Drawing a line with home intruders and self defence

Herne Hill Hammer

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If the increase in agitation from being restrained led to a heart attack you might be in trouble. The second scenario you state correctly trouble. Only police can get away with that in the name of restraint (have seen coroner cases clear police where restraint arguably excessive as it was a fluid emergency situation)
It is for the reasons of asphyxia that in the prisons, you aren't allowed to cuff someone's hands behind their back, they have to be done in front (so it's easier for them to bash you)
 

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Craven Morehead

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Oh FFS tell the cop to stop being such a killjoy. The power goes to their head doesn't it. You did the right thing.

Even if the junkie had a cardiac arrest, you just tell the copper to write 'self defense' in his report.
The thing in a small country town is that all witnesses will be available.
They are not just going to dissolve into suburbia. This is a town of less than 500 people.
( I had a another chat with the copper today about this).
I now understand his point.
 

Aware

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This is an old fashioned thing called "common sense".
I dont see much of that in modern day Horestraylia these days. How many sexes are there now? Seems we are spoilt for choice. :eek:

Lot of garbage being sprouted here , lets at least get the story straight as it has been reported. Here it is...

Slater is found entering BB's house at some early hour of the morning. His intention appears to be theft, as he makes off with BB's wife's handbag. BB and two accomplices chase Slater for 300 or so metres to retrieve the stolen goods, and to perform a citizens arrest by holding him until Police arrive. In the course of doing that, BB was bitten by Slater, and ended up with a large contusion on his face. Slater was struggling violently to escape. BB applied a choke hold at some stage. Ambulance finally arrived and took Slater to hospital where he died.

Points of interest
  1. Slater was a large and obese and unfit.
  2. there was high meth levels found in his body
  3. His neck was not broken.
  4. Slater had been convicted of rape of a 16 yo after she answered the door, and he forced his way into her house. His DNA on a vaginal swab proved this offence.
  5. Slater had also been convicted of numerous other offences, theft, burglary, etc. Apparently some of these convictions were quashed because a judges rulings were over turned on appeal.
My opinion.

Aboriginals are prone to heart disease,... combine that with the meth use causing elevated blood pressure and he would easily have died under all the exertion and adrenalin also coursing through his overweight body as he tried to escape BB. I am reasonably certain this will be found to be the cause of death.

Everyone is allowed under Common Law to effect a citizens arrest. Reasonable force must be used. It is always reasonable to meet a force with equal force. It is not reasonable to kill someone unless they threaten your life. The notion that only Police can detain offenders is false. It is a Common Law right.

Provocation is an important tenet of law. It mitigates many circumstances. Slater provoked BB by resisting arrest and causing him harm.

It will be impossible to convict BB of murder. Manslaughter will be a stretch, but if so there will be no jail time, just a bond., I very much doubt he will be convicted of anything becuase this is a scenario where the court of public opinion , ie a juror's prejudice, will prevail. No jury is going to convict him, because scumbags who trespass, rape, and steal are not condoned by the white community. Of course the deceased's mother would like is to believe her son was a good boy. A nice little rapist. Remember why John Howards intervention was necessary.

So then why is the case being brought to court you ask? Well, the very same reason the Gable Tostee case was brought. The DPP has a quota to meet to justify his existence, so if there is nothing much else on the agenda, they will make a case out of you if they think there is half a chance. Its all about keeping the "wheels of justice" turning. Police, media, prisons, judges, magistrates, court infrastructure, the whole circus needs a reason to exist so all the players can take home some pay. Too bad if they decide to have you for breakfast!

When Tostee was exonerated, notable Sydney criminal lawyer Chris Murphy tweeted "it was always going to be the only result. Should never have been charged in the first place."

The BB case is yet another gay pantomime that is underway so we can have a spectacle, and also so that some silks can get their names mentioned in the papers. What a load of bollocks.

It is coming up to the two year mark so this case should be underway in the near future.
 

Tayl0r

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Nah. If you have another option you should take that before continuing the interaction by following someone.

You have a right to protect your property but the courts have a duty to determine whether the actions above that were fair and measured considering someone died from them.
 

Ron The Bear

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After the incident the local copper asked for a meeting with myself and my mate.
He gave us the biggest spray and said that if that kid had a heart attack etc he would have been forced to charge us with manslaughter, even though we were doing the right thing.
His very, very stern advice was to let the shitbag do his thing until the cops turn up.
Not sure what the law is in other states, but in Victoria:

The Crimes Act 1958 authorises citizen’s arrest whereby any person may:
  • arrest and deliver to the police any person found committing an offence provided they believe on reasonable grounds that the arrest is necessary to:
    • preserve ‘public order’
    • prevent an offence starting, continuing or repeating
    • protect an individual’s safety or welfare.
Section 462A of the Crimes Act 1958 authorises the use of such force not disproportionate to the objective as a person believes is reasonable grounds to be necessary to:
  • prevent the commission, continuance or completion of an indictable offence; or
  • lawfully arrest a person committing or suspected or committing any offence.
https://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/principals/spag/governance/Pages/citizensarrest.aspx
 
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