Umpiring Eleni Glouftsis should not be umpiring AFL

[Zevon]

A reminder from your friendly neighbourhood moderator that replies to this thread are now on a very tight leash and should be kept to discussion about Eleni’s umpiring abilities only.

Several posts stating or suggesting that Eleni Glouftsis shouldn’t be umpiring solely because she is female have already been removed. Any further posts saying crap like “women are far too emotional to be umpires”, “she’s only umpiring because wokeness is taking over the AFL” etc etc will be removed and infractions given.

You can call us woke, white knights, politically correct or virtue signallers all you want, but the simple fact is that we don’t stand for misogyny here. If that’s not cool with you then you know where the door is.

Thanks, Zev

 

[marcus1232]

Some points

Umpires are in short supply at all levels. At lower levels numbers are at crisis levels.

If the base is struggling then it stands to reason that standard up the chain must suffer

We need women umpires

The move to four umpires partially allows for this

The Bounce is a relic, it‘s no longer relevant, it’s hard enough throwing it up straight and getting out of the way - try it some time

It is accepted that the game is one if not the hardest to umpire / referee in the world. So much of it is subjective dependant upon the situation - few of which are ever the same. Umpires will and do make mistakes. Getting the best decision makers involved is the key.

Eleni isn’t the problem.

Been involved in umpiring my whole life

Eleni isnt the issue

Money is 100%

A goal umpire for a senior domestic match makes maybe 70-75 dollars.
To stand there and cop all the abuse they do.
A Senior Field umpire 150-200 game
A boundary maybe 80-100

It isnt enough money to keep people interested in umpiring.
But hey the higher ups say money isnt the issue
But I ask former umpires who said if they paid more I would umpire

 

[western royboy]

Been involved in umpiring my whole life

Eleni isnt the issue

Money is 100%

A goal umpire for a senior domestic match makes maybe 70-75 dollars.
To stand there and cop all the abuse they do.
A Senior Field umpire 150-200 game
A boundary maybe 80-100

It isnt enough money to keep people interested in umpiring.
But hey the higher ups say money isnt the issue
But I ask former umpires who said if they paid more I would umpire

Yet go to a MOU negotiation, which the AFL have conveniently walked away from and all leagues do is whinge about the cost of umpires - yet they can’t get them - there a whole host of reasons, travel etc. Clubs are happy to pay s**t players $500 to play yet baulk at paying umpires

 

[Munich]

Been involved in umpiring my whole life

Eleni isnt the issue

Money is 100%

A goal umpire for a senior domestic match makes maybe 70-75 dollars.
To stand there and cop all the abuse they do.
A Senior Field umpire 150-200 game
A boundary maybe 80-100

It isnt enough money to keep people interested in umpiring.
But hey the higher ups say money isnt the issue
But I ask former umpires who said if they paid more I would umpire

Field umpires are on over 100k per year. And all have time for a "second" job.

What's this $200 per game for - a fuel allowance?

 

[HairyO]

Yet go to a MOU negotiation, which the AFL have conveniently walked away from and all leagues do is whinge about the cost of umpires - yet they can’t get them - there a whole host of reasons, travel etc. Clubs are happy to pay s**t players $500 to play yet baulk at paying umpires

Some former players can make thousands per game in the bush leagues. So clearly there is sometimes money...

 

[western royboy]

Field umpires are on over 100k per year. And all have time for a "second" job.

What's this $200 per game for - a fuel allowance?

It’s what Community Field Umpires get paid as a gross amount for umpiring senior games before admin fees are removed

 

[marcus1232]

Yet go to a MOU negotiation, which the AFL have conveniently walked away from and all leagues do is whinge about the cost of umpires - yet they can’t get them - there a whole host of reasons, travel etc. Clubs are happy to pay s**t players $500 to play yet baulk at paying umpires

Agreed.
And it’s not 500 it’s some players upwards of 2 grand a game for local footballers.

The whole clubs can’t afford to pay the umpires more doesn’t sit with me at all.

 

[Munich]

It’s what Community Field Umpires get paid as a gross amount for umpiring senior games before admin fees are removed

Oh right. I thought you were talking about AFL umpires.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Bouncing the ball is a tiny part of it IMO, if it has to be called back so what, making s**t calls on the other hand….

 

[lordbob]

If the first qtr of freo haw is anything to go by, her decision making is atrocious. Hope this isnt a reflection of her normal decision making.

over rules the central umpire who called correctly touched. Then freo player who took the mark handballs / plays on and they miss the shot, then she calls it back.... its not a free kick, its a mark or not a mark. if its a mark its play on.

Then at the end of the qtr, misses the htb and pays holding the man? wtf, he had the ball and dropped it.

 

[Belnakor]

If the first qtr of freo haw is anything to go by, her decision making is atrocious. Hope this isnt a reflection of her normal decision making.

over rules the central umpire who called correctly touched. Then freo player who took the mark handballs / plays on and they miss the shot, then she calls it back.... its not a free kick, its a mark or not a mark. if its a mark its play on.

