Drafting- How Could it go so Wrong?

[bus24]

Wouldn't mind Matty Stokes right at the minute. Bartram is reasonable as well.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I really like Bartram - he impressed me playing off the half back line for Melbourne last year.

 

[conVINCEd]

Geez, Stokes would be nice in our forward line right now.

Bartram is a talent, and Patfull's solid, but really there wasn't much in the cupboard at all late in that draft.

 

[bus24]

Geez, Stokes would be nice in our forward line right now.

I'm a bit surprised we didn't draft him to be honest. Right under our noses too.

 

[macca23]

I'm a bit surprised we didn't draft him to be honest. Right under our noses too.

His talent was never in doubt but I believe he was considered to be too small by most clubs - I think the Crows also subscribed to that theory.

Good little footballer.

 

[bus24]

His talent was never in doubt but I believe he was considered to be too small by most clubs - I think the Crows also subscribed to that theory.

Good little footballer.

The same reason Daniel Kerr fell to Pick 18 wasn't it?

I don't know whether it's a great theory to be subscribing to.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The same reason Daniel Kerr fell to Pick 18 wasn't it?

I don't know whether it's a great theory to be subscribing to.

Nope!

Kerr is taller than Stokes and is also quicker. Kerr is 178. Stokes was measure at 173 cm at WWT and his size was definetly why he was overlooked in something like 3 draft.

His footballing ability was there for all to see but all clubs thought he was too short and not quick enough for a player of his height. Geelong obviously changed their mind after a couple of years and gave him a go.

Kerr..... well, there have been a lot of rumours/accusations that WC were hiding him as he played school footy during the year and was picked @ 18 by WC. Whether or not thats true, no one really knows but one this is for sure, he was a bit of an unknown in his draft year. Similar to Andrew McKie who virtually played all of his year for Sacred Heart.

 

[CrowHop]

For a late third rounder, weak draft etc etc i think it's acceptable that we admit a mistake, cut our losses and move on. Buggering up first rounders however ....

The likes of Gallman and possibly Turner is probably already ahead of him in terms of development (both playing SANFL league) and they could only make it to our rookie list. That would indicate we made the right decision in freeing up his position on the main list.

Gibson was a weird decision, he's a big guy with potential but had some injury problems. On the surface looked a bit odd to cut him so early, but perhaps there were other issues we weren't aware of. The fact that he wasn't rookied by us or anyone else in the last draft seems to suggest something.

 

[Crow-mo]

geez what are the odds on a 3rd/4th round pick in a very weak draft?

you got to take someone, and my granny didn't nominate.

 

[The Crows Truth]

We all make mistakes, and it’s clear recruiters certainly make their fair share. Their job is to search the nation to find the best talents for their football club but sometimes it can all go so wrong.

In the 2005 AFL Draft the Crows took Alan Obst with their 3rd round selection (48th overall). Less than 12 months after drafting the 19 year old, 192cm defender, Obst found himself delisted by the Crows. It is extremely uncommon for a club to delist a teenager after only one year in the system, and even more so for someone who doesn’t have any behavioral issues.

What I’m asking is how could the club draft a young tall with the hope of them developing into a KPP and suddenly dump them less than a year into their time with the club? We obviously saw certain qualities in him that led us to believe he was good enough to make it as an AFL player, so how then could it all go so wrong in less than 12 months? I’m not implying that it was a mistake to release him, and as a matter of fact he’s still playing SANFL reserves, but I find it odd you can be an AFL hopeful one minute and not on the list the next.

very silly post drummond - any objective informed view would know the crows have done very well OVERALL with their picks in the last few years (ie mid-low draft picks) from memory we have only ever had one top 10 and ayres insisted on the headcase

 

[Stiffy_18]

very silly post drummond - any objective informed view would know the crows have done very well OVERALL with their picks in the last few years (ie mid-low draft picks) from memory we have only ever had one top 10 and ayres insisted on the headcase

Well 2 top 10.

2000 Pick 7: Angwin
2004 Pick 8: John Meesen

 

[Drummond]

very silly post drummond - any objective informed view would know the crows have done very well OVERALL with their picks in the last few years (ie mid-low draft picks) from memory we have only ever had one top 10 and ayres insisted on the headcase

I am not saying our recruiting in recent years has been bad, far from it, I’m just pointing out a case which seems rather odd.

 

[Vader]

Looking at it I see a distinct jump in quality of drafting overall since Craigy took over. Whether it's because he brought in some new staff to help out, had a bigger influence himself, or pure coincidence, there is definitely an improvement imo. I cop it a lot for pumping the kids up but had you spoken to me prior to Craig's reign you wouldn't have thought it was the same person; I couldn't see a sizeable crop of highly talented players coming through like I do now. I definitely think we are better set for the future now in terms of personnel than when Ayers was in charge.

That's because there weren't any talented youngsters on our list.

At the time when Craig took over, Fungus Watts was the only teenager on our list.

Today (midway through the season), we have three - with another 7 players who are yet to celebrate their 21st birthdays.

It is truly remarkable how well Neil Craig had turned around our list - from one which was extremely top heavy, with almost no youth (and almost every player below 25yo being a dud) to the current list which looks set to provide us with an exciting future. Sure, we're still top-heavy - but there is some class in the youth which was uniformly missing during the Ayres era.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Well 2 top 10.

2000 Pick 7: Angwin
2004 Pick 8: John Meesen

Nothing can be worse than these 1st round howlers:

Pick #4 - Luke Livingston
Pick #6 - Muray Vance
Pick #7 - Kris Massie
Pick #15 - Trent Sporn

 

[NikkiNoo]

That's because there weren't any talented youngsters on our list.

