Do we want to lose our PP?

[Lance]

The way we played on the weekend to beat Melbourne, we are likely to win a couple more games. There are 2 winnable games coming up against Hawthorn & then Richmond. If we win any one of these games we will not be eligible for a PP in the National Draft. Due to the upcoming National Draft being considered a "Superdraft" a few quality players are still likely to be around the 17 - 20 mark when the PP is likely to be taken. With our future development in mind and our quest to graduyally climb the ladder again to where we rightly belong, I'd like to know other supporters opinions on this matter?

 

[BlueBelle]

I hear what you're saying but I think winning will do us more good than a PP.

The boys have been threatening all year to string a few good games together and it looks like this time is coming. It will do them the world of good confidence wise and for that reason I am quite happy to miss out on a PP if it means the boys will gain from it psychologically.

 

[deluxeman]

I want to win. If we miss out on a PP at 17 or 18, then it simply means we will have an additional pick later on in the draft where due to the depth of the draft we can still obtain a quality player. THis is not necessarily a bad thing as we saw in 02, when the loss of Picks 1&2 landed us two gems in Simpson and Fisher later on in the draft where as if he had had those two picks we would have quite likely not got those players.

I happy that the AFL introduced these new rules as itavoid clubs cheating the system and no longer do the supporters have to face the prospect of hoping that their team loses. (Which I confess I was guilty of last yr Rd 22 where if he had won it would have meant that Picks 1 and 4 turned into Pick 5)

We need to regain our winning culture and all the young players must experience winning. This is simply far more important than a draft pick that could mean very litte at the end of the day.

 

[Silvagnis]

I want the PP.

We won 10 games in 2004 and 4.5 games last year and that winning feeling which everyone keeps mentioning hasn't made a lick of difference this year. Another pick will give us more options in trade week if a player wants to come home to Victoria. If Leuenberger was available at our second pick (highly unlikely) we could then kill two birds with the one stone with our two second round picks.

A skilled mid and the best ruck.

The other clubs recognise this and are resting their stars to maximise their chances at the draft and for next season. But we're still living in the dark ages and only thinking about the next month of football. The Pies and Hawks tanked last year by booking their stars and as a result picked up four kids in the draft early who are all likely types.

A draw and an honourable loss in the next two games will suffice.

Picking up three kids who are considered AFL ready and promoting them could easily gain us as many members as winning fluff games against two bottom eight sides.

We still lack talent across the board compared to the other sides who'll each pick up a good player according to David Dickson. We need as many irons in the fire as we can get in the form of picks and a team effort can only get you so far.

 

[Philhawk]

I'll be sure to pass on the messages to Pagan when I see him next.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Que sera sera whatever will be will be. The players will determine what they want to happen, we have no input. We can't bag Pagan all year for not winning and then when this young team start to gel and we get Fisher and Waite back to add to our strikepower, start telling Pagan to make them lose.

I didn't think we would finish with any more than 8 points a few weeks back. It does some supporters and budding members good to see some prospects for the future.

I know we want to add as many young talent as possible but I believe we are getting loaded up now if they all reach their potential. We can't keep them in the VFL waiting for injuries.

These guys are almost guaranteed to be part of our side for the next few years:

Walker
Russell
Murphy
Kennedy
Simpson
Whitnall
Blackwell
Fisher
Betts
Bower
Stevens
Fevola
Scotland
Waite
Thornton
Bentick

These guys may be part of our side but haven't made it or have some deficiencies to work on:

S O'hAilpin
Hartlett
Houlihan
Wiggins
Raso
Carrazzo
Edwards
Jackson
Flint
A O'hAilpin

Plus we have 2 top 20 picks this year to bring in. There may come a time when we are leaving very good players in the VFL and they start looking elsewhere.