Then at the end of the qtr, misses the htb and pays holding the man? wtf, he had the ball and dropped it.

You obviously don’t know the rules. When a mark is called back like that you can’t play on.

 

[Xtreme]

If the first qtr of freo haw is anything to go by, her decision making is atrocious. Hope this isnt a reflection of her normal decision making.

over rules the central umpire who called correctly touched. Then freo player who took the mark handballs / plays on and they miss the shot, then she calls it back.... its not a free kick, its a mark or not a mark. if its a mark its play on.

Then at the end of the qtr, misses the htb and pays holding the man? wtf, he had the ball and dropped it.

Hope she never umpires a grand final, she'd cost a team victory

 

[lordbob]

You obviously don’t know the rules. When a mark is called back like that you can’t play on.

please enlighten me and quote the rule where if you take a mark and its called a mark, then you handball it but miss the shot you get another chance? it happens with free kicks all the time sure.

Also while you are at it, explain why an umpire would override another umpire who calls touched? Why would you ever overrule an umpire who calls touched? Unless you are 100% sure it wasnt touched you should never over rule a touched call. She over ruled the touched call and she was wrong.

 

[McIvor]

If the first qtr of freo haw is anything to go by, her decision making is atrocious. Hope this isnt a reflection of her normal decision making.

over rules the central umpire who called correctly touched. Then freo player who took the mark handballs / plays on and they miss the shot, then she calls it back.... its not a free kick, its a mark or not a mark. if its a mark its play on.

Then at the end of the qtr, misses the htb and pays holding the man? wtf, he had the ball and dropped it.

The amount of howlers she had in the Lions v Freo game were shocking. McCluggage had his head ripped off, supposedly its not high and one of her deliberate OOB when there was a player right there were just shocking.

And then here she is again, getting selected the following week. I still don't understand why her or really any umpiring display isn't up for discussion and simply ignored as if we are mute morons. As a neutral, the umpiring in the Dees v Suns game was shockingly one sided to the Dees to the point you could argue that the umps didnt have $'s on the game. Will it be highlighted by the media - absolutely not b/c apparently no one is mature enough to have such public discussions despite most people thinking it. It really is pathetic this over protection over umpires. Everyone else in the industry is accountable and open to criticism except these precious souls.

IDK what Freo did wrong to get her twice in back to back games.

And anyone who thinks Eleni is fit to umpire AFL let alone my 12 year old junior footy match up here in QLD is kidding themsleves. She has no feel for the game and is completely out of her depth. Worst yet, the umpiring in the VFL Lions v Blues match was just mind boggling

 

[McIvor]

Hope she never umpires a grand final, she'd cost a team victory

Crazy thing is that you know the AFL will - the narrative will be too hard to pass up irrespective of whether its warranted, whcih it won't be if her history is anything to go by,

 

[Crankyhawk]

please enlighten me and quote the rule where if you take a mark and its called a mark, then you handball it but miss the shot you get another chance? it happens with free kicks all the time sure.

Also while you are at it, explain why an umpire would override another umpire who calls touched? Why would you ever overrule an umpire who calls touched? Unless you are 100% sure it wasnt touched you should never over rule a touched call. She over ruled the touched call and she was wrong.

I thought it was because she had called touched initially then the freo player played on. Then IF there is an overrule to call the mark (which is a big call to do) then it is fair to give the player the opportunity to claim mark.

 

[Madas]

I think she has improved
Still not great
Glad to see her out there and I hope it encourages more females and males to give it a go

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Some points

Umpires are in short supply at all levels. At lower levels numbers are at crisis levels.

If the base is struggling then it stands to reason that standard up the chain must suffer

We need women umpires

The move to four umpires partially allows for this

The Bounce is a relic, it‘s no longer relevant, it’s hard enough throwing it up straight and getting out of the way - try it some time

It is accepted that the game is one if not the hardest to umpire / referee in the world. So much of it is subjective dependant upon the situation - few of which are ever the same. Umpires will and do make mistakes. Getting the best decision makers involved is the key.

Eleni isn’t the problem.

Big Footy is symptomatic of the industry in general here. People basically go on the game day boards to whinge about every umpiring decision or non decision that goes against the team they like. Imagine if they did the same for every bad decision or poor skill execution a player made.

You hear it all the time: "oh that number 15 hates Geelong, he kills us every time he has us..." Like maybe they're just blowing off some steam, but that's some seriously delusional BS.

And it goes on. Since I've been a kid (and I'm sure for generations before that) it's been part and parcel of going to local footy and hear the umpires being abused. I don't really see it at the local level at other sports, but it's a constant at local footy.

So, if umpiring quality is an issue at the elite level, what's the solution? I would have thought clubs committing to zero tolerance at grassroots level and higher salaries at the elite and second tier levels are the only way to see genuinely improved quality.

