Essendon 2021

[HairyO]

Good question.
It's 10.years since last flag..in my opinion since then only 2 years club was genuine flag chance 2013 and 2020

So the proper measure would be 0 from 2. I think thats reasonable. 2020 really felt like a choke. Very similar to us against Geelong earlier in the year. In it up to half time then packed upnand went home.

 

[Gavin Excell]

You think Geelong supporters are happy with the last decade??

@Pure Ownage, what’s the feeling like? Would most cats supporters want more flags or you guys happy just making up the numbers?


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Yes and no. It's an 18 team comp. If you are up there making prelims you at least give yourself a chance

At same time almost half the.comp makes the 8. Achieving that really isnt that great a feat

 

[Gavin Excell]

So the proper measure would be 0 from 2. I think thats reasonable. 2020 really felt like a choke. Very similar to us against Geelong earlier in the year. In it up to half time then packed upnand went home.

Nah. I accept Tigers simply better..as the result showed

 

[Yoda_]

Yes and no. It's an 18 team comp. If you are up there making prelims you at least give yourself a chance

At same time almost half the.comp makes the 8. Achieving that really isnt that great a feat

I understand this, but the clubs making up numbers are acting like it’s meaning something.


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[Gavin Excell]

I understand this, but the clubs making up numbers are acting like it’s meaning something.


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With respect but making a GF, I wouldn't thought is making up.numbers

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Wut?
McGrath averaged more contested possessions than the over hyped James Worpel!
A top shelf trending intercept defender and a ruck on the same trajectory as Max Gawn at the same age.

Yeah, I’m content


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Worpel had a let down year not even arguing that, but using the same logic Scrimshaw averaged more intercepts than ‘The overhyped Jordan Ridley’.

Same trajectory as Gawn lmfao... just because Gawn did an ACL and took time to cement himself doesn’t make them on the same trajectory.

 

[HairyO]

Worpel had a let down year not even arguing that, but using the same logic Scrimshaw averaged more intercepts than ‘The overhyped Jordan Ridley’.

Same trajectory as Gawn lmfao... just because Gawn did an ACL and took time to cement himself doesn’t make them on the same trajectory.

Last 3 games Greaves had the best disposals % in the comp.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Last 3 games Greaves had the best disposals % in the comp.

He must be tracking to be the next sam Mitchell!!! Brilliant

 

[Yoda_]

Worpel had a let down year not even arguing that, but using the same logic Scrimshaw averaged more intercepts than ‘The overhyped Jordan Ridley’.

Same trajectory as Gawn lmfao... just because Gawn did an ACL and took time to cement himself doesn’t make them on the same trajectory.

I’ll leave this here


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[Yoda_]

With respect but making a GF, I wouldn't thought is making up.numbers

That comment was in reference to clubs like Carlton and St.Kilda who think making the second week of finals is some sort of an achievement


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[Sonny Hayes]

I’ll leave this here


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Yes but that is not a good thing... Young Max Gawn was not exactly a star. It took him getting over injuries and knuckling down to leap out as the star he is.

Averaging similar stats to him at the same age does not at all suggest he is going to break out in the same fashion.

Draper is currently a sub 10 disposal winner who doesn't go forward and kick goals, doesn't get overly involved around the ground with marks either.

Don't get me wrong he has talent and i think he is a good prospect but that is all he is. Still has a long long long way to go and suggesting he is on track to be the next Gawn is just silly.

 

[Yoda_]

Yes but that is not a good thing... Young Max Gawn was not exactly a star. It took him getting over injuries and knuckling down to leap out as the star he is.

Averaging similar stats to him at the same age does not at all suggest he is going to break out in the same fashion.

Draper is currently a sub 10 disposal winner who doesn't go forward and kick goals, doesn't get overly involved around the ground with marks either.

Don't get me wrong he has talent and i think he is a good prospect but that is all he is. Still has a long long long way to go and suggesting he is on track to be the next Gawn is just silly.

And how else does one gauge a young rucks trajectory in the game?

Weird opinion this one


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[Dadda Dave]

That comment was in reference to clubs like Carlton and St.Kilda who think making the second week of finals is some sort of an achievement


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But a little bit better than not winning one in almost 6000 days one would think.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Martin at essendon would have nevered made it past a half decent player.

It took more than martin himself to become one of the G.O.A.T

If he was drafted by essendon at the end of 2009, he wouldn't be much better than stringer if not already delisted or left due to becoming disillusioned by the direction of the club and the leadership.

With the right club structure and personnel, elite talents will suddenly pop up when the club requires it.

Disagree, competent systems forms around stars. Brilliant game breakers help teams get reward for effort which inspires confidence in their system and encourages people to play their roles.

 

[Yoda_]

But a little bit better than not winning one in almost 6000 days one would think.

