Review Do we need a new coach? Part 2

[Ancient Tiger]

Never claimed that it was, just stated that we were on track with the plan to achieve it. 2016 was a massive let down but given we'd played finals 3 3 straight seasons, but prior to that it was 2 in 30 seasons.

A club we should be aiming to be like is Sydney. They have played finals in 18 of the last 21 seasons, in that time they have played in 6 Grand Finals winning 2. Prior to that they had played in 6 finals series over 60 years. That is achieving sustained success after a long period of constant failure.

But it seems everyone wants success now and every year moving forward. Every time a club jumps up they seem to be the ones we should emulate not the ones that are there year after year.

You are wrong. Real supporters are prepared to wait for success. However, the wait is for a solid, from the ground up build of the team. Guys like Gordon, Thomas, Farmer, Lambert, Marcon....the list goes on, are not the way to build a team. Short cuts from the guy who said no more short cuts. Refusing to drop certain older players while some younger players are not getting a run to help fast track their development. The issues run deep. Part of the problem is he constantly fails to recognise that he has gone down the wrong path. I recognise all coaches make mistakes but the good ones will say they have and correct their direction quickly.
I'm hoping that Caracella, Leppa and the X man can step in and do this for him. It's his last chance.

 

[_RT_]

You are wrong. Real supporters are prepared to wait for success. However, the wait is for a solid, from the ground up build of the team. Guys like Gordon, Thomas, Farmer, Lambert, Marcon....the list goes on, are not the way to build a team. Short cuts from the guy who said no more short cuts. Refusing to drop certain older players while some younger players are not getting a run to help fast track their development. The issues run deep. Part of the problem is he constantly fails to recognise that he has gone down the wrong path. I recognise all coaches make mistakes but the good ones will say they have and correct their direction quickly.
I'm hoping that Caracella, Leppa and the X man can step in and do this for him. It's his last chance.

Must not be many real supporters on here then, because one poor season after 3 straight finals appearances has them screaming for Dimma to be sacked despite the season having finished 2 months ago. People speak about the build and how it was done with shortcuts and yet when we made finals back in 2013, nobody really complained, when we backed it up in 2014 after being 3-9 at one stage again I don't recall many complaints once finals were secured. For mine the real rumblings only began after the 2015 finals failure and it was only this years failure that saw the complaints grow louder.

You talk about us taking Gordon Thomas Farmer Lambert Marcon and so on being the wrong way to build the list, how do you propose we build the list then? When you get down to picks in the 50+ range you're not always going to pick out gems or future 200 game players. Most of the time you're going to end up with players who get their 2 years in the system and get spat out the other side. On the other hand you can find guys like Markov Short Lloyd Miles & Grimes. Granted there have been more failures than success with late draft picks but name a club that hasn't had failures late in the draft.

As for younger players not getting a game over older 'favourites'. I've had this discussion before with others, do we play kids because they are young or do we play kids because they have earned them? A good example if fan favorite McBean, everyone wanted him played ahead of Vickery this season when Vickery was playing poorly, but it never happened. Come seasons end Vickery gets picked up by Hawthorn who aren't exactly mugs at targeting talent for needs while McBean is going to be playing in front of a few hundred in a local league. I've always been a believer that a player has to earn their spot in the 22. That means that a player outside the 22 needs to bash the door down to force their way in or be in form when an injury hits so that they come in ready to have an impact. That is what a side like Sydney does, they force players to earn their spot, they don't just hand out a spot because the player is young and talented. To me that is a key reason why they have been able to play finals for 18 of 21 years, when they bring in younger player more often than not those kids are ready to make an impact from the get go.

As I said they are a team that we should be aspiring to be like, not the teams that come from nowhere have a bit of success, 3 years ago it was Port that we should be aiming to emulate, now it's the Dogs. Granted the Dogs have achieved ultimate success and hopefully they continue to taste success, but as quick as it arrived it could easily disappear like it did with Port. To put it another way, would you be happy with a 1 and done flag or would you prefer to have sustained success like Sydney(18 finals appearances in 21 seasons) Hawthorn(9 finals appearances in 10 seasons) Geelong(11 finals appearances in 13 seasons) & Collingwood(8 finals appearances in 10 seasons under Malthouse).

I want what those teams have had and after taking us from down and out to 3 straight finals I'm prepared to give Hardwick this year to see if he can get us back there or at least getting us back to being competitive each and every week. If he can't then pay him out the final year of his contract and look for the next coach.

