Everything Breeding

[Yaaablett]

It was mentioned in a post a few days ago. Its something that hasnt really been touched on too much. My idea is we can discuss theories, sires, sales, pedigrees and families. Lets try and keep it nice!

I'll start. I was a big Lonhro fan and have been eagerly awaiting his progeny. I have watched 2 to race so far- Segolene (twice) and Munhro. Segolene out of Crown Lodge's handy Grand Lodge mare Dorky and Munhro retained by the breeders out of their good mare Regrowth (family of Snippets). Both have shown good speed but not finished it off. Segolene fought on ok in her first start.

How do you think he'll go? By Octagonal who hasnt lived up to expectations. He has produced, apart form superstar Lonhro, a couple of G1 winners and some solid listed/group class horses. Remember he was given some outstanding mares in his first few seasons. Obviously from the Sir Tristram line through Zabeel - Octagonal- Lonhro, his sireline is among the most successful in Australasia and is exceptional. Zabeel has basically no success as a sire of sires as most are gelded or not good enough. Reset may make it. His dam Shadea by Mr Prospector horse Straight Strike from the family of Grosvenor was a fast 2 year old and has produced Niello as well. Grosvenor was a pretty good sire producing a few Group 1 winners.

A few things in Lonhro's favour is that while he looks like Occy in colour he is a different type. Lonhro was a magnificent type, a ball of muscle, built like a sprinter-miler which is what he was, his brilliance carried him to 2000. His acceleration was something else. I read that Colin Hayes and Sir Patrick Hogan always rated Zabeel's acceleration and John Hawkes rated Occys acceleration as a young horse highly. If Lonhro can pass this down he is a chance. He'll get great mares so will have no excuse.

I'd love to see Danehill line mares sent to him that had genuine speed. Despite being by Occy I think he'll make it. Caulfield Guines day 2008 we'll see a Lonhro colt out of a Danehill mare win the Guineas.

 

[the_fresh]

It was mentioned in a post a few days ago. Its something that hasnt really been touched on too much. My idea is we can discuss theories, sires, sales, pedigrees and families. Lets try and keep it nice!

I'll start. I was a big Lonhro fan and have been eagerly awaiting his progeny. I have watched 2 to race so far- Segolene (twice) and Munhro. Segolene out of Crown Lodge's handy Grand Lodge mare Dorky and Munhro retained by the breeders out of their good mare Regrowth (family of Snippets). Both have shown good speed but not finished it off. Segolene fought on ok in her first start.

How do you think he'll go? By Octagonal who hasnt lived up to expectations. He has produced, apart form superstar Lonhro, a couple of G1 winners and some solid listed/group class horses. Remember he was given some outstanding mares in his first few seasons. Obviously from the Sir Tristram line through Zabeel - Octagonal- Lonhro, his sireline is among the most successful in Australasia and is exceptional. Zabeel has basically no success as a sire of sires as most are gelded or not good enough. Reset may make it. His dam Shadea by Mr Prospector horse Straight Strike from the family of Grosvenor was a fast 2 year old and has produced Niello as well. Grosvenor was a pretty good sire producing a few Group 1 winners.

A few things in Lonhro's favour is that while he looks like Occy in colour he is a different type. Lonhro was a magnificent type, a ball of muscle, built like a sprinter-miler which is what he was, his brilliance carried him to 2000. His acceleration was something else. I read that Colin Hayes and Sir Patrick Hogan always rated Zabeel's acceleration and John Hawkes rated Occys acceleration as a young horse highly. If Lonhro can pass this down he is a chance. He'll get great mares so will have no excuse.

I'd love to see Danehill line mares sent to him that had genuine speed. Despite being by Occy I think he'll make it. Caulfield Guines day 2008 we'll see a Lonhro colt out of a Danehill mare win the Guineas.

Wait for the Lonhro's babies to step up to 1400-1600m
He never ran out a good 2000m, was a great miler and not much else.

 

[Captain_Knowall]

I was listening to the guy that owns Refuse the Dance (Efficient's mum) and he was saying how he's bred it with Stravinsky and Volksraad (speed influences) and the horses never made the track, and the Zabeel and Montjeu (Guillotine, trained by David Payne), bred on staying lines are the one's having the race track success...