Mediocre clubs celebrate mediocre results.


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[Sonny Hayes]

And how else does one gauge a young rucks trajectory in the game?

Weird opinion this one


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How does Gawn emerging as a superstar indicate Draper is going to do the same thing?

The fact they both had similar disposal and hit out numbers does not suggest Draper will improve to be anything close to the player Gawn is... I could find other young ruck men at the same age that went on to be busts or journey men who had similar stat lines, it does not project what they will be going forward.

I would call is extremely basic analysis but i do not even think it fits that. It is more just hope.

His stats taking out the Gawn comparison are very average albeit from a small sample size. Good young player, unlikely to be the next Gawn.

 

[Rad Roo]

Your hypothesising something that has not happened. Rewriting history to suit your own argument.

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History is always written by winners, based on the most recent winners points to a strong possibility that elite talents are just the start, how you train, mentor and develop them is far more important. Also recent history suggest the best teams are the one that have the best supporting groups and not just the 'superstars' so the days of getting a few big name players to top things will forever get trapped in a trap of near enough but not good enough.

 

[Rad Roo]

Disagree, competent systems forms around stars. Brilliant game breakers help teams get reward for effort which inspires confidence in their system and encourages people to play their roles.

Ummmm, you kinda need the system there to get the players in the first place.....

System create good players, how do you know who are the stars? I distinctively remember certain team picked tambling over franklin...........it wasn't until Gale took over in 2010 and said enough is enough, new era...

 

[Yoda_]

How does Gawn emerging as a superstar indicate Draper is going to do the same thing?

The fact they both had similar disposal and hit out numbers does not suggest Draper will improve to be anything close to the player Gawn is... I could find other young ruck men at the same age that went on to be busts or journey men who had similar stat lines, it does not project what they will be going forward.

I would call is extremely basic analysis but i do not even think it fits that. It is more just hope.

His stats taking out the Gawn comparison are very average albeit from a small sample size. Good young player, unlikely to be the next Gawn.

Can you give me some stats of similarly statistical guys of Gawn around Drapers age please?


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[Yoda_]

“And a ruck on the same trajectory as Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

” is the direct quote

Not a definitive YES HE WILL BE THE MULTIPLE AA RUCK THAT MAX IS player but projecting to be a handy ruckmen.

No retracting here but a clarification that Sam and Max share similar statistical analysis at the same age.


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[Sonny Hayes]

Can you give me some stats of similarly statistical guys of Gawn around Drapers age please?


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Okay first one i found Zac Smith

12.4 disposals - 8.2
18.4 hit outs - 18.5 hit outs
2.1 marks - 1.9 marks
0.3 goals - 0.1 goals

Does that mean he is tracking to be the next Zac Smith?

 

[Yoda_]

Okay first one i found Zac Smith

12.4 disposals - 8.2
18.4 hit outs - 18.5 hit outs
2.1 marks - 1.9 marks
0.3 goals - 0.1 goals

Does that mean he is tracking to be the next Zac Smith?

And most educated pundits would agree that Zac was tracking to be a very good ruckmen.

I am in no way saying that Sam is going to be the next Max Gawn, I am suggesting that in comparison to one of the best, he stacks up comparably.


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[Red Black and Blue]

Ummmm, you kinda need the system there to get the players in the first place.....

System create good players, how do you know who are the stars? I distinctively remember certain team picked tambling over franklin...........it wasn't until Gale took over in 2010 and said enough is enough, new era...

In 2018 we played a system for the second half of that season that was as good as anyone bar Richmond, beating the eventual premiers and losing to 3 top four teams by a combined 25 points. The players didn't become stars and they couldn't carry it over to the next season. Why? The players didn't exit their prime, they clearly showed the ability to stick to an effective game plan for a long period of time.

Gale said enough is enough, but without Riewoldt and Martin being exceptionally dynamic players that system would have never developed. At most they'ed have developed a great defensive unit that would grind out results, but without that efficiency up forward the lack of reward for effort would have made it fall apart IMO.

 

[master bate]

And most educated pundits would agree that Zac was tracking to be a very good ruckmen.

I am in no way saying that Sam is going to be the next Max Gawn, I am suggesting that in comparison to one of the best, he stacks up comparably.


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Trajectory means path or progression. So when you say Draper has a similar trajectory it's very easily implied that you expect the same outcome. When you've just seen for all Smith's talent he didn't produce the same outcome.

I'm a big Draper fan. I think he'll be at least a solid starting ruck sometime soon and for a while. I'd just take the loss on using the term trajectory in conjunction with one of the games best rucks when describing a young ruck.

Because Rhys Palmer had better stats and a similar trajectory after 1 season to Chris Judd if you want to use it that way and that's not what people would say now.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Mediocre clubs celebrate mediocre results.


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