Do we elevate Brandon Jack?

[swansfan51]

I expect everyone to come charging into the thread saying "of course we do, what a stupid question" but you will quickly see that it isn't that simple.

Brandon has shown he probably deserves a spot on a senior list, as he has played a decent role for us when called upon. However:

1) Teams need to make a minimum of 3 changes to the senior list, of which a minimum of 2 must be new draft picks (AFL laws)
2) Dane Rampe is a certainty to be elevated before Brandon Jack
3) We look to have a shortage of players departing the senior list

Who is going? Martin Mattner is obviously one. Most are tipping Jude Bolton to be the second. The players most will nominate for delisting, Tony Armstrong and Tommy Walsh, are under contract for 2014. Who else is going? Mitch Morton will no doubt be mentioned (although I'd much prefer us to be playing him and to keep him), but is there anyone else? Jesse White's name may be mentioned but if he left it would likely be a trade for a draft pick or player, which leaves us in the same position. The only thing that would change it is if Jesse was traded for a pick upgrade.

If all we lose is Mattner, Bolton and Morton, that leaves 3 list spots. Rampe's elevation will take one, the selection of Lloyd Perris will take a 2nd, leaving us with only 1 active draft pick. There's no space for Brandon Jack unless we delist at least another player, probably 2.

If we elevate Brandon Jack then we lose our 2nd round draft pick unless other players are delisted. Lloyd Perris can be taken with our last active pick, meaning the 1st and 2nd rounders can be used on best available.

Do we ask Brandon to take one for the team, even though his efforts have warranted an upgrade? Or is there dead wood hanging around the list I've missed?

 

[SM]

The way I see it:

OUT: Bolton, Mattner, Lockyer, Brown
IN: Rampe, Pick 1, Pick 2, Pick 3

If Shaw retires, we bring in Jack, if not, leave him on the rookie list with Xavier for another year.

 

[S120]

Rampe's elevation could take up one of our 3 mandatory picks, couldn't it?

 

[swansfan51]

Rampe's elevation could take up one of our 3 mandatory picks, couldn't it?

Yes it does, I highlighted that in the OP. That's actually part of the problem, meaning if we only make the minimum 3 changes we are only going to have our 1st rounder as an active pick.

 

[SM]

In which case:

OUT: Mattner, Bolton, Lockyer, Brown
IN: Jack, Rampe, 2nd Round Draft Pick

And we could bundle our first and second round picks to get an upgrade of our second rounder.

 

[S120]

Yes it does, I highlighted that in the OP. That's actually part of the problem, meaning if we only make the minimum 3 changes we are only going to have our 1st rounder as an active pick.

Do you mean the problem of only having 1 active pick is that we wouldn't be replenishing our list with more young players? Because if that is the worry, I think that is partly alleviated by the fact that our rookie list of 2013 is looking like it is going to be hugely profitable (relative to a normal batch of rookie selections).

Rampe, Jack, Richards and Biggs have all been elevated meaning that the club thinks they can play senior football if needed right now and then add Dan Robinson and Jake Lloyd who have been winning plaudits all year for how they have performed in their first year of professional football. Amongst that lot, we might be able to afford ourselves a year of minimal change on our list as we have many young players who could be pushing onto our senior list either this year or next year.

 

[swansfan51]

The problem of only having 1 active pick being that we wouldn't be replenishing our list with more young players?

More that we're "wasting" our 2nd round pick by not using it. Basically if we feel a player available at pick 35ish would be better than anyone on our list, we should be using it. SM made a good point though, I'd forgotten about Lockyer, and he would be odds-on to be delisted. Which is a shame as he showed good form here in WA.

 

[S120]

More that we're "wasting" our 2nd round pick by not using it. Basically if we feel a player available at pick 35ish would be better than anyone on our list, we should be using it. SM made a good point though, I'd forgotten about Lockyer, and he would be odds-on to be delisted. Which is a shame as he showed good form here in WA.