This has absolutely nothing to do with Lonhro as a sire, but you can't really predict the sucess of a stallion purely based on his racetrack sucess. I think well bred horses generally make good stallions.... e.g Redoute's Choice, Flying Spur...

 

[Yaaablett]

Wait for the Lonhro's babies to step up to 1400-1600m
He never ran out a good 2000m, was a great miler and not much else.

I was listening to the guy that owns Refuse the Dance (Efficient's mum) and he was saying how he's bred it with Stravinsky and Volksraad (speed influences) and the horses never made the track, and the Zabeel and Montjeu (Guillotine, trained by David Payne), bred on staying lines are the one's having the race track success...

This has absolutely nothing to do with Lonhro as a sire, but you can't really predict the sucess of a stallion purely based on his racetrack sucess. I think well bred horses generally make good stallions.... e.g Redoute's Choice, Flying Spur...

Good stuff, I hope the thoughts and discussions continue and a few more get involved. My personal thoughts/reply for the last 2 posts.

To label Lonhro a miler and not much else is harsh. was agroup winner at 2, the most impressive Guineas winner I've seen and a multiple G1 winner at 2000m including that amazing Aust cup win. Yes he won a lot of G1's at 1400-1600, but was more than just a miler IMO. I believe his progeny will be versatile in that he'll get his share of speedy horses as well as middle distance winners. I agree his main distance will be 1300-1600.

To the Refuse The Dance progeny it may be a bit early to say that staying sires are her go. If the Stravinsky and Volksraad offspring had of run we may get more evidence to support a theory like that. Both those stallions have also produced quality staying horses as well. If I owned her though who would continually send her to Zabeel and maybe try Encosta De lago as well due to Guillotines obvious ability with EDL and Montjeu being by full brothers.

The racetrack success v/s pedigree in what makes a good sire is a huge discussion. Ideally they'd have both and all high fee 1st season sires do have both. The evidence suggests that a stallion with an outstanding recetrack record will get more of a go at stud than a stallion that was unraced or was hopeless but with a top notch pedigree. I use General Nediym as an example of the former and Nuclear Freeze as the other. General Nediym by Nediym has been given an opportunity and done well and Nuclear Freeze a full to Danehill has never really recieved any significant support. Rock of Cashel is a full brother to Rock of Gibraltar and is in Qld serving average mares at a fee of 1-3 K.

The complete package is conformation, pedigree, racetrack success and attitude. A stallion will not stand at a good fee initially without racetrack performance. Once the progeny hit the track supply and demand kicks in.

Keep your thoughts coming. Does not have to be about anything previously discussed. Anything to do with breeding, sales, pedigree query's whatever.

 

[the_fresh]

The thing I found with Lonhro was that he didn't get a hard ran 2000m.
He got a great 1800m & a soft 2000m.

His 2000m wins show that. look at the Australian Cup win.
The time was 2:03.67 Makybe Diva set a new track record 12 months later at 1:58.73.
Everytime he was beaten over 2000m they went quick, everytime he won over 2000m they walked.

I always thought he was unbeatable from 1300-1700, the only 2 times I did back him was the Guineas win and his beaten run in the Doncaster.

Breeding has more to do with the mare IMO than anything else. I still think he'll be a top 10 of miles sire in australia.

 

[go fullta]

i will tell you a sire that will leave a big impression on australian breeding..

statue of liberty...watch out for his 2 yr olds this season, doing great things in europe in the 2yr old rankings!!


my other favourite stallions include:

• dehere
• toy pindarri
• mookta
• flying spur
• monde bleu
• dolphin street
• keltrice
• belong to me

 

[Tim56]

The thing I found with Lonhro was that he didn't get a hard ran 2000m.
He got a great 1800m & a soft 2000m.

His 2000m wins show that. look at the Australian Cup win.
The time was 2:03.67 Makybe Diva set a new track record 12 months later at 1:58.73.
Everytime he was beaten over 2000m they went quick, everytime he won over 2000m they walked.

I always thought he was unbeatable from 1300-1700, the only 2 times I did back him was the Guineas win and his beaten run in the Doncaster.

Breeding has more to do with the mare IMO than anything else. I still think he'll be a top 10 of miles sire in australia.

Absolute rubbish. He got within two tenths of the track record at Caulfield over 2000m when winning the Caulfield Stakes.

When he was beaten at Randwick at his last start, it was because Grand Armee had an incredibly soft lead.