I think we need to start considering we have the makings of a very good side save for a decent ruckman. The fact that we are where we are is more a reflection of the experience of the side rather than a lack of talent IMO. We can tend to get carried away chasing draft picks. If we were in round 22 with the spoon wrapped up and the top two draft picks staring us in the face, well that may be a different story. It's not. A pick at 18 probably gives us a 50/50 chance of reaping very good rewards. If finishing the season full of confidence helps our guys to get a lease on life, focus on the preseason and bond even more, then it might be worth losing that 50/50 chance. No doubt people will look at who gets picked up with that pick if we don't get it and they will remind us if it is successful. No saying we would have picked that player ourselves though.

I'll place my faith in the players and the club .. and the football gods and accept whatever comes our way.

We have to remember that this isn't junk time in a match we have already lost. Sure the season is gone but our opposition in these matches are out to win. If we beat them, then we do so on our own merits and we show what we are capable of. That will get me through the offseason, as will Gibbs, Hansen or Gumbleton.

 

[mediumsizered]

Cast your minds back to 1998. After 9 rounds we were sitting on 1 & 8. We got some momentum going in the second half of the season. We were never going to make the finals. 12 months later, young players like Whitnall, Hamill, Murphy, Beaumont & Massie propelled us to a GF (along with the experienced players on the list). I am not suggesting we will make the GF next year, or even the finals for that matter, but what would 3 or 4 wins in a row mean to our young kids at the end of the season. Belief. That's what it would mean. Belief that they could match it with some of the better sides in the competition (ie Melbourne, Collingwood, the Weagles, even Sydney) and belief that they are better than the Hawks, the Tigers, the Bombers. Part of moving up the ladder will be knowing that when they play some of the lesser sides, they can beat them. Therefore we must beat Hawthorn and Richmond and hopefully Collingwood. It will be worth much more than one pick in the draft.

 

[mike ockerts]

Que sera sera whatever will be will be. The players will determine what they want to happen, we have no input. We can't bag Pagan all year for not winning and then when this young team start to gel and we get Fisher and Waite back to add to our strikepower, start telling Pagan to make them lose.

I didn't think we would finish with any more than 8 points a few weeks back. It does some supporters and budding members good to see some prospects for the future.

I know we want to add as many young talent as possible but I believe we are getting loaded up now if they all reach their potential. We can't keep them in the VFL waiting for injuries.

These guys are almost guaranteed to be part of our side for the next few years:

Walker
Russell
Murphy
Kennedy
Simpson
Whitnall
Blackwell
Fisher
Betts
Bower
Stevens
Fevola
Scotland
Waite
Thornton
Bentick

These guys may be part of our side but haven't made it or have some deficiencies to work on:

S O'hAilpin
Hartlett
Houlihan
Wiggins
Raso
Carrazzo
Edwards
Jackson
Flint
A O'hAilpin

Plus we have 2 top 20 picks this year to bring in. There may come a time when we are leaving very good players in the VFL and they start looking elsewhere.

I think we need to start considering we have the makings of a very good side save for a decent ruckman. The fact that we are where we are is more a reflection of the experience of the side rather than a lack of talent IMO. We can tend to get carried away chasing draft picks. If we were in round 22 with the spoon wrapped up and the top two draft picks staring us in the face, well that may be a different story. It's not. A pick at 18 probably gives us a 50/50 chance of reaping very good rewards. If finishing the season full of confidence helps our guys to get a lease on life, focus on the preseason and bond even more, then it might be worth losing that 50/50 chance. No doubt people will look at who gets picked up with that pick if we don't get it and they will remind us if it is successful. No saying we would have picked that player ourselves though.

I'll place my faith in the players and the club .. and the football gods and accept whatever comes our way.

We have to remember that this isn't junk time in a match we have already lost. Sure the season is gone but our opposition in these matches are out to win. If we beat them, then we do so on our own merits and we show what we are capable of. That will get me through the offseason, as will Gibbs, Hansen or Gumbleton.

exactly right, we will take our medicine and move on, whatever happens.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

F&^w#% No !!!!