 

[Glitch]

Journo: So Dimma how do you think Richmond is travelling this trade period?

Dimma: Look, sides like Hawthorn are great trading clubs. They have a direct trading style and tend to bomb first round picks into deals and hit targets. We tend to chip a few picks and names around and maintain possession as long as possible. Occassionallly we turn it over and get hurt on the rebound. But apart from some obvious skill errors we think our trading style will stand up during big negotiations.

We feel at the moment we’re probably not putting the required effort in and trading the way we want but we don’t put a priority on trading. We’re not really a trading side. Sometimes we trade and sometimes we don’t. But inside the four walls we’ve corralled some names on the whiteboard and experimented with the magnets. And look we think we’re on the right track.

With Brett leaving it’s a great opportunity to expose more of the iceberg. Last year we were hit by global warming and some of the iceberg was missing when we looked for it. Have you guys heard of that? Global warming? Yeah, not something anyone could predict.

But look, the club priority is stability and we work hard to align our off field performance with our on field performance so currently we’re moving some trades sideways and backwards a few times before we pay overs. Yeah, but you know, I have noticed some of the other icebergs seem to be moving a bit faster. Mmmm. Yeah, that’s probably something we might look at before next trade week. Bloody global warming, hahaha.

Look, if we can get some late picks into the hands of teams with players not getting games we think we can still move quickly to grab some cheapies over the back and develop them into flankers. If we can do that I expect us to be playing finals next year.

We’re really not far off. We’re just looking to add some ice cream on top. We feel this global warming thing is just a short term problem that won’t last and that will allow us to select Steve Morris to play along side Taylor and Brandon every single week, so that’ll make a big difference. And we’ve given Dan Richo a new title so we’re expecting a big lift from him this trade period.

The bonus is we’ve retained Ivy, so it’s not like we’ve sold our heart and soul to bring in new talent. Plus if a bit of luck goes our way there’s a chance either last year’s doozy or this year’s doozy might get on the field for a game, or even two. But we’re trying to keep a lid on it and take it one doozy game at a time. I just have to find Ty’s magnet because it’s important to our trade structures. I think Balmey has it. Once I grab that off him I can keep sticking it on the whiteboard until it stops falling off. So really we’re in pretty good shape.

But look, as a club we’re all about being involved in trades. And, you know, look we’ve been in this position before. Like last year, everyone wrote us off but we turned it around and ended up with Yarran. So we take great confidence from that.

Cheers fellas. Have a gatorade. hahahaha

Gold !!

Dim - you shouldn't really post on BF...but since you have, sorry to say Dim, I think you lost the players this trade period as they went straight down the middle and kicked a bag.

Sure you had them chip it around to find Prestia, but then it was straight down the guts with big goals to Caddy, Tank and Lids.

In fact if it wasn't for your chippy play to land Pres, we wouldn't have a caddy a tank and lots of picks next year for quality talls in next years draft.

Well played boys.

 

[I Rock]

Yes.

 

[tigs2010]

Lets be honest, fingers crossed he turns it around because a) we are stuck with him this season whether we like it or not and I'd prefer it not to be a complete waste and b) my eyes can't take watching us dish up the garbage style we played last year.

 

[wegetpumped]

Lets be honest, fingers crossed he turns it around because a) we are stuck with him this season whether we like it or not and I'd prefer it not to be a complete waste and b) my eyes can't take watching us dish up the garbage style we played last year.

I don't think balme will accept what has been going on and we are in good hands.

 

[Not Important]

One of the most ridiculous posts ever. This is an internet footy forum. How can anyone run him down from here? FFS he's had 7 years and you still think he needs a chance? People like you are why we have had no success for 36 years. You like to wallow in mediocrity. Why don't you go take this mediocrity away and follow another team? If you can't be critical of your own team's performances then they will never improve.

if personal attacking me makes you feel better then so be it.

i have been critical of him for his coaching as well and in so doing pointing out where he has gone off the rails in my view.

however, we have only just started pre-season under a new coaching set-up so he deserves a chance to redeem himself.

there are enough people outside the tiger faithful pissing in without some of us inside the camp also doing it.

 

[wegetpumped]

if personal attacking me makes you feel better then so be it.

i have been critical of him for his coaching as well and in so doing pointing out where he has gone off the rails in my view.

however, we have only just started pre-season under a new coaching set-up so he deserves a chance to redeem himself.

there are enough people outside the tiger faithful pissing in without some of us inside the camp also doing it.

