List Mgmt. Do we REALLY have a cap problem? Lets (attempt to) figure it out

[sideswipe]

Given the players we have out of contract at the end of 2020 I can't see it happening. Aside from the star trio, Cox, Scharenberg and Mihocek are the only uncontracted experienced players who are likely to attract interest elsewhere.

Grundy, De Goey, Moore - with Aish's departure 12 months early I sense the club is confident of re-signing these players

Greenwood, Reid - can't be on much in what shapes as their final year, likewise Varcoe if/when his re-signing is confirmed

Roughead - much like Greenwood and Reid he can't be on much

Pendlebury, Mayne - reduced contracts

Cox, Scharenberg, Mihocek - may attract interest, may be offered slight unders

Murphy, T. Brown, C. Brown, Keane, Kelly, Bosenvulagi - young players who should be re-signed, but I can't see any commanding big dollars at this stage of their footy

Daicos, Tohill, Appleby - playing for their career in 2020


Looking a year further ahead to the end of 2021 Sidebottom and Howe will be offered reduced contracts, with Langdon, Phillips, Stephenson and Sier likely to attract interest from other clubs. Thomas, Elliott and Wilson are the others out of contract at the end of 2021.

If (big if as always) reports are true that Cox has one more game to hit a trigger for 2021, you can add him to the contracted list.

To me, 15 games over two seasons seems like a pretty low trigger...


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[gerryg400]

If (big if as always) reports are true that Cox has one more game to hit a trigger for 2021, you can add him to the contracted list.

To me, 15 games over two seasons seems like a pretty low trigger...


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I think Cox signed on for 3 at the end of 17. So he’s played 38 games in that contract out of 50 so far.

Sideswipe, what is the thinking when these triggers are put in a contract? Who asks for them? What’s in it for each

 

[sideswipe]

I think Cox signed on for 3 at the end of 17. So he’s played 38 games in that contract out of 50 so far.

Sideswipe, what is the thinking when these triggers are put in a contract? Who asks for them? What’s in it for each

Right you are. I guess 13 games a season sounds a reasonable target. Triggers give “security” both ways. Using Cox as an example, when he signed that 3 year contract, the club is saying we would like you for four years but don’t want you for the fourth if you aren’t playing many games. Equally, for Cox, his performance is rewarded with an extra year if he meets the target.


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[gerryg400]

Right you are. I guess 13 games a season sounds a reasonable target. Triggers give “security” both ways. Using Cox as an example, when he signed that 3 year contract, the club is saying we would like you for four years but don’t want you for the fourth if you aren’t playing many games. Equally, for Cox, his performance is rewarded with an extra year if he meets the target.


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That’s makes sense. So in this case Collingwood would have known for some time that this is likely a 4 year contract. It has a low bar. So this trigger would not have snuck up on them. Surely when he played 24 games in year one the money for year 4 was set aside. In essence then, this trigger is not causing a sudden cap catastrophe.

 

[MarkT2]

Or we signed Mayne and Wells to ensure we meet our 95% minimum over the duration of their contracts. As I say, you can make a case either way.

You can make a fanciful case?

 

[MarkT2]

Beams is on $700k. Absolute joke. He should’ve been traded instead of Aish to free up the salary cap. Beams won’t play much more footy for us.

No one would pay him closed to his contract now and in any case he'd have to agree to move. It just wouldn't happen.

 

[CFC2010]

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[HeathySure]

Beams is on a very backended contract that wont kick in til 2021.. hes on peanuts next year

 

[FreeTK]

This is where we differ (and I differ to heaps of posters). I don't think a gun KPF is a necessity. To me, the only area of the ground that it's strictly necessary to have guns is the midfield. Everywhere else can be compensated for by being stronger than the opposition in other areas.

I am not sure the bolded is true. In fact I would say it is dead wrong. The face that your KPF played his best game in the The 2018 PF win is evidence of how important key forwards are. Key position players at each end of the ground influence matches more than any other player.

No one believes that Richmond and West Coast have a better midfield than Collingwood. Richmond and West Coast having key position players (and KPF)is why they beat Collingwood more often than not.

Wins since beginning of 2017 (last 3 seasons)

Richmond 4 Collingwood 2

West Coat 4 Collingwood 2

 

[sr36]

I am not sure the bolded is true. In fact I would say it is dead wrong. The face that your KPF played his best game in the The 2018 PF win is evidence of how important key forwards are. Key position players at each end of the ground influence matches more than any other player.

No one believes that Richmond and West Coast have a better midfield than Collingwood.N Richmond and West Coast having key position players (and KPF)is why they beat Collingwood more often than not.

Wins since beginning of 2017 (last 3 seasons)

Richmond 4 Collingwood 2

West Coat 4 Collingwood 2

I believe that WCE have a harder, faster and stronger midfield and in big games where its gotten really hot, that has prevailed over our extra class. Plus I think you guys have outcoached us in the midfield battles and that has helped to win them.