 

[HairyO]

Big Footy is symptomatic of the industry in general here. People basically go on the game day boards to whinge about every umpiring decision or non decision that goes against the team they like. Imagine if they did the same for every bad decision or poor skill execution a player made.

You hear it all the time: "oh that number 15 hates Geelong, he kills us every time he has us..." Like maybe they're just blowing off some steam, but that's some seriously delusional BS.

And it goes on. Since I've been a kid (and I'm sure for generations before that) it's been part and parcel of going to local footy and hear the umpires being abused. I don't really see it at the local level at other sports, but it's a constant at local footy.

So, if umpiring quality is an issue at the elite level, what's the solution? I would have thought clubs committing to zero tolerance at grassroots level and higher salaries at the elite and second tier levels are the only way to see genuinely improved quality.

I watch a lot of football and the quality of umpiring is just terrible at the moment. Nearly every game has a team being obviously favoured whether through unearned free kicks or denying free kicks to the other team.

We alao see baffling calls with the Insufficient OOB. In the Port v Saints game the other week late in the game Port were having 20m kicks called Play on despite ao many umpires pay Marks to kicks which barely go 10m in the forward line (AFL directive for morrrrr goals).

The legitimacy of games are being wrecked by the AFL and their need to control everything about the game.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Big Footy is symptomatic of the industry in general here. People basically go on the game day boards to whinge about every umpiring decision or non decision that goes against the team they like. Imagine if they did the same for every bad decision or poor skill execution a player made.

You hear it all the time: "oh that number 15 hates Geelong, he kills us every time he has us..." Like maybe they're just blowing off some steam, but that's some seriously delusional BS.

And it goes on. Since I've been a kid (and I'm sure for generations before that) it's been part and parcel of going to local footy and hear the umpires being abused. I don't really see it at the local level at other sports, but it's a constant at local footy.

So, if umpiring quality is an issue at the elite level, what's the solution? I would have thought clubs committing to zero tolerance at grassroots level and higher salaries at the elite and second tier levels are the only way to see genuinely improved quality.

Do we need a main board rule where only supporters of teams NOT involved in the game can comment on umpiring in a game day thread?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Do we need a main board rule where only supporters of teams NOT involved in the game can comment on umpiring in a game day thread?

Not sure how practical that would be, but I would be in favour of a cap of two "In the back!! FFS!!" style posts per poster per game.

I don't think the neutral rule would work. Because with teams like Geelong, Richmond, we'll start seeing it with Collingwood, Hawthorn in their glory years... the match day board is flooded with 'neutrals' barracking harder against the aforementioned teams than they would for the club that they actually support.

I think it's just something that people need to self-police. Like if all eight of your posts in a match day thread are about umpiring decisions, it's probably time for you to re-evaluate things.

 

[western royboy]

I watch a lot of football and the quality of umpiring is just terrible at the moment. Nearly every game has a team being obviously favoured whether through unearned free kicks or denying free kicks to the other team.

We alao see baffling calls with the Insufficient OOB. In the Port v Saints game the other week late in the game Port were having 20m kicks called Play on despite ao many umpires pay Marks to kicks which barely go 10m in the forward line (AFL directive for morrrrr goals).

The legitimacy of games are being wrecked by the AFL and their need to control everything about the game.

I’m simple terms if you work in a pyramid or silo system - if the base is weak then the tip cannot be strong.

The base of umpiring (community level) is exceptionally weak.

As indicated this is due largely to lack of incentive and abuse

 

[western royboy]

Big Footy is symptomatic of the industry in general here. People basically go on the game day boards to whinge about every umpiring decision or non decision that goes against the team they like. Imagine if they did the same for every bad decision or poor skill execution a player made.

You hear it all the time: "oh that number 15 hates Geelong, he kills us every time he has us..." Like maybe they're just blowing off some steam, but that's some seriously delusional BS.

And it goes on. Since I've been a kid (and I'm sure for generations before that) it's been part and parcel of going to local footy and hear the umpires being abused. I don't really see it at the local level at other sports, but it's a constant at local footy.

So, if umpiring quality is an issue at the elite level, what's the solution? I would have thought clubs committing to zero tolerance at grassroots level and higher salaries at the elite and second tier levels are the only way to see genuinely improved quality.

In reality - it is rare that the umpires influence the result of a game. Due to so many rules being subject to interpretation there will always be conjecture. When that turns to abuse is the problem

 

[western royboy]

It wound appear this week it’s Leigh Fisher

Leigh Fisher

Age

40

Ht

188cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

7.5

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.4

4star

’s turn to cop it…from both teams

 

[westie]

It wound appear this week it’s Leigh Fisher’s turn to cop it…from both teams

Yeah, well he is far worse than Eleni!

 

[HairyO]

Yeah, well he is far worse than Eleni!

This is the thing, Eleni may make errors, like all umpires and players and coaches and all of us, but she really isnt any worse than any of them.