Embarassing

[ant555]

fair enough thats your take. I look at it that you need to do some arguing to rate his history, but we can sorta agree to disagree.

Now on Bendigo, over the past couple seasons you have probably seen more Bendigo than most, what is your take on that relationship going forward.

I know we are contracted for this season (and next?) but what about beyond that. My gut feel is to go it alone.

My feel is to get out of Bendigo.

We have not really had a problem with player development becasue we have been able to use players where we wan't but the whole set up is way too amatuerish.

They don't attract big sponsorship dollars which then limits the amount of decent VFL players they can afford.

Players recently out of AFL do not find Bendigo attractive becasue the job oppertunites are not there so most are working in Melbourne. They dont wan't to traveling to Bendigo three times per week for training.

Our listed players don't really like the traveling up there , mainly becasue the last thing you want to be doing after playing a game of footy is traveling two hours on a bus back to WH and then having to get home from there.

We have not seen any real benifit of the Bendigo Pioneers being aligned with the Bendigo Bombers. They seem to just get the left over small players. The better ones get drafted or move to Melbourne for schooling or work and play their footy there.

I doub't the alignment is driving any huge supporter base gains. There would have been around 400 at last weeks game and half of them would have been Williamstown supporters.

I just think we would get better value going it alone. Playing games out of WH where everything is in house and we would attract better quality kids into the program and that gives you a better oppertunity to to look closely at more players.

 

[bombre-boy]

My feel is to get out of Bendigo.


I heard a collongwood coach or player being interviewed today on MMM, he was asked why theie younger players seem to be able to make the jump into senior footy so well. He answered that as they had their own VFL team and could develop their players in the roles they want to and in the way they want to. Winning of games were really not foremost in the big picture, when the windfall of developing players was considered.

I agree we should get our own VFL team, at least then we can control our yonger players development.

 

[dapto]

Good reading but back on topic
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It is still embarrassing

 

[ant555]

My feel is to get out of Bendigo.


I heard a collongwood coach or player being interviewed today on MMM, he was asked why theie younger players seem to be able to make the jump into senior footy so well. He answered that as they had their own VFL team and could develop their players in the roles they want to and in the way they want to. Winning of games were really not foremost in the big picture, when the windfall of developing players was considered.

I agree we should get our own VFL team, at least then we can control our yonger players development.

Actually this is not the problem at all with the Bendigo alignment. We do have complete control over where our young players are on the field and what roles they play for Bendigo. Hickmont is our development coach and Bendigo's coach and Knights has all of the input into how the players are used.Bendigo fitness coach is also our rehab coach.
We currently do have complete control over the Essendon listed players

 

[The Donners]

We've got all this coin at Windy Hill yet it was a Sydney player that was given a "revolutionary" knee reconstruction, forgive my ignorance but why was Davey not given this same operation/treatment? For me it seems Essendon have NEVER been at the forefront of "revolutionary" techniques of rehabiliation etc.

It's embarrassing that teams like Geelong and Sydney in various ways have attempted to trial "revolutionary" steps to player recovery, why are we behind in these technologies?

 

[ant555]

We've got all this coin at Windy Hill yet it was a Sydney player that was given a "revolutionary" knee reconstruction, forgive my ignorance but why was Davey not given this same operation/treatment? For me it seems Essendon have NEVER been at the forefront of "revolutionary" techniques of rehabiliation etc.

It's embarrassing that teams like Geelong and Sydney in various ways have attempted to trial "revolutionary" steps to player recovery, why are we behind in these technologies?

Agree . It is one of the things i have mentioned a few times when the discussion truns to our injury problems.
When it comes to solutions to injuries our medico's do have the blinkers on a lot of the time.
I will say that im not totally sold on the "revolutionary" knee surgery though. It has been around for a long time and is actually banned in some countries (France is one). It is very high risk and there are a lot of cases that have seen players require more repair works after 3 or 4 months.
Having had two knee reco's during my footy career i do have some insight into the options available.