 

[FreeTK]

I believe that WCE have a harder, faster and stronger midfield and in big games where its gotten really hot, that has prevailed over our extra class. Plus I think you guys have outcoached us in the midfield battles and that has helped to win them.

I just want to be really clear, I didn't come here to fight or troll.

As an Eagles fan, our midfield has a times made me want to pull every hair out of my head.

I've always felt our midfield is our weakest area of the ground. As a result we try to minimise our losses through the middle of the ground with a defensive strategy so we don't get absolutely smashed. eg, making sure we always have a tagger (Hutchings), Yeo is #1 in tackles in the league. Against other good teams, we often lose in the middle of the ground/break even at best and the wins we do get against other good teams is due to efficiency going inside 50 and our scoring accuracy.

Collingwood are a damn good team, similar to us this year (and arguable Richmond before 2019) there is just one puzzle piece not yet locked in. For us it was one more elite/A grade midfielder (hopefully Kelly can deliver). For Collingwood, I think that puzzle piece is a true KPF who can clunk marks and be relied on to kick minimum two goals every week. At the moment Cox is a pseudo KPF in that he provides the target and takes an oppositions KPD, however he doesn't complete enough marks to be damaging in the way that a Lynch/Kennedy can be (with the obvious exception of PF 2018).

If Collingwood could get their hands on a Jeremy Cameron or similar type player, I truly believe the pies would move up to being on equal footing with Richmond and Eagles and would be quite a daunting proposition.

 

[sr36]

I just want to be really clear, I didn't come here to fight or troll.

As an Eagles fan, our midfield has a times made me want to pull every hair out of my head.

I've always felt our midfield is our weakest area of the ground. As a result we try to minimise our losses through the middle of the ground with a defensive strategy so we don't get absolutely smashed. eg, making sure we always have a tagger (Hutchings), Yeo is #1 in tackles in the league. Against other good teams, we often lose in the middle of the ground/break even at best and the wins we do get against other good teams is due to efficiency going inside 50 and our scoring accuracy.

Collingwood are a damn good team, similar to us this year (and arguable Richmond before 2019) there is just one puzzle piece not yet locked in. For us it was one more elite/A grade midfielder (hopefully Kelly can deliver). For Collingwood, I think that puzzle piece is a true KPF who can clunk marks and be relied on to kick minimum two goals every week. At the moment Cox is a pseudo KPF in that he provides the target and takes an oppositions KPD, however he doesn't complete enough marks to be damaging in the way that a Lynch/Kennedy can be (with the obvious exception of PF 2018).

If Collingwood could get their hands on a Jeremy Cameron or similar type player, I truly believe the pies would move up to being on equal footing with Richmond and Eagles and would be quite a daunting proposition.

It was clear that you weren't trolling, which is why I responded. Your view is certainly the view of the majority of Pies supporters too. Personally though, I'd much prefer us to add Patrick Cripps than Jeremy Cameron. We'll never know for sure, because neither are likely to happen. Ultimately though, it's just a different perspective of footy.

 

[FreeTK]

It was clear that you weren't trolling, which is why I responded. Your view is certainly the view of the majority of Pies supporters too. Personally though, I'd much prefer us to add Patrick Cripps than Jeremy Cameron. We'll never know for sure, because neither are likely to happen. Ultimately though, it's just a different perspective of footy.

Yeah just a difference of opinion I guess.
Although Cripps will be coming home in 2021. He will be 26 by that stage and go home factor will kick in. He will top up our midfield once Shuey retires

 

[sr36]

Yeah just a difference of opinion I guess.
Although Cripps will be coming home in 2021. He will be 26 by that stage and go home factor will kick in. He will top up our midfield once Shuey retires

I went on a trip in the delorean from Back to the Future and can testify to you being correct regarding Cripps. Then not long after you guys get done for brown paper bag payments and are sent to join the Blues in a decade or two of oblivion.

 

[FreeTK]

I went on a trip in the delorean from Back to the Future and can testify to you being correct regarding Cripps. Then not long after you guys get done for brown paper bag payments and are sent to join the Blues in a decade or two of oblivion.

We don't have a salary cap issue.

It's already planned out. Josh Kennedy will retire at the end of 2020, we will save his salary for one year and offer Crippa a deal Carlton can't match.

 

[Robroy22]

Since when were West Coast and Richmond the sides to beat? I think from memory we beat them BOTH in 2019???
How do they go when they play themselves?

 

[MarkT2]

Since when were West Coast and Richmond the sides to beat? I think from memory we beat them BOTH in 2019???
How do they go when they play themselves?

Since they won the last 3 flags between them?

 

[Robroy22]

Since they won the last 3 flags between them?

But the Bulldogs aren't then cos they're out of the three season beatup? Any ONE of the top four sides could have won the last 3 flags...US included.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Why would we want either of Keath or Bruce?

Because the fans on Big Footy said we want them!!!!!!!!!!!!