 

[the_fresh]

Absolute rubbish. He got within two tenths of the track record at Caulfield over 2000m when winning the Caulfield Stakes.

When he was beaten at Randwick at his last start, it was because Grand Armee had an incredibly soft lead.

* 2003 Caulfield Stakes he ran 2:02.30 on a dead track
* 2002 Mackinnon Stakes he ran 2:02.64 on a good track, thats now almost 4 seconds slower than the new track record
* 2002 Caulfield Stakes he ran 2:00.60 at his first try over the trip.
* 2003 Australian Cup he ran 2.01.67, almost 3 seconds slower than the new track record.

Ever heard the saying, "one hot day doesn't make a summer"? The fact is he got a soft 2000m.

I'm not bagging the horse, all I'm saying is out of his 4 2000 wins from 7 starts 1 was in quick time, the rest were very soft times @ WFA.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

I'm not bagging the horse, all I'm saying is out of his 4 2000 wins from 7 starts 1 was in quick time, the rest were very soft times @ WFA.

Unfortunately thats modern day WFA racing.
More often than not they virtually canter, & its a sprint home.
Rare to have genuine run races in this type of company.

Perhaps we do need another Vo.

 

[Lockyer24]

Good to see a thread like this on here as I have thought about starting one myself plenty of times.

I am an unabashed Zabeel fan - I think they have the best turn of foot for middle distancers and stayers although apparently he spits out a few duds and long distance/hurdlers, not to mention plenty that don't make it to the track. I backed Efficient and Maldivian from their very first start due to their breeding (although I didnt stick with the former).

I didnt pick up how good a sire Lion Hunter was til I saw Gold Edition in action, now I always back them up to 1200m. (They can jag a mid distance race but not worth the risk) Its a shame he has died, but there is still plenty kicking around doing well in the sprints.
I suggest though to only back his grey offspring, any who are not seem to battle as they must have inherited their mares dud abilities.

O'Reilly is my buzz sire at the minute - Master O'Reilly being the big one but Swick and O'Reilly's Clock have won multiple city races. I've also nabbed a few winners on debut including Code Black and Kingsford who are pushing up through the ranks. The key thing here though is they can sprint and stay. I'd be sending my broodmare here right now.

Can't wait for the Elvstroem 2YOS at the end of this year.

 

[go fullta]

i backed largo lad last start at bendigo because of its breeding!!

• encosta de lago - lady marion

former very good mare, and by the super sire and i knew it would have benefited from its 1st start!! also is in good hands...

 

[Yaaablett]

i will tell you a sire that will leave a big impression on australian breeding..

statue of liberty...watch out for his 2 yr olds this season, doing great things in europe in the 2yr old rankings!!


my other favourite stallions include:

• dehere
• toy pindarri
• mookta
• flying spur
• monde bleu
• dolphin street
• keltrice
• belong to me

The only thing I'd caution you on is the trend of new sires dominating overseas and flopping here. End Sweep, Giant's Causeway, Invincible Spirit, Woodman etc All have won titles or gone very close to it overseas yet been very ordinary here. Statue Of Liberty is an extremely well bred Storm Cat. The Storm Cats have largely been disappointing here. Hennessey was pretty handy and Johannesburg (by Hennessey) has made a bright start. Not many others have made an impact here.

See Lonhro had his first 2 yo winner last Saturday. Out of the well bred mare Faith Hill. I'd love to see some mares that produced good horses sired by Zabeel given to Lonhro.

 

[go fullta]

The only thing I'd caution you on is the trend of new sires dominating overseas and flopping here. End Sweep, Giant's Causeway, Invincible Spirit, Woodman etc All have won titles or gone very close to it overseas yet been very ordinary here. Statue Of Liberty is an extremely well bred Storm Cat. The Storm Cats have largely been disappointing here. Hennessey was pretty handy and Johannesburg (by Hennessey) has made a bright start. Not many others have made an impact here.