At the time when Craig took over, Fungus Watts was the only teenager on our list.

Today (midway through the season), we have three - with another 7 players who are yet to celebrate their 21st birthdays.

It is truly remarkable how well Neil Craig had turned around our list - from one which was extremely top heavy, with almost no youth (and almost every player below 25yo being a dud) to the current list which looks set to provide us with an exciting future. Sure, we're still top-heavy - but there is some class in the youth which was uniformly missing during the Ayres era.

Vader - you are forgetting at least Rutten, Bock, Mattner and Johncock? c'mon that is a complete disservice to the recruiting during that period. It's that we never really saw those players as that was not the Ayres' model.

 

[Vader]

Vader - you are forgetting at least Rutten, Bock, Mattner and Johncock? c'mon that is a complete disservice to the recruiting during that period. It's that we never really saw those players as that was not the Ayres' model.

I'm not forgetting them, it's just that the good ones were so vastly outweighed by the dead wood. 2007 is likely to be the first time (after three drafts) where the decisions on who to cut will not be inherently obvious to all and sundry. It has taken him 3 whole years to cull the dead wood which Ayres had allowed to build up on our lists.

Consider the following players who were on drafted during the Ayres reign of terror, many of whom were still on our lists by the time NC took office (mid-2004):
Laurence Angwin
Michael Handby
Matthew Smith
Hayden Skipworth (better than most of the others on this list, but was never going to have a long term AFL career)
Jacob Schuback
Ben Finnin
James Begley
Josh Krueger
Luke Jericho

Plus the likes of:
Chris Ladson
Brodie Atkinson
Daniel Schell
Ronnie Burns (good player for Geelong, offered nothing to Adelaide)

For what it's worth, Rutten, Bock, Mattner and Johncock had all turned 21 before NC took power. Luke Jericho is the only player, who was on our list at the time (and remains on our list), who was aged 20 years or younger at the time NC took over. Fungus is the only other player, who was on our list at the time - but is now on another team's list - who was aged 20 years or younger at the time. That's a total of two under 21 in total.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

geez what are the odds on a 3rd/4th round pick in a very weak draft?

you got to take someone, and my granny didn't nominate.

It's not strange that a 3rd round pick didn't make it, but rather that he was dumped afer 12 months. Usually the club will persist with a younger player for at least a 2nd year, but I gather in this case they didn't like what they were seeing & saw no point. Given our drafting last year, I have no compaints.

 

[Cap]

I would say my biggest disappointment with the crows recruiting

and to be honest i'm not bagging them because they have done a great job with what they have had to work with IMHO

but i really wish we could just pick-up a guy who walks into the team and delivers - a little bit like VB but maybe with more flare

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Douglas?

 

[Cap]

Douglas?

he really hasn't done that much has he ?

more of the Knights type thing - except without the 2 year build up

 

[Drummond]

I would say my biggest disappointment with the crows recruiting

and to be honest i'm not bagging them because they have done a great job with what they have had to work with IMHO

but i really wish we could just pick-up a guy who walks into the team and delivers - a little bit like VB but maybe with more flare

Agreed. Almost every other team has a first year recruit that plays 10+ games and just looks the goods. Chances are not one of our 2006 draftees will make their debut this year and while that’s no big deal, it’s a little disappointing. We rarely have a first year player burst onto the scene.

 

[tribey]

I'm not forgetting them, it's just that the good ones were so vastly outweighed by the dead wood. 2007 is likely to be the first time (after three drafts) where the decisions on who to cut will not be inherently obvious to all and sundry. It has taken him 3 whole years to cull the dead wood which Ayres had allowed to build up on our lists.

Consider the following players who were on drafted during the Ayres reign of terror, many of whom were still on our lists by the time NC took office (mid-2004):
Laurence Angwin
Michael Handby
Matthew Smith
Hayden Skipworth (better than most of the others on this list, but was never going to have a long term AFL career)
Jacob Schuback
Ben Finnin
James Begley
Josh Krueger
Luke Jericho

Plus the likes of:
Chris Ladson
Brodie Atkinson
Daniel Schell
Ronnie Burns (good player for Geelong, offered nothing to Adelaide)

For what it's worth, Rutten, Bock, Mattner and Johncock had all turned 21 before NC took power. Luke Jericho is the only player, who was on our list at the time (and remains on our list), who was aged 20 years or younger at the time NC took over. Fungus is the only other player, who was on our list at the time - but is now on another team's list - who was aged 20 years or younger at the time. That's a total of two under 21 in total.

Wish we'd taken his younger brother, Rick.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Agreed. Almost every other team has a first year recruit that plays 10+ games and just looks the goods. Chances are not one of our 2006 draftees will make their debut this year and while that’s no big deal, it’s a little disappointing. We rarely have a first year player burst onto the scene.

Name me a West Coast player that has done this Drummond, or Sydney for that matter? Those teams are where on the ladder?

 

[Drummond]

Name me a West Coast player that has done this Drummond, or Sydney for that matter? Those teams are where on the ladder?

18 year old KPP Mitchell Brown. Played round 1 against the Swans and had 14 possessions and 7 marks. Has played the three games but will finish the season with 10+ now than Hansen is injured.

And well yes the Swans don't believe in playing their draftees a few years like the Crows. They never seem to suffer any injuries which doesn’t give the rookies much of a chance though.

 

[RoosterLad]

Name me a West Coast player that has done this Drummond, or Sydney for that matter? Those teams are where on the ladder?

A lot of the top teams rarely blood their new draftees early, they are already pretty strong so don't really feel the need plus there is rarely any room for them unless they get a bad run with injuries. Generally the shithouse Vic teams play their new boys as soon as possible. It says something about the strength of our club I think.