The thing is m8 he is still the coach and the other coaches will be teaching his beliefs. Do you think after all this years he is going to change? I hope you are right but i doubt it.

 

[Not Important]

The thing is m8 he is still the coach and the other coaches will be teaching his beliefs. Do you think after all this years he is going to change? I hope you are right but i doubt it.

i think he is on his last chance and if we are not traveling well by mid year he will not see out the season.

but let us give him some breathing space, the club has.

added to which there are not many walk up start coaches out there to replace him.

who would you suggest?

 

[wegetpumped]

i think he is on his last chance and if we are not traveling well by mid year he will not see out the season.

but let us give him some breathing space, the club has.

added to which there are not many walk up start coaches out there to replace him.

who would you suggest?

My dead grandmother i think would be a better successful coach than him. But it's not for me to make a choice its the powers be just like they made a choice to keep him for 9 years. I can only comment on what we have and if they choose someone else whenever i'll comment on what they achieve.
Don't take what ancient said to you to heart its just coming from another frustrated tiger and i apologise for what he said because he would be to stubborn to own up lol.

 

[I Rock]

Lets be honest, fingers crossed he turns it around because a) we are stuck with him this season whether we like it or not and I'd prefer it not to be a complete waste and b) my eyes can't take watching us dish up the garbage style we played last year.

I would hope everyone wants him to turn it around, if he becomes a successful Coach then the Club because a successful Football Team. The later being what we all want, we all just have different ideas/theories on how/if that will happen.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Must not be many real supporters on here then, because one poor season after 3 straight finals appearances has them screaming for Dimma to be sacked despite the season having finished 2 months ago. People speak about the build and how it was done with shortcuts and yet when we made finals back in 2013, nobody really complained, when we backed it up in 2014 after being 3-9 at one stage again I don't recall many complaints once finals were secured. For mine the real rumblings only began after the 2015 finals failure and it was only this years failure that saw the complaints grow louder.

You talk about us taking Gordon Thomas Farmer Lambert Marcon and so on being the wrong way to build the list, how do you propose we build the list then? When you get down to picks in the 50+ range you're not always going to pick out gems or future 200 game players. Most of the time you're going to end up with players who get their 2 years in the system and get spat out the other side. On the other hand you can find guys like Markov Short Lloyd Miles & Grimes. Granted there have been more failures than success with late draft picks but name a club that hasn't had failures late in the draft.

As for younger players not getting a game over older 'favourites'. I've had this discussion before with others, do we play kids because they are young or do we play kids because they have earned them? A good example if fan favorite McBean, everyone wanted him played ahead of Vickery this season when Vickery was playing poorly, but it never happened. Come seasons end Vickery gets picked up by Hawthorn who aren't exactly mugs at targeting talent for needs while McBean is going to be playing in front of a few hundred in a local league. I've always been a believer that a player has to earn their spot in the 22. That means that a player outside the 22 needs to bash the door down to force their way in or be in form when an injury hits so that they come in ready to have an impact. That is what a side like Sydney does, they force players to earn their spot, they don't just hand out a spot because the player is young and talented. To me that is a key reason why they have been able to play finals for 18 of 21 years, when they bring in younger player more often than not those kids are ready to make an impact from the get go.

As I said they are a team that we should be aspiring to be like, not the teams that come from nowhere have a bit of success, 3 years ago it was Port that we should be aiming to emulate, now it's the Dogs. Granted the Dogs have achieved ultimate success and hopefully they continue to taste success, but as quick as it arrived it could easily disappear like it did with Port. To put it another way, would you be happy with a 1 and done flag or would you prefer to have sustained success like Sydney(18 finals appearances in 21 seasons) Hawthorn(9 finals appearances in 10 seasons) Geelong(11 finals appearances in 13 seasons) & Collingwood(8 finals appearances in 10 seasons under Malthouse).

I want what those teams have had and after taking us from down and out to 3 straight finals I'm prepared to give Hardwick this year to see if he can get us back there or at least getting us back to being competitive each and every week. If he can't then pay him out the final year of his contract and look for the next coach.

Some of us have realised for a long time that Dimma isn't up to it and wanted him replaced. Cheap short cuts bit us on the arse this season and if the new coach can't get anything out of the list we face a really long rebuild, yet again.