 

[Jimthegreat]

Happy to tank the last couple last year for Marc Murphy, but for the sake of a second round pick I think this year I'd prefer to win. Players will learn alot more being a part of a winning team and the corresponding benefits, both development and confidence-wise. One player from the second round is not likely to take us from 15th to premiers and picks in that round are basically 50-50 anyway. Besides, we must be sick of losing by now. Listening to talk-back radio today, people are starting to realise we have alot more talent in our line-up than they thought, and I'm not talking just Carlton supporters. I'm talking both the "experts" and talkback callers. A couple of wins will send us into the pre-season with confidence, especially with the changes coming into the club. Smorgon's interview was very interesting on the ABC Saturday. Refused point-blank to guarantee the coach's position next year, and, something which did surprise me no end, was that the review of coaches seemed to be generated by the AFL themselves.

 

[juzza316]

Didn't we win 4.5 games last year, thus putting us over the criteria of a maximum of 4 wins per year over 2 years therefore voiding a priority pick?
Can someone clarify?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Cast your minds back to 1998. After 9 rounds we were sitting on 1 & 8. We got some momentum going in the second half of the season. We were never going to make the finals. 12 months later, young players like Whitnall, Hamill, Murphy, Beaumont & Massie propelled us to a GF (along with the experienced players on the list). I am not suggesting we will make the GF next year, or even the finals for that matter, but what would 3 or 4 wins in a row mean to our young kids at the end of the season. Belief. That's what it would mean. Belief that they could match it with some of the better sides in the competition (ie Melbourne, Collingwood, the Weagles, even Sydney) and belief that they are better than the Hawks, the Tigers, the Bombers. Part of moving up the ladder will be knowing that when they play some of the lesser sides, they can beat them. Therefore we must beat Hawthorn and Richmond and hopefully Collingwood. It will be worth much more than one pick in the draft.

Exactly.....well said!

 

[Thrawn]

Win. It's not like we'll fail miserably at picking up good kids. The PP is not going to be the difference between finals success and failure. The current crop need to experience what winning is like, and that is far more beneficial for our development.

We'll get a high draft pick anyway, and since apparently it's a strong draft, there will be plenty of gems anyway.

Honestly, **** the PP if it means we have to win the spoon this year.

 

[stokesy]

The way I felt Saturday, and the way I am feeling at the moment - I want to win.

We can realistically win 3 games in a row, then we will face Collingwood with the boys probably playing in front of 70,000. We then could win 4 in a row.

The kids we have at the moment, are fantastic. Throw in a couple more - not priority picks - and we still have one hell of a bright future.

Win, Win, Win.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Didn't we win 4.5 games last year, thus putting us over the criteria of a maximum of 4 wins per year over 2 years therefore voiding a priority pick?
Can someone clarify?

Yes and no. It voids our chance to get a priority pick before round 1 in the draft. If we finish with 16 points or less we get an extra pick before round 2.

 

[XXX KINGS]

I think all you have to look at is the core group of players from the Sydney 2005 premiership side and what their respective draft positions were. A champion team will always beat a team of champions. All we need is our young guys to gel together and play for each other, then the results will come. Purposely losing games from here so that we can be given an extra second round draft pick is the quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Last year it was a little different in the fact that it was the difference between pick 1 and 4 or just pick 5. This year we are talking about a pick between 18-20 which is generally more or less speculative any way.

We have been **** for five years now, and slowly have been turning over the list introducing new talent. This year we'll get another top three pick regardless of whether we win another game. The line has to be drawn eventually, we can't keep on losing in the hope that we get an 'extra' second round draft pick. FFS, there is being optimistic, then there is being realistic and then there is being stupid.