Using SM's model, we could upgrade Rampe and Jack as well as picking Perris in the second round and picking whoever in the first round with Mattner and Jude retiring (although that doesn't seem like a done deal any longer if you listen to what he's saying) as well as cutting Brown and Lockyer. Brown has sounded like he's been at least OK this year so that could be a tough decision.

 

[Lazar Goz]

Was thinking about this after compiling my off season thoughts for our list.
I think its best we leave brandon on the RL for another year when more players retire or hold him back for an injury if one happens.

 

[Lazar Goz]

I expect everyone to come charging into the thread saying "of course we do, what a stupid question" but you will quickly see that it isn't that simple.

Brandon has shown he probably deserves a spot on a senior list, as he has played a decent role for us when called upon. However:

1) Teams need to make a minimum of 3 changes to the senior list, of which a minimum of 2 must be new draft picks (AFL laws)
2) Dane Rampe is a certainty to be elevated before Brandon Jack
3) We look to have a shortage of players departing the senior list

Who is going? Martin Mattner is obviously one. Most are tipping Jude Bolton to be the second. The players most will nominate for delisting, Tony Armstrong and Tommy Walsh, are under contract for 2014. Who else is going? Mitch Morton will no doubt be mentioned (although I'd much prefer us to be playing him and to keep him), but is there anyone else? Jesse White's name may be mentioned but if he left it would likely be a trade for a draft pick or player, which leaves us in the same position. The only thing that would change it is if Jesse was traded for a pick upgrade.

If all we lose is Mattner, Bolton and Morton, that leaves 3 list spots. Rampe's elevation will take one, the selection of Lloyd Perris will take a 2nd, leaving us with only 1 active draft pick. There's no space for Brandon Jack unless we delist at least another player, probably 2.

If we elevate Brandon Jack then we lose our 2nd round draft pick unless other players are delisted. Lloyd Perris can be taken with our last active pick, meaning the 1st and 2nd rounders can be used on best available.

Do we ask Brandon to take one for the team, even though his efforts have warranted an upgrade? Or is there dead wood hanging around the list I've missed?

Dont mind who goes but we definetly need to use our first and second rounders (15 & 35 guesstimate) on young players

In:
15 .....
35......
55..... (Pass)??
75..... Perris
95..... Rampe

 

[S120]

Dont mind who goes but we definetly need to use our first and second rounders (15 & 35 guesstimate) on young players

In:
15 .....
35......
55..... (Pass)??
75..... Perris
95..... Rampe

Once you pass on a pick, you can't participate again in the draft.

 

[RUNVS]

Brandan is going to be at least a good player in a few years time, possibly even better than that. He is way ahead of where Kieren was at the same point in his career.

 

[Lazar Goz]

Once you pass on a pick, you can't participate again in the draft.

hmm, didnt know that push perris to pick 55 and rampe to 75 pass on 95

 

[Swansujelly]

as a scholarship player, could we not get Perris in the PSD or rookie drafts? Or is like the f/s and other teams can bid on him?

 

[swansfan51]

as a scholarship player, could we not get Perris in the PSD or rookie drafts? Or is like the f/s and other teams can bid on him?

PSD doesn't matter, it still takes a senior list spot. He's way above a rookie spot, we could take the risk but he'd be within his rights to turn us down for a club that wanted him on the senior list.

 

[Swansujelly]

PSD doesn't matter, it still takes a senior list spot. He's way above a rookie spot, we could take the risk but he'd be within his rights to turn us down for a club that wanted him on the senior list.

ok. Thanks for clearing that up. OP, Jack HAS done enough, and should be elevated, along with Rampe.

 

[swansfan51]

ok. Thanks for clearing that up. OP, Jack HAS done enough, and should be elevated, along with Rampe.

Who would you delist? I'm fine with the call that he deserves it, just emphasising that 2 more need to lose their jobs if we promote him.

 

[CAS79]

Once you pass on a pick, you can't participate again in the draft.

pre selects aside.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

By some comments on these boards I'm expecting to see Bolton, Shaw, Goodes, Rok & LRT all retire and Morton, Armstrong, Walsh, Locky, Brown, Jesse & Cunningham all to be gotten rid of....