 

[_RT_]

Some of us have realised for a long time that Dimma isn't up to it and wanted him replaced. Cheap short cuts bit us on the arse this season and if the new coach can't get anything out of the list we face a really long rebuild, yet again.

What cheap shortcuts bit us this year? I read everyone mention these cheap shortcuts, but don't see anyone talk specifically about them. So please can you tell me what they were.

Because as far as I'm concerned what bit us in the ass this year was injuries/issues to important players like Houli Deledio McIntosh & Yarran who were to provide most of our attacking run and carry. What bit us in the ass was Vickery giving us nothing in the second tall forward/ruck role when we needed him to step up and deliver finally. What bit us on the ass was having to rely on inexperienced players like C.Ellis Menadue Markov Short Elton C.Moore to step in and fill the void left by those experienced types not being there.

Hardly what I would call cheap shortcuts and out of that we have a handful of kids we can get excited about. We were also able to bring in 3 potential best 22 types despite having a year from hell. We also find ourselves with an opportunity to rejuvenate the 22 heading into 2017.

 

[Madison]

People say they were calling for this for a while but I don't remember anyone except literally one or two people calling for it before the 2015 finals (I remember Santa/Mopsy and Razor, however Razor was extremely vitriolic and just came across as hating Hardwick on a personal level). We were a game off top four in 2013 and 2015 and set a record making it in 2014. No one was mentioning this until be bombed out in 2015. Say what you like, but you don't get a game off top four 2/3 years without being able to coach at all.

Fair enough some holes have been exposed and I think Dimma may have reach his ceiling, but given where the club was and where it is now, I am happy to see if he can right the ship back to our 2013 style and if he can't he's out the door next year. Didn't hurt Geelong giving Bomber another chance (and yes, I know they had won several finals before their dip).

I think people need to just stfu and let the next 6 months play out, because nothing is obviously happening before the halfway point of the season so we may as well accept that and see how Dimma goes with a bunch of new support around him.

 

[Sir_Loin]

People say they were calling for this for a while but I don't remember anyone except literally one or two people calling for it before the 2015 finals (I remember Santa/Mopsy and Razor, however Razor was extremely vitriolic and just came across as hating Hardwick on a personal level). We were a game off top four in 2013 and 2015 and set a record making it in 2014. No one was mentioning this until be bombed out in 2015. Say what you like, but you don't get a game off top four 2/3 years without being able to coach at all.

Fair enough some holes have been exposed and I think Dimma may have reach his ceiling, but given where the club was and where it is now, I am happy to see if he can right the ship back to our 2013 style and if he can't he's out the door next year. Didn't hurt Geelong giving Bomber another chance (and yes, I know they had won several finals before their dip).

I think people need to just stfu and let the next 6 months play out, because nothing is obviously happening before the halfway point of the season so we may as well accept that and see how Dimma goes with a bunch of new support around him.

You want people to STFU about talking about Dimma on the "do we need a new coach" thread?

Geezus. We're getting a bit precious around here

 

[NZ_Tiger]

What cheap shortcuts bit us this year? I read everyone mention these cheap shortcuts, but don't see anyone talk specifically about them. So please can you tell me what they were.

Because as far as I'm concerned what bit us in the ass this year was injuries/issues to important players like Houli Deledio McIntosh & Yarran who were to provide most of our attacking run and carry. What bit us in the ass was Vickery giving us nothing in the second tall forward/ruck role when we needed him to step up and deliver finally. What bit us on the ass was having to rely on inexperienced players like C.Ellis Menadue Markov Short Elton C.Moore to step in and fill the void left by those experienced types not being there.

Hardly what I would call cheap shortcuts and out of that we have a handful of kids we can get excited about. We were also able to bring in 3 potential best 22 types despite having a year from hell. We also find ourselves with an opportunity to rejuvenate the 22 heading into 2017.

Middle age top ups, like Petterd, Thomas etc, may help buy a win but cap long term development. Not investing properly in the draft as a result, also keeping players on too long.

Cheap uninventive gameplan that tried to mitigate the poor skills on our list, knowing full well it would never stand up under finals pressure.

The fact that we have such a poorly skilled list after 7 years of a rebuild.

That our midfield was the worst in the competition as we invested nothing in ball winners and spent our picks on flankers.

Poor rucks, Poor defense and poor forwards with absolutely nothing coming through as we held onto guys who show nothing.