See Lonhro had his first 2 yo winner last Saturday. Out of the well bred mare Faith Hill. I'd love to see some mares that produced good horses sired by Zabeel given to Lonhro.

invincible spirit is going alright!! max hinton had one in the 2yr old on melb cup day out of sophie princess, that ran well, came 3rd, against the best breed stuff in the country!!

hennessy did well here...lilando, half hennessy, grand armee

what about distorted humour!! came over for here for 2 seasons, nearly all his horses won races: caprizzi strip,rinky dink, crystal wit, chiack, heavenly pun, fighting laila, like it is, larson, some are bent,haphazard, honest politician, quite a stir are all good class horses!!

your getting carried away about these shuttle stallions by bagging them, there is that many that shuttle out here, surely some of them are gunna be flops!!

i expect statue of liberty to get plenty of winners from his 1st crop!! what do you think of hold that tiger...very well bred,another son of storm cat and a 3/4 brother to hennessy.

lohnro will hold his own, but i dont think he has the potential to be the next flying spur, redoubts choice etc. although i did look at his bookings from last year, geez there was some nice mares that went to him

 

[Punter_22]

invincible spirit is going alright!! max hinton had one in the 2yr old on melb cup day out of sophie princess, that ran well, came 3rd, against the best breed stuff in the country!!

hennessy did well here...lilando, half hennessy, grand armee

what about distorted humour!! came over for here for 2 seasons, nearly all his horses won races: caprizzi strip,rinky dink, crystal wit, chiack, heavenly pun, fighting laila, like it is, larson, some are bent,haphazard, honest politician, quite a stir are all good class horses!!

your getting carried away about these shuttle stallions by bagging them, there is that many that shuttle out here, surely some of them are gunna be flops!!

i expect statue of liberty to get plenty of winners from his 1st crop!! what do you think of hold that tiger...very well bred,another son of storm cat and a 3/4 brother to hennessy.

lohnro will hold his own, but i dont think he has the potential to be the next flying spur, redoubts choice etc. although i did look at his bookings from last year, geez there was some nice mares that went to him

Invincible Spirit only had 87 live foals, (the majority from ordinary mares), in his first two crops here, so he was always going to struggle to make an impact. Granted, I still think he has only being fair at best.

I definitely agree with you in regards to Distorted Humor. Get ready for a son of his to come out here next breeding season and make a real impact.

Of the sires going around at the moment, Exceed And Excel has made a better start to his career than any other stallion ever to stand in the country. Two stakes winners from his first two runners and then a stakes placegetter with his fourth runner is phenomenal. And to sire the winners of the first three 2yo stakes races of the season is unbelievable. Of the older stallions, you can't go past O'Reilly. He is doing a brilliant job at the moment.

One other point, Encosta and Montjeu are brothers as was suggested on this thread earlier.

 

[Yaaablett]

Invincible Spirit only had 87 live foals, (the majority from ordinary mares), in his first two crops here, so he was always going to struggle to make an impact. Granted, I still think he has only being fair at best.

I definitely agree with you in regards to Distorted Humor. Get ready for a son of his to come out here next breeding season and make a real impact.

Of the sires going around at the moment, Exceed And Excel has made a better start to his career than any other stallion ever to stand in the country. Two stakes winners from his first two runners and then a stakes placegetter with his fourth runner is phenomenal. And to sire the winners of the first three 2yo stakes races of the season is unbelievable. Of the older stallions, you can't go past O'Reilly. He is doing a brilliant job at the moment.

One other point, Encosta and Montjeu are brothers as was suggested on this thread earlier.

Encosta De Lago and Montjeu are not brothers. EDL is by Fairy King and Montjeu is by Sadler's Wells. There dams are not related. Fairy King and Sadler's Wells are full brothers.

Lets be serious when we discuss shuttle sires. I wasnt bagging shuttle sires. It's hard to judge how they'll go here. I was pointing out that breeders have lost plenty banking on overseas results. My point was these gallopers have won or gone very close to winning sire honours overseas. Invincible Spirit may have even won the 2yo number of winners in Europe. His 1st crop here have not even remotely replicated that. All I was saying is be very careful when a new sire here has dominated overseas. It more often than not doesn't translate to Aust results. Fasliyev was another.

Our sires lists are dominated by colonial bred horses.

Distorted Humour was a handy sire here. Nothing more. Some of these shuttlers come here and stand for ridiculous fees and just dont deliver.

Back Lonhro, Flying Spur was mentioned. Flying Spur prior to his outstanding season was only regarded as a pretty good sire. His past year has elevated him to exceptional. I'd like to see him back it up. I think Lonhro can match his record.

Exceed and Excel I agree, almost unbelievable start! He himself was a good 2 year old, about a length or so of the top ones of his generation. At 3 he was outstanding. Plenty to look forward to.