 

[The Donners]

Agree . It is one of the things i have mentioned a few times when the discussion truns to our injury problems.
When it comes to solutions to injuries our medico's do have the blinkers on a lot of the time.
I will say that im not totally sold on the "revolutionary" knee surgery though. It has been around for a long time and is actually banned in some countries (France is one). It is very high risk and there are a lot of cases that have seen players require more repair works after 3 or 4 months.
Having had two knee reco's during my footy career i do have some insight into the options available.

Thanks Ant. In all honesty I don't know what the procedure entails but if a player can be back within 12 weeks of a knee reconstruction it must be drastic.

 

[Merv]

We've got all this coin at Windy Hill yet it was a Sydney player that was given a "revolutionary" knee reconstruction, forgive my ignorance but why was Davey not given this same operation/treatment? For me it seems Essendon have NEVER been at the forefront of "revolutionary" techniques of rehabiliation etc.

It's embarrassing that teams like Geelong and Sydney in various ways have attempted to trial "revolutionary" steps to player recovery, why are we behind in these technologies?

This is one of your best posts.

Not just the knee issue but that we aren't at the forefront of anything.

As the league has become more and more professional, we have slipped further and further backwards.

I have been on about this for years.

 

[ant555]

I will tell you what is really embarassing. Essendon supporters
For years most have hung it on Richmond supporters for turning on their own and being a complete rabble. Well at least they have had 20 plus years of average performances as a reason to be pissed off at their own club.
Have a look at some of our supporters. We have been ordinary for less than 5 years and when we really hit hard times on the field they are all out their behaving in the same way as those opposition supporters who they seem happy to ridicule.
Seriously why dont you all line up on the fence and start spitting at the coach next week

 

[ant555]

Thanks Ant. In all honesty I don't know what the procedure entails but if a player can be back within 12 weeks of a knee reconstruction it must be drastic.

Becasue they don't use any hamstring tendon players can get back very quickly. Part of the reason why it takes 12 months to get back from an ACL injury is the fact that the hamstring tendon has to repair itself as well.
What they did with Malceski is use a synthetic tendon to repair the damage , so once the knee has enough stability and the soreness goes from it you are right to play .Previously there have been some success stories. Doug Hawkins had it done during the 80's. There where a few others done around the same time that did not work out.
When i had my second op done it was one option i could have gone for but part of the risks that where explained to me at the time was the synthetic tendons where a risk of never completely healing as well as a natural tendon and there was a very high risk of more repair work needing to be done or the possability of another complete reco with normal tendon at a later date.
I guess if you are playing leauge footy and your team is still pretty much in the mix as a top 4 contender the synthetic way of doing it is an attractive option as you can always get it ifxed later on.

 

[The Donners]

This is one of your best posts.

Not just the knee issue but that we aren't at the forefront of anything.

As the league has become more and more professional, we have slipped further and further backwards.

I have been on about this for years.

Appreciate that Merv. Thanks.

re: the forefront of anything:
Correct me if I am wrong but it was Sheedy's idea to trial overseas sports people in the AFL, for example Ireland, but to my knowledge we have not had 1 overseas player play a senior match (you can argue Mal Michael and Winis Imbi) for the club. Sydney, Collingwood, Melbourne, Carlton etc. have had Irishman perform quite well. We've had a former NFL player (Armstrong) play reserves and I believe 2 Japanese players do the same (or at least trained with us) yet we've never actually had a "victory" in this sense. This frustrates me a little because we've seen the talent that can be found, Kennelly, Stynes, White, O'Hailipin (arguable), Clarke etc.

What would be required to scout an overseas player, would there need to be a recruiter based overseas? From those clubs that have recruited the abovementioned, Collingwood would be the only team that would have our financial resources so I wouldn't have thought that aspect would've been an issue.

 

[stander]

I will tell you what is really embarassing. Essendon supporters
For years most have hung it on Richmond supporters for turning on their own and being a complete rabble. Well at least they have had 20 plus years of average performances as a reason to be pissed off at their own club.
Have a look at some of our supporters. We have been ordinary for less than 5 years and when we really hit hard times on the field they are all out their behaving in the same way as those opposition supporters who they seem happy to ridicule.
Seriously why dont you all line up on the fence and start spitting at the coach next week

They're theatre goers Ant robus. When the show goes wrong they want ther money back.