Terrible head recruiter who seemed to have a job with no accountability.

Fact we were only really aiming for finals and never a flag.

 

[Madison]

You want people to STFU about talking about Dimma on the "do we need a new coach" thread?

Geezus. We're getting a bit precious around here

Yeah cos this is the only thread it comes up in.

And anyway, there are 4-5 months or so until the season starts so it's going to be a pretty repetitive conversation (not that it isn't already) since NOTHING is going to happen until then. They aren't going to replace him during the pre season.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Yeah cos this is the only thread it comes up in.

And anyway, there are 4-5 months or so until the season starts so it's going to be a pretty repetitive conversation (not that it isn't already) since NOTHING is going to happen until then. They aren't going to replace him during the pre season.

If you find it so offensive then don't read it . It's exactly why the thread was set up in the first place

A lot of this shit going around at the moment - if it's on topic in the right thread who are you to tell people to STFU?

 

[Nantes]

If you find it so offensive then don't read it . It's exactly why the thread was set up in the first place

A lot of this shit going around at the moment - if it's on topic in the right thread who are you to tell people to STFU?

STFU

 

[Sir_Loin]

STFU

You STFU sassafras

 

[wegetpumped]

You want people to STFU about talking about Dimma on the "do we need a new coach" thread?

Geezus. We're getting a bit precious around here

Lol you can't win anywhere.

 

[Nantes]

You STFU sassafras

I'll STFU when you STFU.

Do we need a new coach? Yes. But it aint gonna happen, at least for 6 months. So you have two options, either whinge about nothing that will keep going around in circles and hate the club. Or buckle up for a win-win ride, either the ball and chain gets axed or he succeeds. Capisce.

*felt weird trying to see the positive side. I feel dirty.

 

[TheSmokingGun]

Middle age top ups, like Petterd, Thomas etc, may help buy a win but cap long term development. Not investing properly in the draft as a result, also keeping players on too long.

Cheap uninventive gameplan that tried to mitigate the poor skills on our list, knowing full well it would never stand up under finals pressure.

The fact that we have such a poorly skilled list after 7 years of a rebuild.

That our midfield was the worst in the competition as we invested nothing in ball winners and spent our picks on flankers.

Poor rucks, Poor defense and poor forwards with absolutely nothing coming through as we held onto guys who show nothing.

Terrible head recruiter who seemed to have a job with no accountability.

Fact we were only really aiming for finals and never a flag.

It is universally known our recruiting is terrible. We pick up mature age top ups because we know that they have a higher chance of getting somewhere then a kid who may or may not deliver even if he shows promise (Fiora, Tambling, Conca and so on).

Our gameplan is an end result of the 2013 EF choke and our poor development, same with skill level.

Our recruiter has no first rounders to stuff up this year, and next year his filthy hands will be away from the reigns.

We aimed for finals because we had only played 2 in 30 years. You've got to give credit to Dimma & Co for that with the list we have. I remember the dark times of the Frawley/Wallace era all too well.

I'm not happy with the result of this H & A season. No one has the right to be, but there is a reason for everything this club has done, and sometimes you have to do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Things have to be different after the new assistants and new recruits, plus a new pre-season. Anyone who thinks Dimma will implement the same things that didn't work must be smoking crack.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

One of the most ridiculous posts ever. This is an internet footy forum. How can anyone run him down from here? FFS he's had 7 years and you still think he needs a chance? People like you are why we have had no success for 36 years. You like to wallow in mediocrity. Why don't you go take this mediocrity away and follow another team? If you can't be critical of your own team's performances then they will never improve.

It wasn't the most ridiculous post for long because you came and posted this. "People like you are the reason......"
******* please!!!

 

[Livonski]

Middle age top ups, like Petterd, Thomas etc, may help buy a win but cap long term development. Not investing properly in the draft as a result, also keeping players on too long.

Cheap uninventive gameplan that tried to mitigate the poor skills on our list, knowing full well it would never stand up under finals pressure.

The fact that we have such a poorly skilled list after 7 years of a rebuild.

That our midfield was the worst in the competition as we invested nothing in ball winners and spent our picks on flankers.

Poor rucks, Poor defense and poor forwards with absolutely nothing coming through as we held onto guys who show nothing.

Terrible head recruiter who seemed to have a job with no accountability.

Fact we were only really aiming for finals and never a flag.

Explains why we've been bottom 2 these last few years.