 

[go fullta]

Encosta De Lago and Montjeu are not brothers. EDL is by Fairy King and Montjeu is by Sadler's Wells. There dams are not related. Fairy King and Sadler's Wells are full brothers.

montjeu is a good sire, but wasnt suited to australian mares. the cross between the speed mares and a staying stallion doesnt often work. thats the reason he is dominating in europe, because of the dam sides over there.

Lets be serious when we discuss shuttle sires. I wasnt bagging shuttle sires. It's hard to judge how they'll go here. I was pointing out that breeders have lost plenty banking on overseas results. My point was these gallopers have won or gone very close to winning sire honours overseas. Invincible Spirit may have even won the 2yo number of winners in Europe. His 1st crop here have not even remotely replicated that. All I was saying is be very careful when a new sire here has dominated overseas. It more often than not doesn't translate to Aust results. Fasliyev was another.

Our sires lists are dominated by colonial bred horses.
yeah i agree but its only the speed sires that dominate. young sires such as fastnet rock, stratum, california dane, danerich, snitzel, undoubtedly, bel danoro, untouchable will become good sires i reckon.

whereas i think young staying stallions like get sqaure, delzao, kempinsky, neillo, starcraft, diatribe (not that young), pendragon, natural blitz,lonhro, benicio will all struggle because there slow maturing dour types, that wont have early runners.

it is vital for stallions to get early winners, as breeders judge stallions by there 1st couple of crops. that is why these speed sires will get early winners, and then get better mares in the 3rd and 4th crops.

Distorted Humour was a handy sire here. Nothing more. Some of these shuttlers come here and stand for ridiculous fees and just dont deliver.
bit harsh on distorted humor. for the 2 seasons that he was out here, he would have only got crappy mares, but still he produced some very good horses. when he came over here, we was among the unknown, but when now he is dominating in america and is worth too much to come back to australia.

Back Lonhro, Flying Spur was mentioned. Flying Spur prior to his outstanding season was only regarded as a pretty good sire. His past year has elevated him to exceptional. I'd like to see him back it up. I think Lonhro can match his record.

Exceed and Excel I agree, almost unbelievable start! He himself was a good 2 year old, about a length or so of the top ones of his generation. At 3 he was outstanding. Plenty to look forward to.

i reckon that mookta is the most under rated stallion standing australia. he has had crappy mares all his life, yet he has still thrown good horses. for a gr1 winner who won the oakleigh plate and the newmarket, to stand at $1,700 is absolute bargain!! if he was in his 1st season at stud after doing that nowadays, he would be standing at about 40k+

 

[Punter_22]

One other point, Encosta and Montjeu are brothers as was suggested on this thread earlier.

Sorry that was meant to say Encosta and Montjeu are not brothers.

It is interesting to note that every single sire Fullta mentions as potential good sires are either sons of Danehill or grandsons of Danehill, best suited around the 1200m mark. It is hard to argue with you Fullta. Danehill-line stallions whose best trip was over 6-7 furlongs have been a raging success at stud, e.g Flying Spur, Danzero, Redoute's, Lion Hunter and now Exceed. Not many haven't made an impact in the breeding barn. Keeper is even doing a great job in New Zealand.

Add one more to the list however. Gonski!! Because of EI he has been Darley's only stallion in Victoria this year, so he will serve a massive book. I remember seeing him at the races one day and he is one of the best looking horses I have ever seen. Just a real powerhouse.

 

[go fullta]

Sorry that was meant to say Encosta and Montjeu are not brothers.

It is interesting to note that every single sire Fullta mentions as potential good sires are either sons of Danehill or grandsons of Danehill, best suited around the 1200m mark. It is hard to argue with you Fullta. Danehill-line stallions whose best trip was over 6-7 furlongs have been a raging success at stud, e.g Flying Spur, Danzero, Redoute's, Lion Hunter and now Exceed. Not many haven't made an impact in the breeding barn. Keeper is even doing a great job in New Zealand.

Add one more to the list however. Gonski!! Because of EI he has been Darley's only stallion in Victoria this year, so he will serve a massive book. I remember seeing him at the races one day and he is one of the best looking horses I have ever seen. Just a real powerhouse.

yeah i was actually going to add him, we never got too see the best off him which was dissapointing, he would have gone to be a star. it doesnt have this years coverings yet on studbook.

i had a look at danerichs bookings which include 107 mares. some good ones include: akiva, all black symphony, bella senorina (dam of si senor) crystal snip, golden gossamer (dam of magic tori) make a stand, and not that innocent!!

