Rumour Eagles to keep Mitchell

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

ummmmmmm

it’s not slavery if you get the decision to sign it genius

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

 

[Doashuey]

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

So anybody who is held to a legally binding contract that they signed of their own free will but decides afterwards they dont like it is a slave?
There you go- learn something new every day.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

So anybody who is held to a legally binding contract that they signed of their own free will but decides afterwards they dont like it is a slave?
There you go- learn something new every day.

It's a basic lesson but yeah. You cant force anyone to turn up to work and do their job. You can not pay them.
A contact between two companies, say a labour hire company, could have those conditions not specific to an individual. The binding of a person forcibly to an employer is definitely not on.
The players can choose not to play at any time. In their case it would then lead to restrictions on where they could play, depending on the circumstances they may well challenge it in court successfully. Clubs and players in similar situations tend to agree on illness as the cause, because it suits everyone.

 

[Doashuey]

It's a basic lesson but yeah. You cant force anyone to turn up to work and do their job. You can not pay them.
A contact between two companies, say a labour hire company, could have those conditions not specific to an individual. The binding of a person forcibly to an employer is definitely not on.
The players can choose not to play at any time. In their case it would then lead to restrictions on where they could play, depending on the circumstances they may well challenge it in court successfully. Clubs and players in similar situations tend to agree on illness as the cause, because it suits everyone.

Ok so isn't that the same in this case? WC cant force Mitch to turn up and do his job but they can apply sanctions which will make it difficult for him. They probably have a lot less power to do so than they would if it was a player contract unless they do a deal with the AFL for him to see out his contract either with the club or in exile from holding a position at another club. Again, court procedings may be used to overrule. By doing this he is not enslaved as you earlier said. Sure his options might be shitty ones but it is still his choice.
In any case having a disgruntled employee working for you who doesn't want to be there is far from ideal and I would imagine WC wouldnt want to be in this situation. If he wants to go and WC cant set up a satisfactory arrangement to have him work his contract out while living in Melbourne then let him go but they have a right to be pissed at him.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Ok so isn't that the same in this case? WC cant force Mitch to turn up and do his job but they can apply sanctions which will make it difficult for him. They probably have a lot less power to do so than they would if it was a player contract unless they do a deal with the AFL for him to see out his contract either with the club or in exile from holding a position at another club. Again, court procedings may be used to overrule. By doing this he is not enslaved as you earlier said. Sure his options might be shitty ones but it is still his choice.
In any case having a disgruntled employee working for you who doesn't want to be there is far from ideal and I would imagine WC wouldnt want to be in this situation. If he wants to go and WC cant set up a satisfactory arrangement to have him work his contract out while living in Melbourne then let him go but they have a right to be pissed at him.

It's just the notion he can be forced to complete a contract that I snort at in derision. It's the discussion about him being forced to pay money that I was responding to. The notion of slavery irbobded labour is abhorrent to any civilised person.

I doubt anyone knows what's been said in private. The club has invested in him and depending on the circumstances may well be justifiably pissed.

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

Brad Lloyd the Freo List GM has been based out of Melbourne. Not sure how effective that is though when the rest of the leadership team is on the other side of a country in a different time zone.

I heard him interviewed about this when he was still in the Freo job, he said it was not uncommon for all clubs to have their main List GM/Head of recruitment based in Victoria due to the fact that year on year roughly 60% of the players drafted are from Vic Metro / Country.

 

[Rod Stroker]

I heard him interviewed about this when he was still in the Freo job, he said it was not uncommon for all clubs to have their main List GM/Head of recruitment based in Victoria due to the fact that year on year roughly 60% of the players drafted are from Vic Metro / Country.

What do you mean when he was still in the Freo job? Is he not still their List GM / Recruitment boss?

 

[Gralin]

Clubs can move on from coaches whenever they want

Add to that if my wife and family moved interstate for my career and two years later they asked me to move back for them I'd be a pretty shit husband and father to say no.

If Sam is moving back for family reasons fair play, it's a job, West Coast don't own him, hell they could have decided to cut him at the end of the year and everyone would just shrug and say that's footy, they'd negotiate the terms on the contract and move on.

Employees have rights in this country last I checked

 

[Benji85]

West Coast want to keep Mitchell for the remainder of his contract (2 more years) they have offered him him a role based out of Melbourne in the past couple of days so he can still be home with his family.