 

[The Donners]

I will tell you what is really embarassing. Essendon supporters
For years most have hung it on Richmond supporters for turning on their own and being a complete rabble. Well at least they have had 20 plus years of average performances as a reason to be pissed off at their own club.
Have a look at some of our supporters. We have been ordinary for less than 5 years and when we really hit hard times on the field they are all out their behaving in the same way as those opposition supporters who they seem happy to ridicule.
Seriously why dont you all line up on the fence and start spitting at the coach next week

That's fair, I, along with others, have been spoilt for the better part of '81-'04. For me it's more of a vent of my frustrations. We're all frustrated but some, like myself, show it in a different way, bagging the players in a forum is easy. Having said that, I come from the school where the club is more important than the player and if I'm investing my hard-earned into that club then I have a right to criticise- without personal attacks.

I wouldn't spit on the coach or any of the players by the way!

 

[Merv]

Appreciate that Merv. Thanks.

re: the forefront of anything:
Correct me if I am wrong but it was Sheedy's idea to trial overseas sports people in the AFL, for example Ireland, but to my knowledge we have not had 1 overseas player play a senior match (you can argue Mal Michael and Winis Imbi) for the club. Sydney, Collingwood, Melbourne, Carlton etc. have had Irishman perform quite well. We've had a former NFL player (Armstrong) play reserves and I believe 2 Japanese players do the same (or at least trained with us) yet we've never actually had a "victory" in this sense. This frustrates me a little because we've seen the talent that can be found, Kennelly, Stynes, White, O'Hailipin (arguable), Clarke etc.

What would be required to scout an overseas player, would there need to be a recruiter based overseas? From those clubs that have recruited the abovementioned, Collingwood would be the only team that would have our financial resources so I wouldn't have thought that aspect would've been an issue.

The thing about that is, imo, you do that stuff as the icing on the cake when you are traveling well.

We are in no position to take risks and we need to be at the forefront of the things we KNOW make you successful.

Recruiting/Development and Fitness/Injury management.

Who is the best recruiter in the league?

Maybe Pelchin, go buy him
Maybe Beatson, go buy him.

I am not as down on Dodoro as others as i believe Sheedy, it's only my guess not fact, had a major say in recruiting and was responsible for the topping up every year which has put us in the mess we are in atm.

Recruitment is the most important area of the game now, as even injury management, coaches, or anything else you can think of will not help if you don't get the best talent.

 

[The Donners]

The thing about that is, imo, you do that stuff as the icing on the cake when you are traveling well.

We are in no position to take risks and we need to be at the forefront of the things we KNOW make you successful.

Recruiting/Development and Fitness/Injury management.

Who is the best recruiter in the league?

Maybe Pelchin, go buy him
Maybe Beatson, go buy him.

I am not as down on Dodoro as others as i believe Sheedy, it's only my guess not fact, had a major say in recruiting and was responsible for the topping up every year which has put us in the mess we are in atm.

Recruitment is the most important area of the game now, as even injury management, coaches, or anything else you can think of will not help if you don't get the best talent.

What is Noel Judkins doing with himself these days? IMO our recruiting went pear-shaped when he left in the mid to late 90s.

 

[mxett]

I will tell you what is really embarassing. Essendon supporters
For years most have hung it on Richmond supporters for turning on their own and being a complete rabble. Well at least they have had 20 plus years of average performances as a reason to be pissed off at their own club.
Have a look at some of our supporters. We have been ordinary for less than 5 years and when we really hit hard times on the field they are all out their behaving in the same way as those opposition supporters who they seem happy to ridicule.
Seriously why dont you all line up on the fence and start spitting at the coach next week

I think that is a little harsh. People bleed AFL. Essendon supporters really hurt when they fail. Yes, to get personal, calling players this and that is a bit over the top. But to honestly assess our list as poor is not the same.

For me, even if we lose, I just want a competitive effort at least. All too often this year that hasn't happened. That's when I draw the line, and go from disappointed to angry.

Seriously, we have had some prime time TV games this year in which our performance has been disgraceful at best. A real laughing stock of the AFL.

Its not unusual supporters are getting upset. I also don't see us spitting on the coach, but a season of more games like the last 4, I think Knights should take precautions and wear protection!