 

[Yaaablett]

This is getting good. Some great discussions!

My opinions again on a few points.

I said colonial breds dominated. They do. Not just speed sires either. The top sires list includes Zabeel, Pins, O'Reilly, Encosta De Lago (gets good stayers as well) Redoutes Choice (derby, oaks winners). All stand for 20K minimum with EDL 200+ and RC 300+.

On Montjeu, he stood in New Zealand didn't he? Plenty of staying mares there. Sadler's Wells (Montjeu' s sire) had a reputation of siring predominantly soft ground horses. Thats a bit harsh but has an element of truth. Maybe thats Montjeu's trait as well. Speed mares with staying sires works pretty well. Efficient and Lonhro spring straight to mind.

Starcraft will be a success, his owner Paul Makin will ensure he gets every chance. he has buying some exceptional mares for Starcraft. No excuses if he doesn't make it. Lonhro has started his career very well, with a few runners before xmas in Vic and a winner in Qld. I have no doubt his best 2 year olds are unraced twiddling their thumbs at Warwick Farm due to EI.

Danerich, California Dane, and Bel Danoro are going to have to do it the hard way. Anyone with a blue blood mare thats is suitable for a Danehill line stallion has far better options than these untried, over hyped, cotton wool sprinters.

Actually didn't mind Distorted Humour. His progeny all seemed to be tough. I stick by my claim that he was average here. To say he's dominating in America is a bit over the top, but he is going very well- Dirt sire???

Remember Unbridled's Song? Got Grey Song here but was an absolute disgrace as a sire. Sent home to the US he is a superstar, setting sales rings alight. Again he's a dirt sire. Just like Fu Peg! Fu Peg has some of the best blood you'll find and will get his share of good horses here but will never match the hype or his service fee.

 

[Yaaablett]

If I owned her though who would continually send her to Zabeel and maybe try Encosta De lago as well due to Guillotines obvious ability with EDL and Montjeu being by full brothers.
quote]

Sorry that was meant to say Encosta and Montjeu are not brothers.

Punter, just to clear it up! As you can see I said they were by full brothers which they are.

 

[Punter_22]

This is getting good. Some great discussions!

My opinions again on a few points.

I said colonial breds dominated. They do. Not just speed sires either. The top sires list includes Zabeel, Pins, O'Reilly, Encosta De Lago (gets good stayers as well) Redoutes Choice (derby, oaks winners). All stand for 20K minimum with EDL 200+ and RC 300+.

On Montjeu, he stood in New Zealand didn't he? Plenty of staying mares there. Sadler's Wells (Montjeu' s sire) had a reputation of siring predominantly soft ground horses. Thats a bit harsh but has an element of truth. Maybe thats Montjeu's trait as well. Speed mares with staying sires works pretty well. Efficient and Lonhro spring straight to mind.

Starcraft will be a success, his owner Paul Makin will ensure he gets every chance. he has buying some exceptional mares for Starcraft. No excuses if he doesn't make it. Lonhro has started his career very well, with a few runners before xmas in Vic and a winner in Qld. I have no doubt his best 2 year olds are unraced twiddling their thumbs at Warwick Farm due to EI.

Danerich, California Dane, and Bel Danoro are going to have to do it the hard way. Anyone with a blue blood mare thats is suitable for a Danehill line stallion has far better options than these untried, over hyped, cotton wool sprinters.

Actually didn't mind Distorted Humour. His progeny all seemed to be tough. I stick by my claim that he was average here. To say he's dominating in America is a bit over the top, but he is going very well- Dirt sire???

Remember Unbridled's Song? Got Grey Song here but was an absolute disgrace as a sire. Sent home to the US he is a superstar, setting sales rings alight. Again he's a dirt sire. Just like Fu Peg! Fu Peg has some of the best blood you'll find and will get his share of good horses here but will never match the hype or his service fee.

