a huge hit in 2-3 years time.

Iam expecting a small slide next year - as everything this year went right - the chances of it occuring 2 years running?

Our list is very shallow - injuries will expose the list - and Watts departure IMO will haunt us.

 

[Mr Crow!]

It all comes down to this classic question (in regards to playing doughty & skipworth vs. van berlo & knights, etc...):

Do you put your BEST 22 on the ground each week or do you continually blood and develop youth each week.

Personally, I would choose the FORMER as I believe now that this has historical proven success.

Ie: Look at Brisbane when they won their 3 flags... put there best team in every week. Look at us this year, granted we were injury free, but we fielded our best team week in and out, and we finished on top. You really have to play for the moment, and be in it to win it!

 

[macca23]

We don't know whether Knights season was one out of the box or not - he definately looked tired and slowed down near the end of the season as I have previously stated - it was reflected in the Grand final.

On zero pre-season - which was the case for Knights this year?

He can only get better WW.

As for slowing down towards the end of the season - that is factually incorrect.

Admittedly only a mere22 possessions in a Grand Final but 30 and 31 possessions in the 2 finals before that.

Yes, the 18 year old really did stop to a walk, didn't he.

 

[- PC -]

Do you put your BEST 22 on the ground each week or do you continually blood and develop youth each week.

Your best 22 is always going to be a combination of your topline and then who you consider your best. Its subjective, I think when you look at a VB V a Skipworth because they offer different things but you wont lose anything by playing either. The upside is experience gained by VB

In any team you will have players at different stages of experience and it gets back to how much your upside is.

I expect Adelaide to slip to no lower than 6th but would be happy if players got game time

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

On zero pre-season - which was the case for Knights this year?

He can only get better WW.

As for slowing down towards the end of the season - that is factually incorrect.

Admittedly only a mere22 possessions in a Grand Final but 30 and 31 possessions in the 2 finals before that.

Yes, the 18 year old really did stop to a walk, didn't he.

Gee we really do judge Knights harshly don't we. He was the standout player in the 2 finals leading up to the GF and beucase he ONLY has 22 possessions in the GF there are now doubts over his ability. Do we honestly expect an 18 years old to have 30+ possessions in every game.

The kid is going to be a gun - end of story.

 

[macca23]

Gee we really do rate Knights harshly don't we. He was the standout player in the 2 finals leading up to the GF and beucase he ONLY has 22 possessions in the GF there are now doubts over his ability. Do we honestly expect an 18 years old to have 30+ possessions in every game.

The kid is going to be a gun - end of story.

Correct.

 

[Mr Crow!]

Gee we really do judge Knights harshly don't we. He was the standout player in the 2 finals leading up to the GF and beucase he ONLY has 22 possessions in the GF there are now doubts over his ability. Do we honestly expect an 18 years old to have 30+ possessions in every game.

The kid is going to be a gun - end of story.

This is the first time that I have heard about him playing in the SANFL finals... it is getting me excited... he sounds like he is going to be a great player! What position is he mainly played in? He is obviously an on-baller, isn't he? Can he come off a half-back flank as well? Is he versitile (that is what I am trying to get at!).

Didn't one of our board members, ie: Triggy or someone else, come out earlier in the year and say that he will develop into the best Crows player EVER (including Roo, that is a HUGE statement)... although I could be wrong, not sure if they were talking about Knights or VB.

 

[macca23]

This is the first time that I have heard about him playing in the SANFL finals... it is getting me excited... he sounds like he is going to be a great player! What position is he mainly played in? He is obviously an on-baller, isn't he? Can he come off a half-back flank as well? Is he versitile (that is what I am trying to get at!).

Didn't one of our board members, ie: Triggy or someone else, come out earlier in the year and say that he will develop into the best Crows player EVER (including Roo, that is a HUGE statement)... although I could be wrong, not sure if they were talking about Knights or VB.

I've seen most of his games since he played A grade SANFL and I'm excited!!

IMO he is the next Simon Goodwin of the Crows.

He is an on-baller who keeps his feet all the time and reads the fall of the ball beautifully.

Rests on a HF flank and once again crumbs the ball beautifully.

He is an absolute ball magnet.

The player that was referred to as becoming one of the best Crows players ever was Van Berlo. A huge rap for an 18 year old, but when did we last have an 18 year old playing in finals. I think it was John Reid that made that statement, but I could well stand corrected on that one.

Whether he reaches those heights or nots, Van Berlo will develop into a very very good player at worst - as will Knights.

 

[Mr Crow!]

Hopefully, in the long term, they are NOT the next Stenglein and Johnson.

Isn't VB from WA, and Knights from Victoria?

 

[macca23]

Hopefully, in the long term, they are NOT the next Stenglein and Johnson.

Isn't VB from WA, and Knights from Victoria?

Correct.

Strangely enough, I'm not worried about that factor with these 2 lads.

When you see them interviewed they come across as well balanced young lads, appreciative of their opportunities and just enjoying playing footy and life in general.

Knights is particular was very impressive in an interview shown on GF day when he said that life is a gift and that he tries to enjoy every day of it.