 

[Andyt30]

if the Blues wanted to go for 1 or 2 draft they would have thrown the game on Saturday their more wants wins if they loose they get **** put on em for loosing so blues win win win i think the blues know they won so their now going for wins not picks the way the hawks been playing The Blues got 50/50 to smash em to be 4/12th Wins and be 2 pts behind the hawks

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think all you have to look at is the core group of players from the Sydney 2005 premiership side and what their respective draft positions were. A champion team will always beat a team of champions. All we need is our young guys to gel together and play for each other, then the results will come. Purposely losing games from here so that we can be given an extra second round draft pick is the quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Last year it was a little different in the fact that it was the difference between pick 1 and 4 or just pick 5. This year we are talking about a pick between 18-20 which is generally more or less speculative any way.

We have been **** for five years now, and slowly have been turning over the list introducing new talent. This year we'll get another top three pick regardless of whether we win another game. The line has to be drawn eventually, we can't keep on losing in the hope that we get an 'extra' second round draft pick. FFS, there is being optimistic, then there is being realistic and then there is being stupid.

Great post.

Particularly like the Sydney analogy. We have seen players talking about this win and how frustrating losing has been. How they come to training and try to remain upbeat and stick together. Nothing fractures a side like losing consistently and it may well be that team unity is finally an asset that we have going for us. We have always had teams full of champions ... I'm not adverse to having a champion team this time around.

 

[Lance]

We can realistically win 3 games in a row, then we will face Collingwood with the boys probably playing in front of 70,000. We then could win 4 in a row.



Wouldn't it be fantastic to beat Collingwood, (by a point will do) and stuff up their top 4 chance, and make it as difficult as possible to have a successful finals campaign.

 

[celtic_pride]

Fuffle.
Sick of losing.
Would also certainly want the Bombers to win the spoon as well.
It's no guarntee that you would get a good player at pick 17 anyway.

 

[Andyt30]

more like ones over 50+ won;t be very good players their the left overs

so please blues no more looses for the remaining 4 games , we could finish on 30 pts 7 1/2 wins

 

[BlueWorld]

These guys are almost guaranteed to be part of our side for the next few years:

Walker
Murphy
Simpson
Whitnall
Fisher
Betts
Stevens
Fevola
Scotland
Waite
Thornton
Houlihan

These guys may be part of our side but haven't made it or have some deficiencies to work on:

Russell
Kennedy
Blackwell
Bower (yet to play a senior game)
Bentick
S O'hAilpin
Hartlett
Wiggins
Raso
Carrazzo
Edwards
Jackson
Flint
A O'hAilpin

May be more like it. Not saying they won't make it but those in bold have only played a limited number of games and have a little way to go before proving themselves at this stage. Bentick probably still has some deficiencies to work on- pace, kicking, which are extremely important these days.

 

[celtic_pride]

I really really like the look of Bower. Won't get a game this year (a lot to do with injuries) but he is a goer and will get senior footy next year.

 

[celtic_pride]

Also assuming the ladder stays the way it is come draft time we'll be adding Gumby so that's another building block for the future.
Even if we finish last, I still think that we should take Gumby over Gibbs. Gibbs percieved lack of pace is a worry.

 

[audas]

Originally Posted by The Old Dark Navy's
These guys are almost guaranteed to be part of our side for the next few years:

Walker
Murphy
Simpson
Whitnall
Fisher
Betts
Stevens
Fevola
Scotland
Waite
Thornton
Houlihan

These guys may be part of our side but haven't made it or have some deficiencies to work on:

Russell
Kennedy
Blackwell
Bower (yet to play a senior game)
Bentick
S O'hAilpin
Hartlett
Wiggins
Raso
Carrazzo
Edwards
Jackson
Flint
A O'hAilpin

Smith ??


what about a champion team of champions XXXkings, who can they beat, everyone for three or four years maybe. I'd rather see carlton get the picks and come out and win three (or four) flags in a row.....ala brisbane. NOW THAT would be compensation for the past 5 years. Oh,.... the fun id have on Big footy.

Lets face it if its a super draft then first few are going to be super picks as well. tanking this year is worth more than any other year. All that pain for no long term gain ?