Did you see Fu Peg's service was slashed again for the coming breeding season in the US. I think he is down to $75,000 now after hitting $150,000. In his first two seasons at stud over there he had arguably the best books of mares ever assembled. He has made little impact however. He has managed to get a really good one in Roman Ruler, but most stallions are able to get one really good horse. The top stallions get multiple good horses. Fu Peg has been the same down here. He has only really had Haradasun. I wouldn't be going near here if I had a quality mare.

Distorted Humor will stand for $300,000 in the US this year. I think the Sheik bought his Gr 1 winning son Any Given Saturday recently, so he is the stallion I think we might see out here next year as I heard he had been retired straight away.

 

[Yaaablett]

Did you see Fu Peg's service was slashed again for the coming breeding season in the US. I think he is down to $75,000 now after hitting $150,000. In his first two seasons at stud over there he had arguably the best books of mares ever assembled. He has made little impact however. He has managed to get a really good one in Roman Ruler, but most stallions are able to get one really good horse. The top stallions get multiple good horses. Fu Peg has been the same down here. He has only really had Haradasun. I wouldn't be going near here if I had a quality mare.

Distorted Humor will stand for $300,000 in the US this year. I think the Sheik bought his Gr 1 winning son Any Given Saturday recently, so he is the stallion I think we might see out here next year as I heard he had been retired straight away.

The way Fusaichi Pegasus was promoted -he could not possibly live up to it. I heard a prominant Coolmore man say if FuPeg was not mentioned in the same breath as Danzig, Sadler's Wells and Storm Cat in 10 years time he'd be staggered! Yes, he well bred, yes he is a stunning looking horse, yes he had a great race record. Facts are he is a dirt horse and he passes on a trait of mental fizziness apparantly. Most of them are carzy and nightmares to handle. I even think he's at $55,000 this year. No thanks. His book shere were phenomenal. The only book Ive seento rival his was Carnegie a year or so back. They are 3 now and Villain is the pick, cant recall any others though!

Haradasun's a whole different conversation. Purchased for $44,000,000. What's he worth now 8M-12M. His half Elvstroem is miles in front and stands at $38,000. Haradasun would be half that if retired today.

 

[Punter_22]

The way Fusaichi Pegasus was promoted -he could not possibly live up to it. I heard a prominant Coolmore man say if FuPeg was not mentioned in the same breath as Danzig, Sadler's Wells and Storm Cat in 10 years time he'd be staggered! Yes, he well bred, yes he is a stunning looking horse, yes he had a great race record. Facts are he is a dirt horse and he passes on a trait of mental fizziness apparantly. Most of them are carzy and nightmares to handle. I even think he's at $55,000 this year. No thanks. His book shere were phenomenal. The only book Ive seento rival his was Carnegie a year or so back. They are 3 now and Villain is the pick, cant recall any others though!

Haradasun's a whole different conversation. Purchased for $44,000,000. What's he worth now 8M-12M. His half Elvstroem is miles in front and stands at $38,000. Haradasun would be half that if retired today.

With pretty much no top stallion propositions in Australia at the moment, I reckon that Coolmore and Tagg would be able to get $20-25 Mil for Haradasun if they decided they were going to cut their losses and sell him. It will never happen though, so we will never find out. There is no way they will ever make money on the horse now though, unless he becomes a Gr 1 winner in the Northern Hemisphere which at this stage looks highly unlikely. For Coolmore to get back what they paid for their share in him, he needed to be an $80,000+ service fee stallion. At the time they bought him, I think he was a $50,000 service fee stallion. Because of what he has done since they bought him, he is probably now only a $25,000 service fee stallion. I bet they try and stand him for around the $50,000 mark still. He will be advertised at that anyway and they will do some serious dealing on that price to get broodmare owners on board.

 

[Punter_22]

Yaablet, I just had a look at Carnegie's book of mares from Villain's year on stud book and don't think it was much at all. He only got 53 live foals that year and True Jewels being a Blue Diamond winner was clearly the pick of the mares. What other mares did you like that went to him?

 

[Yaaablett]

Yaablet, I just had a look at Carnegie's book of mares from Villain's year on stud book and don't think it was much at all. He only got 53 live foals that year and True Jewels being a Blue Diamond winner was clearly the pick of the mares. What other mares did you like that went to him?

I'll get back to you on that Punter. Musn't have been that year then. Year before side maybe? I was on Darley's mailing list and in a Carnegie promo they sent me the pedigree pages of all his offspring for that year. It was super impressive. I recall my thoughts were Carnegie would have no excuses now.