Sersiously though, BJ deserves his spot & I hope we can make it work out for the young lad. I'm not as knowledgable with the way the rules work but would think at the worst we could just useup one of our picks couldn't we?

 

[Swansujelly]

Who would you delist? I'm fine with the call that he deserves it, just emphasising that 2 more need to lose their jobs if we promote him.

It's a tough call, and in the end he probably won't be. I was just saying he has done enough and should, but in reality there won't be room. As someone said, perhaps Jesse gets traded for an upgrade, who knows, but if jesse carries his form, he may price himself out of Sydney, and good luck to him if he does, Freo seems keen. Failing that, Morton seems likely with Rohan coming back, and one of Dick, Brown, Marsh or Lockyear, although a ressie watcher would be the best person to ask.

 

[robbieando]

Not elevating him wouldn't be the end of the world. Regardless we have him on our Rookie List for a second year anyway, so if push comes to shove we can just keep him there and promote him once next season starts as the rules allow.

Senior or Rookie List he is going to be a Swan come 2014 and I no longer see the difference between the two because we gain so much benefit from the rookie list that as a club its like its merged into one giant list.

 

[Superstar swan]

I'd be in favour of leaving on the rookie list . The club won't use all the picks in the ND as they would like to have a pick or 2 in the psd.he would be the first can off the rank if we get an injury and would at least get the mid year rookie elevation.

Depending on retirements we may only have a couple of spots. Will be hard to delist Armstrong and Walsh as they are contracted for next year. Someone like a Lockyer may get let loose

 

[BarneyBent]

Completely depends. If there's room for him, great, if there's not, that's fine. The choice to elevate him or not will simply come down to the position our list is in going into the draft, and that is very much up in the air.

 

[baja]

Not elevating him wouldn't be the end of the world. Regardless we have him on our Rookie List for a second year anyway, so if push comes to shove we can just keep him there and promote him once next season starts as the rules allow.

Senior or Rookie List he is going to be a Swan come 2014 and I no longer see the difference between the two because we gain so much benefit from the rookie list that as a club its like its merged into one giant list.

Yep, hes not going anywhere.

 

[Tedeski]

What a terrible predicament we find ourselves in!

Last year we moved Seaby, Moore, TDL & Heath on.

Some handy names........we thought......but none of them have really set the world on fire elsewhere or were unwanted by other teams.

Rest assured between now & the end of the season there will be some surprises in store. Since Jolly wanted out, we've been quite fortunate in having a happy group of players wanting to stay for that realistic chance at a p'ship.

Now last year we achieved that with some players missing out Amongst those that are p'ship players, there is always the chance that one of them gets tempted to move on, having achieved the ultimate, in order to set themselves up financially with more security.

Could Mumford be one that actually fits this description wanting to move on?
I guess we've been fortunate thus far in keeping some players but our recruiting guys will have pencilled in some gun youngsters that will help us stay competitive in years to come. Therefore, unfortunately for us fans, some list management will be needed to accommodate these future 'loved' players.
It was only a few years ago that we gave Josh Kennedy the opportunity to play senior footy every week.
It's only natural in this competition that another team will offer someone like Jed Lamb a handy fee to go home for regular game time.
It will happen. We will be upset as fans but more importantly for us as a club, we will stay competitive in the coming years.
Look no further than the Hawks & the Cats having lost Josh Kennedy & Ablett respectively.
It is the system in place that teaches the next group of kids, that is of utmost importance when next challenging for a p'ship.
Rest assured fellow Swans, that we have this system in place so that in 3 or 4 years time, we will be talking about how wonderfully well our 2013, 2014 & 2015 draftees are travelling.
Hands up who was concerned when Kels, Lockett & Roos retired. Hands up who was concerned when Baz, Leo, Bolts MickyO finished up.

Hands up who will be concerned when Jude, Rhino, Shaw, Goodesy & LRT finish up.
See the pattern.
Thankfully because of the strong system we have in place now, one of our stars will retire or move on, & two new ones will be born!

Chins up & be thankful we support this club!