I mean who ever takes him has to compensate WC out of their own soft cap I think (happy to be corrected there). So I don't think any club would be moving him into some dinky lower coaching position if they have to pay doubles

Maybe WC would throw him into a scouting/recruiting role over there

 

[HungLong]

I hope we call his bluff and make him work for us out of Melbourne for the next two years.
After all, it's just homesickness. Win-win, right?

 

[threesixpio]

Tell him he's got 2 options:

1. Pay out rest of his contract so he's out of pocket probably a million or more
2. Stay and complete his contract

None of this live in Melbourne crap which will affect the teams performance

News flash - the abolition of slavery in the Western world happened yonks ago.

At least, it has in the Eastern states

 

[Scotland]

If Sam is moving back for family reasons fair play, it's a job, West Coast don't own him, hell they could have decided to cut him at the end of the year and everyone would just shrug and say that's footy, they'd negotiate the terms on the contract and move on.

Given he signed a 4 year contract if we axed him at the end of this year wouldn't we be obliged to pay him the final two years?

I'm not really sure how AFL coaching contracts work. I don't have a fixed term contract at my job, just pretty standard employment terms. If I want to quit, I give notice. If they want me gone they need to engineer a redundancy or find me in breach of something, probably the posting on BigFooty at work one. AFL players sign contracts they can't just bail on. You can't sign a 5 year contract with Carlton then after a year decide you want to quit then go and play for Collingwood. The system doesn't allow that. Coaches aren't under the same rules AFAIK but are still typically signed up to fixed term contracts. If as a coach you can sign a 2/3/4/whatever year deal with a club and then bail without consequence but be paid out if you are sacked that seems lopsided.

Family reasons appears completely legitimate and he hasn't thrown his toys out of the cot and walked out on his duties in Perth a month out from finals. The problem in AFL circles is that 'family reasons' has been used 1,000 times and the moment he signs with a Melbourne club there will be speculation that it was all done and dusted 6 months ago etc.

An interesting tangent is what is going on in the NRL. I don't follow the comp but I watch Fox Sports News so observe the goings on. Penrith sacked their guy (in 5th leading into finals) and want Cleary who coaches Wests Tigers, at least in part due to Cleary's son being a young gun at Penrith. Will be interesting to see what Clear and Wests Tigers have to say. What motivation do Wests have to let their guy bail on his contract to join a rival club?

 

[Scotland]

Tell him he's got 2 options:

1. Pay out rest of his contract so he's out of pocket probably a million or more
2. Stay and complete his contract

None of this live in Melbourne crap which will affect the teams performance

I really don't think we can enforce an assistant coach to pay out his own contract.

If we were petty we would push to enforce that he has two years remaining and cannot work for another AFL club until that period is complete (ie treat him as a player a la GWS with Cam McCarthy), or somehow (probably highly against AFL rules) make his new employer pay out the contract.

But neither of those things will occur. He'll either stay on in a Melbourne based role or we will grant him a release from his contract. Those are the only two outcomes on the table.

 

[Gralin]

Given he signed a 4 year contract if we axed him at the end of this year wouldn't we be obliged to pay him the final two years?

I'm not really sure how AFL coaching contracts work. I don't have a fixed term contract at my job, just pretty standard employment terms. If I want to quit, I give notice. If they want me gone they need to engineer a redundancy or find me in breach of something, probably the posting on BigFooty at work one. AFL players sign contracts they can't just bail on. You can't sign a 5 year contract with Carlton then after a year decide you want to quit then go and play for Collingwood. The system doesn't allow that. Coaches aren't under the same rules AFAIK but are still typically signed up to fixed term contracts. If as a coach you can sign a 2/3/4/whatever year deal with a club and then bail without consequence but be paid out if you are sacked that seems lopsided.

Family reasons appears completely legitimate and he hasn't thrown his toys out of the cot and walked out on his duties in Perth a month out from finals. The problem in AFL circles is that 'family reasons' has been used 1,000 times and the moment he signs with a Melbourne club there will be speculation that it was all done and dusted 6 months ago etc.

An interesting tangent is what is going on in the NRL. I don't follow the comp but I watch Fox Sports News so observe the goings on. Penrith sacked their guy (in 5th leading into finals) and want Cleary who coaches Wests Tigers, at least in part due to Cleary's son being a young gun at Penrith. Will be interesting to see what Clear and Wests Tigers have to say. What motivation do Wests have to let their guy bail on his contract to join a rival club?

Players can walk out they just can't go to the opposition, Cam McCarthy sat out the year rather than play for GWS until his contract was up
We had a young SA boy retire and go back to play footy in SA, not on an AFL list so no issue there.

