Esava remains a Cat!!

[ninjahcat]

Just like everyone's always comparing Petracca with Bontempelli.

I'd say that's because they are both elite mids about the same age who can break the game open.
Not because their mothers cook great pasta.

 

[ShaunWDT]

I honestly think if Sav got the opportunity to be a main target inside 50 he could be anything, on a hiding to nothing when you're coached to basically be a decoy.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Nope.

He absolutely sucks in the Ruck, being a good athlete at the stoppage doesnt change the fact that he consistently gets slaughtered in there, Ruck craft is something you either have or you dont, you arent learning that 5 years into a career.

 

[ShaunWDT]

His marking is okay, I wouldn't describe it as excellent. At the start of his career he had difficulty holding it after the first grab.

Its just okay for mine, hes two grabbed or run under marks his whole career, calling him excellent in that aspect is having a laugh really.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Other young players might have interest from other clubs. I doubt Sav has had any.

My guess is that interest would be limited to 16 or 17 other clubs

 

[you pick one]

Honestly, he looks a lot more like a Nathan Vardy prospect if he were to remain a ruckman. Vardy's never been close to elite in that position.
I'm hoping Ratugolea can develop as a key position player and De Koning can become our future gun ruckman.

Nathan Vardy,Henry Playfair,Matthew McCarthy,Josh Walker take your pick.

 

[you pick one]

I honestly think if Sav got the opportunity to be a main target inside 50 he could be anything, on a hiding to nothing when you're coached to basically be a decoy.

Not if he can't kick.

 

[you pick one]

My guess is that interest would be limited to 16 or 17 other clubs

Sounds like we could ask for a pick in the top 10.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Sounds like we could ask for a pick in the top 10.

If U don't ask, U don't get

 

[Vdubs]

I don't think it's much of an issue. Jezza will be back in hopefully 3-4 weeks so the need to play Sav solely as a forward will become moot. The real scenario will remain the battle between Sav and Stanley for the no. 1 ruck spot. If Sav wants to play finals he'll need to prove he's a better option than Stanley. That's how I see it. But once Jezza is back, Sav's only hope to play is as the ruck.

A lot can happen over the next 5 weeks while Cameron is out.

 

[standupand]

I'd say that's because they are both elite mids about the same age who can break the game open.
Not because their mothers cook great pasta.

Yep. That was my point.

 

[Seeds]

He seems to be going backwards. this is his worst season.

 

[cats_09]

He seems to be going backwards. this is his worst season.

I know Stanley was rubbish against Sydney, but we did Ratugolea no favours rushing him into the seniors

He should have been given a good month or 2 of just VFL football before any consideration of a senior promotion

Can't help thinking that an extended run in the VFL with the opportunity to dominate at that level and build confidence in his body & game would have been much better for him & his development, compared with throwing him into the seniors where he's just looked out of his depth this season

I know that some players actually look better at senior level then a lower level and pumping senior games into them can be beneficial for their development, but just not seeing it here

It's clear he's got the backing of the coaches this year, but with how often he's being beaten by his opponent or just not impacting a match, it can't be helping his confidence

 

[Vdubs]

I know Stanley was rubbish against Sydney, but we did Ratugolea no favours rushing him into the seniors

He should have been given a good month or 2 of just VFL football before any consideration of a senior promotion

Can't help thinking that an extended run in the VFL with the opportunity to dominate at that level and build confidence in his body & game would have been much better for him & his development, compared with throwing him into the seniors where he's just looked out of his depth this season

I know that some players actually look better at senior level then a lower level and pumping senior games into them can be beneficial for their development, but just not seeing it here

It's clear he's got the backing of the class this year, but with how often he's being beaten by his opponent or just not impacting a match, it can't be helping his confidence

So you keep saying.
He has a good 5 weeks to find form and confidence as a KF while Cameron is out.
Let's be patient

 

[patmatcat]

I honestly think if Sav got the opportunity to be a main target inside 50 he could be anything, on a hiding to nothing when you're coached to basically be a decoy.

Did you watch today ? Played 1 out all day on a heavily undermanned Carlton and was atrocious, could not mark and is a liability infront of goal.

 

[cats_09]

So you keep saying.
He has a good 5 weeks to find form and confidence as a KF while Cameron is out.
Let's be patient

Why does he have 5 weeks?

I'm happy to be patient and watch him develop in the VFL

But we sit top 3, will be playing finals and need to know who our best options are - at some stage calls need to be made if players are in our best side this year

 

[Vdubs]

Why does he have 5 weeks?

I'm happy to be patient and watch him develop in the VFL

But we sit top 3, will be playing finals and need to know who our best options are - at some stage calls need to be made if players are in our best side this year

Like for like.
He has been touted as our future; Cameron is out 5 weeks or so; Sav can fill a void that is compatible with our structure with Hawk at FF.

 

[cats_09]

Like for like.
He has been touted as our future; Cameron is out 5 weeks or so; Sav can fill a void that is compatible with our structure with Hawk at FF.

Unless injured, I don't see him missing from the team next week and from the looks of the past 7/8 weeks it would seem that the MC is pretty intent on slotting him into the side somehow

But surely it's fair to want to see improvement, and that if we're not actually seeing an impact at senior level but there are those at VFL level who are putting in performances warranting senior selection, that his spot in the side should be in question

 

[Vdubs]

Unless injured, I don't see him missing from the team next week and from the looks of the past 7/8 weeks it would seem that the MC is pretty intent on slotting him into the side somehow

But surely it's fair to want to see improvement, and that if we're not actually seeing an impact at senior level but there are those at VFL level who are putting in performances warranting senior selection, that his spot in the side should be in question

Agree. We all want to see improvement. They are being very patient with him. I personally am happy they are keeping him in. I truly believe the rewards are not far away.

