Do we need another experienced ruck?

[jules101]

With Hille the only ruckman that is strong enough and experienced enough, do we need another experienced ruckman?

 

[Crave]

I think we do, it all depends on Laycock really, but our stocks are down and Ryder needs quite a while to develop, given the expectations on him.
Not someone in their twilight...one in their early to mid 20s who has played a few games and is yet to establish himself in his side like the Dees using Jamar sparingly.

 

[Merv]

I think we do, it all depends on Laycock really, but our stocks are down and Ryder needs quite a while to develop, given the expectations on him.
Not someone in their twilight...one in their early to mid 20s who has played a few games and is yet to establish himself in his side like the Dees using Jamar sparingly.

The last thing we need is another ruckman.
Hille,Laycock,Cartledge,Ryder and rookie Mckinnon , as ruckman and Bradley and Henneman as "make do" ruckman.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

The last thing we need is another ruckman.
Hille,Laycock,Cartledge,Ryder and rookie Mckinnon , as ruckman and Bradley and Henneman as "make do" ruckman.

We just need a good one.

 

[Longy413]

Cartledge and Henneman will be gone at the end of the season.

I don't think a ruckman is a our prime concern, but I'd think long and hard about Michael Gardiner. If he was the best player in the PSD, I'd just about draft him.

Hille and Gardiner would be a fantastic combination and it would allow Ryder to develop his game in the VFL for another year or so. Might also give us the opportunity to play Laycock at CHF and release Lucas a bit.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

Lucas to CHB perhaps, with Lloyd, Johns, Laycock and Gumbleton maybe up forward?

 

[Daytripper]

Lucas to CHB perhaps, with Lloyd, Johns, Laycock and Gumbleton maybe up forward?

That forward line is as slow as treacle.
How would they combat the quick kick in after a behind. We're bad enough in that area as it is.

Not to mention that we would have Lucas, Kepler and possibly Lee lumbering around the back half.

The more you analyse it - the more the drafting of Ryder looks a mistake.

The kid is going to be a good player but we are just far too top heavy.
The club has got to get out of this mindset of best available big man - the game has changed irrevocably in favour of the medium sized player.

We need to look at how the successful clubs of the present era are constructed.

80s football is over (sad to say).

 

[Merv]

That forward line is as slow as treacle.
How would they combat the quick kick in after a behind. We're bad enough in that area as it is.

Not to mention that we would have Lucas, Kepler and possibly Lee lumbering around the back half.

The more you analyse it - the more the drafting of Ryder looks a mistake.

The kid is going to be a good player but we are just far too top heavy.
The club has got to get out of this mindset of best available big man - the game has changed irrevocably in favour of the medium sized player.

We need to look at how the successful clubs of the present era are constructed.

80s football is over (sad to say).

Fantastic reply.
I agree with all, except i don't think Lucas or Lee are lumbering.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

That forward line is as slow as treacle.
How would they combat the quick kick in after a behind. We're bad enough in that area as it is.

Not to mention that we would have Lucas, Kepler and possibly Lee lumbering around the back half.

I don't know about that. Lloyd playing as a half-forward flanker type role, which he could easily do. Have Lovett, Monfries and maybe McVeigh up forward as well and I don't think it's to bad.

One things for certain we do need to find a way to play Lloyd, Johns and Laycock together in the forward 50. Plus Gumbleton, if as it appears we will take him.

 

[Merv]

Cartledge and Henneman will be gone at the end of the season.

I don't think a ruckman is a our prime concern, but I'd think long and hard about Michael Gardiner. If he was the best player in the PSD, I'd just about draft him.

Hille and Gardiner would be a fantastic combination and it would allow Ryder to develop his game in the VFL for another year or so. Might also give us the opportunity to play Laycock at CHF and release Lucas a bit.

Longy, I hope you are right about Henneman but i have been PRAYING for his delisting for 3 years now, so i'm not as confident as you are.

I think the Gardiner experiment would be a great boon for the club as you could then rotate them in the forward line.
ONLY IF we delist Henneman and Cartledge and don't list Mckinnon.
Hille has proven he can be a very dangerous forward and while resting Gardiner could give us something we lack, someone to stand deep in attack and take a contested mark.

We could play Lovett and M.Johnson along side them and rotate the midfilelders through a flank like to give us that Zip and defensive side.

 

[Longy413]

If we draft Gumbleton, just let him play at Bendigo for 12 months.

We don't need to rush him, give him a taste but you don't want any 18 year old playing every game in their first year.

As for Henno - He was probably kept on our list because we had a shortage of talls, not sure we have that this year. Also because he was probably given one last chance. Injury didn't allow that, he also had a contract. He no longer does.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

I think the Gardiner experiment would be a great boon for the club as you could then rotate them in the forward line.
Hille has proven he can be a very dangerous forward and while resting Gardiner could give us something we lack, someone to stand deep in attack and take a contested mark.

But won't that just make us more top heavy? Hille, Johns, Lloyd, Laycock, Lucas, Bradley, Ryder, Lee and now Gardiner. Plus maybe Gumbleton. Where do they all play?

 

[Longy413]

If we draft Gumbleton, I doubt we'll take Gardiner.

But Gumbleton and Ryder play at Bendigo anyway.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

If we draft Gumbleton, I doubt we'll take Gardiner.

But Gumbleton and Ryder play at Bendigo anyway.

How would you play all our talls?
I think Daytripper has converted me. Perhaps we are to top heavy.

 

[Longy413]

How would you play all our talls?
I think Daytripper has converted me. Perhaps we are to top heavy.

If we draft Gumbleton, don't draft Gardiner.

Hille/Laycock ruck.

Lloyd, Lucas, Johns forward.

Fletcher, Lee back.