My point was that if West Coast cut him nobody would have a problem with it but because he wants to leave mid contract people are up in arms

Now maybe WC can stop him coaching at another AFL club as an assistant but that is probably about all they can do. They can't force him to keep working for them and I'm sure financially he doesn't need the money. Will be interesting to see what happens

 

[Winky]

News flash - the abolition of slavery in the Western world happened yonks ago.

At least, it has in the Eastern states

Pointless using slaves in the eastern states as nobody there knows how to work anyway

 

[Winky]

Players can walk out they just can't go to the opposition, Cam McCarthy sat out the year rather than play for GWS until his contract was up
We had a young SA boy retire and go back to play footy in SA, not on an AFL list so no issue there.

My point was that if West Coast cut him nobody would have a problem with it but because he wants to leave mid contract people are up in arms

Now maybe WC can stop him coaching at another AFL club as an assistant but that is probably about all they can do. They can't force him to keep working for them and I'm sure financially he doesn't need the money. Will be interesting to see what happens

If WC cut him there would be financial problems for them probably amounting to paying out remainder of the contract. Mitchell leaving would not cost him anything other than what may have been outlaid in such things as rental bond etc. Much as he has been a valuable asset, if he has family problems he needs to deal with, just let him go. You don't want coaches with a grudge to be working for you and you want to retain a rep as a fair place to work.

 

[Hinkley29]

Complete the contract then. Don't sign the contract if you aren't willing to fulfill it

I assume then that WC have no interest in poaching Tim Kelly at the end of this season?

 

[Gralin]

If WC cut him there would be financial problems for them probably amounting to paying out remainder of the contract. Mitchell leaving would not cost him anything other than what may have been outlaid in such things as rental bond etc. Much as he has been a valuable asset, if he has family problems he needs to deal with, just let him go. You don't want coaches with a grudge to be working for you and you want to retain a rep as a fair place to work.

whether the coach wants to go or the club wants the coach to go there is always going to be a negotiation between parties on terms, it will be interesting to see whether the issue of compensation from the club he lands at becomes part of the negotiations

 

[Scotland]

Players can walk out they just can't go to the opposition, Cam McCarthy sat out the year rather than play for GWS until his contract was up
We had a young SA boy retire and go back to play footy in SA, not on an AFL list so no issue there.

My point was that if West Coast cut him nobody would have a problem with it but because he wants to leave mid contract people are up in arms

Now maybe WC can stop him coaching at another AFL club as an assistant but that is probably about all they can do. They can't force him to keep working for them and I'm sure financially he doesn't need the money. Will be interesting to see what happens

To be honest I expect it will be painfully dull and boring like most off field moves. We'll investigate potential Melbourne based roles and if that doesn't work out (I don't expect it to) we'll grant him a release and that will be that.

If we cut him we'd have to pay out his contract. It's the only distinction really.

 

[Scotland]

I assume then that WC have no interest in poaching Tim Kelly at the end of this season?

Not sure how that's relevant. Tim Kelly is a contracted Geelong player. If we want to sign him we need to convince him to join the club and satisfy Geelong with a trade. Even if it was the end of 2019 and his initial two year deal was up we'd still need to trade for him or take him with a draft pick. We can't trade Sam Mitchell to another club for a draft pick or another coach.

I reckon Tim Kelly will play for Geelong next year but there is some chance he'll play for us. I bet my bollocks to a barn dance he isn't granted a release from his contract with Geelong to join us for free.

 

[Vyrone Trickery]

Pointless using slaves in the eastern states as nobody there knows how to work anyway

Small-town mentality so typical of certain (minority) WA types. Grow up, kiddo.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

If mitchell doesnt want to work with us thats fine . Dont want anyone that isnt committed to the club . But i dont think he should be allow to get an afl coaching gig (Unless is head coach ) for anyone else for 2 years until his contract is up. Coach in the VFL or go into the media

 

[Mmwce]

I assume then that WC have no interest in poaching Tim Kelly at the end of this season?

Good idea! We can trade Mitchell for T Kelly

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Agree. No idea why this had to come out now. It's a distraction the Eagles could do without.

It's a conspiracy by the Victorian media and AFL to keep the cup in Victoria.

 

[Isaba]

If mitchell doesnt want to work with us thats fine . Dont want anyone that isnt committed to the club . But i dont think he should be allow to get an afl coaching gig (Unless is head coach ) for anyone else for 2 years until his contract is up. Coach in the VFL or go into the media

Would you apply that logic retrospectively in the context of Simpson leaving Hawthorn to coach West Coast?