 

[strauchnyy]

Posted this in the autopsy Carlton thread but more relevant here.

Esava is a victim of stagnant development from being played out of position. Injuries also played a part.

as a result he lacks confidence. And like players with elite athletic ability who are still developing footy nous, confidence is key.

all year esava has been played out of position in the ruck. He is not a ruck in the slightest. Too short, not great around the ground. Lacks nous. Rucks need that footy nous to be effective around the ground and he doesn’t have it yet due to his age. Right now, esava IS A FORWARD. That’s where he’s played his best footy. The marks, the spark, that final against west coast, that was all as a key forward.

right now as a young key position player, he relies on confidence. And he was on track, taking big marks as a power forward. He is the type of player that’d rely on athleticism in the first few years until confidence allows nous to develop. We completely threw this out the window trying to pull him out of position and into a position we need (ruck).

this has broken him and stagnated his whole development as a power forward as he has lost all confidence. There are still glimpses, that first goal today. But for the most part it’s shot.

there’s still hope. He needs to be developed and trained as a key forward to take over from Hawkins in a couple years. Esava the power athletic forward + Cameron. That’s our future post Hawkins.

get Him out of the ruck and play him to his strengths and we have a long term key player.

 

[Seeds]

I know Stanley was rubbish against Sydney, but we did Ratugolea no favours rushing him into the seniors

He should have been given a good month or 2 of just VFL football before any consideration of a senior promotion

Can't help thinking that an extended run in the VFL with the opportunity to dominate at that level and build confidence in his body & game would have been much better for him & his development, compared with throwing him into the seniors where he's just looked out of his depth this season

I know that some players actually look better at senior level then a lower level and pumping senior games into them can be beneficial for their development, but just not seeing it here

It's clear he's got the backing of the class this year, but with how often he's being beaten by his opponent or just not impacting a match, it can't be helping his confidence

Agree.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

Why do people keep saying he has potential?

He has shown he can leap at the ball and that is about it. He has no ability to read the play, has no footskills and is not big enough to ruck

None of those things are going to improve. I see skills and smarts as potential with all the improvement coming from athletic potential being realised through maturation and training.

More than happy for Sav to prove me wrong, but you have to feel for Jenkins and Fort who can't buy a game.

 

[Chinacats]

Why do people keep saying he has potential?

He has shown he can leap at the ball and that is about it. He has no ability to read the play, has no footskills and is not big enough to ruck

None of those things are going to improve. I see skills and smarts as potential with all the improvement coming from athletic potential being realised through maturation and training.

More than happy for Sav to prove me wrong, but you have to feel for Jenkins and Fort who can't buy a game.

Yes potential is a dangerous word. Has athletic ability and his potential is based on that. Under 9’s footballers have more nous than him. Had 5 pre seasons and has the benefit of being schooled by Tommy and co.. and still…..Will be 23 in 2 weeks. Has he been signed already? What’s his contract situation? The problem is Tommy is getting on so this lump will stay on as the Tommy replacement…
Problem !

 

[cats_09]

Yes potential is a dangerous word. Has athletic ability and his potential is based on that. Under 9’s footballers have more nous than him. Had 5 pre seasons and has the benefit of being schooled by Tommy and co.. and still…..Will be 23 in 2 weeks. Has he been signed already? What’s his contract situation? The problem is Tommy is getting on so this lump will stay on as the Tommy replacement…
Problem !

Seems like Neale is progressing nicely since being shifted forward in the VFL, having kicked 6.3 in the last 3 weeks - I know he was drafted as a ruck/forward, but never know how he will develop

Maybe Ratugolea will have competition in regards to be the next young forward on the list

 

[Turbocat]

Posted this in the autopsy Carlton thread but more relevant here.

Esava is a victim of stagnant development from being played out of position. Injuries also played a part.

as a result he lacks confidence. And like players with elite athletic ability who are still developing footy nous, confidence is key.

all year esava has been played out of position in the ruck. He is not a ruck in the slightest. Too short, not great around the ground. Lacks nous. Rucks need that footy nous to be effective around the ground and he doesn’t have it yet due to his age. Right now, esava IS A FORWARD. That’s where he’s played his best footy. The marks, the spark, that final against west coast, that was all as a key forward.

right now as a young key position player, he relies on confidence. And he was on track, taking big marks as a power forward. He is the type of player that’d rely on athleticism in the first few years until confidence allows nous to develop. We completely threw this out the window trying to pull him out of position and into a position we need (ruck).

this has broken him and stagnated his whole development as a power forward as he has lost all confidence. There are still glimpses, that first goal today. But for the most part it’s shot.

there’s still hope. He needs to be developed and trained as a key forward to take over from Hawkins in a couple years. Esava the power athletic forward + Cameron. That’s our future post Hawkins.

get Him out of the ruck and play him to his strengths and we have a long term key player.

sensible post. I cant agree that he will ever be anything more than dangling carrot as a forward till he fixes some stuff which can be done off field. What you describe is what we have done to a few players. I wonder how Hawk would have gone playing half the time in the ruck in his early struggle street times.

He need a specialist coach. We should pay the tax and get someone who can help him improve or we will be looking for a FA when Hawkins retires.