Not sure about Bradley.

Ryder, Gumbleton at Bendigo. Let them develop.
Ideally you want Gumbleton and Johns to be our next Lloyd/Lucas. Johns is physically ready, Gumbleton won't be. Not for 22 games.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

Would you trade Bradley if we get Gumbleton?

 

[Daytripper]

If we draft Gumbleton, don't draft Gardiner.

Hille/Laycock ruck.

Lloyd, Lucas, Johns forward.

Fletcher, Lee back.

Not sure about Bradley.

Ryder, Gumbleton at Bendigo. Let them develop.
Ideally you want Gumbleton and Johns to be our next Lloyd/Lucas. Johns is physically ready, Gumbleton won't be. Not for 22 games.

What if Gumbleton is too good for Bendigo ?
We might have to play him on pure form.

Same with Ryder.

It would be a ridiculous situation where we can't play all 3 top 10 draft picks (Bradley, Ryder and Gumbleton) just for the sake of team balance.

In hindsight we should have drafted Higgins in front of Ryder. But thats done now so there's nothing we can do to rectify that.

Lets use that lesson however and not draft another KPP.

 

[Longy413]

I reckon Ryder has midfielder pace anyway. I don't have any concerns in regards to his ability to run, turn etc. Lee likewise. They both move like midfielders.

I reckon Ryder could actually play on a wing at times.

If there form warrants, pick them for those that don't.
It just means Johns, Lee, Solomon, Bradley would all want to play good footy.
That isn't a bad thing.
Bolton should be gone, there's another tallish player out of the way.

We still drafted Dempsey and Lonergan who look the goods. And Heath Hocking should also make the grade IMO. Plus Heff and Campo. Monfries, Slattery, Jolley the year before. Stanton, Dyson, Nash, Lovett, Lovett-Murray the year before. We have added a fair number of running players to the mix as well.

Ryder was the right decision, both of Neagle and Lucy would be the question mark for mine.

 

[DaSawx]

I don't think we need Michael Gardiner, I'd rather take the punt with a healthy Laycock or Ryder/Bradley as back-ups.

You'd hope Michael Gardiner wasn't the best player in the PSD

 

[Daytripper]

I reckon Ryder has midfielder pace anyway. I don't have any concerns in regards to his ability to run, turn etc. Lee likewise. They both move like midfielders.

I reckon Ryder could actually play on a wing at times.

If there form warrants, pick them for those that don't.
It just means Johns, Lee, Solomon, Bradley would all want to play good footy.
That isn't a bad thing.
Bolton should be gone, there's another tallish player out of the way.

We still drafted Dempsey and Lonergan who look the goods. And Heath Hocking should also make the grade IMO. Plus Heff and Campo. Monfries, Slattery, Jolley the year before. Stanton, Dyson, Nash, Lovett, Lovett-Murray the year before. We have added a fair number of running players to the mix as well.

Ryder was the right decision, both of Neagle and Lucy would be the question mark for mine.

Ryder and Lee move okay now because they're both kids and have no weight on them.
Wait a few pre-seasons when both will be topping the 90-95kg mark.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

I reckon Ryder has midfielder pace anyway. I don't have any concerns in regards to his ability to run, turn etc. Lee likewise. They both move like midfielders.

I reckon Ryder could actually play on a wing at times.

If there form warrants, pick them for those that don't.
It just means Johns, Lee, Solomon, Bradley would all want to play good footy.
That isn't a bad thing.
Bolton should be gone, there's another tallish player out of the way.

We still drafted Dempsey and Lonergan who look the goods. And Heath Hocking should also make the grade IMO. Plus Heff and Campo. Monfries, Slattery, Jolley the year before. Stanton, Dyson, Nash, Lovett, Lovett-Murray the year before. We have added a fair number of running players to the mix as well.

Ryder was the right decision, both of Neagle and Lucy would be the question mark for mine.

How are Neagle and Lucy going?

And don't get me started on we don't need tall players. Every team that has won the flag has had a key tall player. Always will and the better ones had three tall options up forward with a good ruck combo and very solid key defenders (excluding Sydney who don;t have the same class of defender, but they are damn well effective).

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Ryder and Lee move okay now because they're both kids and have no weight on them.
Wait a few pre-seasons when both will be topping the 90-95kg mark.

I agree with that, but I'll counter by sayin that they can be agile for their size, and when one on one, that can be advantageous.

 

[Daytripper]

How are Neagle and Lucy going?

And don't get me started on we don't need tall players. Every team that has won the flag has had a key tall player. Always will and the better ones had three tall options up forward with a good ruck combo and very solid key defenders (excluding Sydney who don;t have the same class of defender, but they are damn well effective).

Nowadays you only need one.
Sydney had Hall last year and they played against the Eagles who had none.

This season Adelaide have none, the Eagles have one (Lynch), Melbourne have one (Neitz) and Sydney have one (Hall).

None of those teams have a traditional CHF, FF structure and they are clearly the dominant sides of this year. Its been trending this way for a while now.

As I said, we are now in the year 2006.
80s football is dead.

 

[FootyGuru]

I don't think we need Michael Gardiner, I'd rather take the punt with a healthy Laycock or Ryder/Bradley as back-ups.

You'd hope Michael Gardiner wasn't the best player in the PSD

id love getting polak iin the psd. that would allow lee to build up at bendigo and free up bradley and mcphee. what do we all think? id even trade for him because he has a lot of talent and its just wat we need a key defender.

 

[DaSawx]

id love getting polak iin the psd. that would allow lee to build up at bendigo and free up bradley and mcphee. what do we all think? id even trade for him because he has a lot of talent and its just wat we need a key defender.

He's also worth a look at, it's hard to know what's best until October when we have a better idea of who might be available