Science/Environment Explaining evolution and natural selection.

[Bennett.]

Not at all, trying to educate a naive person is a noble job i think

Please educate me then on the evolutionary purpose of the liver fluke

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Please educate me then on the evolutionary purpose of the liver fluke

As with all parasitic organisms, it's to live at the expense of the host organism. Probably one of the more cunning ways that organisms have evolved.

I often wonder though, why its in the interests of some parasitic organisms to eventually kill the host and therefore themselves/their descendants? Surely mutually beneficial symbiosis is better?

 

[Bennett.]

The life cycle of the liver fluke in sheep is so remarkable that it cannot be explained how it's sequences of transformation came about by a gradual change of small mutations.

 

[Long Live HFC]

hahahahahaha. so, everything on the planet evolved except the liver fluke, which was put here by god. impressive achievement.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The life cycle of the liver fluke in sheep is so remarkable that it cannot be explained how it's sequences of transformation came about by a gradual change of small mutations.

Can't yet be explained, you mean. They're working on it by way of the liver fluke's effect on different animals...

http://www.nrri.umn.edu/news/liver_fluke.htm

Moose are in steep decline in northeastern Minnesota and there are a lot of possible causes. One possibility is that Giant Liver Fluke (Fascioloides magma) are also using moose as hosts, weakening their livers and making them susceptible to other stressors. But moose are a dead end road for the liver fluke — their life cycle is stopped once they get to the liver. In deer, however, the parasitic worms live their full cycle by producing eggs and infecting snails. Vannatta is working to understand the extent of fluke infections in a specific population of deer so he can zero in on what plants the snails are associated with that the deer are also eating. It’s where the deer and moose interact that flukes can impact moose populations.

"Right now, we don’t have a great idea of what snail it is and there are about 16 snail species that are potential hosts," he explained. "We also don’t know which plants are associated with the snails."

Slowing his progress even more, the previous research on these infected snails — and there’s not a lot — is just plain confusing. Different taxonomists have given different names to the same snail species; as many as eight names. "So I have to sort through all this and decide which taxonomic reference to follow," said Vannatta. "It turned into a mess pretty quickly."

Luckily, he’s getting enthusiastic assistance in acquiring deer livers from hunters within the city limits of Duluth. He’s received 48 livers in one season and is hoping for even more in the next season to give him a bigger sample size. So far, the fluke is present in about 35 percent of Duluth deer. Knowing that Giant Liver Fluke are able to complete their lifecycle within the City of Duluth gives Vannatta a microcosm to work within as he searches for the culprit snails and plants hosting the parasite...

 

[Procrastinator35]

If evolution happens to every living entity....At what point should we expect Richmond, Port, Freo & Collingwood supporters to die out?

 

[Total Power]

If evolution happens to every living entity....At what point should we expect Richmond, Port, Freo & Collingwood supporters to die out?

Port? huh? we can sustain ourselves with the 5th largest home crowd in the AFL. Speak about North

 

[Bennett.]

hahahahahaha. so, everything on the planet evolved except the liver fluke, which was put here by god. impressive achievement.

Almost as impressive as your ability to miss the point.

 

[Pie eyed]

Please educate me then on the evolutionary purpose of the liver fluke

It's adapted to survive in the liver of host animals. It is off the hard work of the host, but at a cost to the host, it can cause harm, even kill the host
What else do you need to know?
An analogy would be it's to livestock what organised religion is to society.

In any case read the full explanation at the link below...and be educated.... (ps. Why not learn how to use Google, you treat it like it's Satan.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577557/

Evolutionary Origins, Diversification, and Biogeography of Liver Flukes (Digenea, Fasciolidae)

Fasciolid flukes are among the largest and best known digenetic trematodes and have considerable historical and veterinary significance. Fasciola hepatica is commonly implicated in causing disease in humans.

PPS. I know you won't read the link because you have no intention of discovery the facts, you're just a arse who posts idiotic, un supportable statements with no other motive than to cast your narrow view to the wind.

 

[Bennett.]

It's adapted to survive in the liver of host animals. It is off the hard work of the host, but at a cost to the host, it can cause harm, even kill the host
What else do you need to know?
An analogy would be it's to livestock what organised religion is to society.

In any case read the full explanation at the link below...and be educated.... (ps. Why not learn how to use Google, you treat it like it's Satan.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577557/





PPS. I know you won't read the link because you have no intention of discovery the facts, you're just a arse who posts idiotic, un supportable statements with no other motive than to cast your narrow view to the wind.

Ad hom's aside, I find it interesting that leading parasitologist Asa Chandler admitted: "It would be difficult, if not impossible, to explain, step by step, the details of the processes of evolution by which some of the highly specialised parasites reached their present condition."


Btw, didn't get that quote from Google sorry

 

[CM86]

Ad hom's aside, I find it interesting that leading parasitologist Asa Chandler admitted: "It would be difficult, if not impossible, to explain, step by step, the details of the processes of evolution by which some of the highly specialised parasites reached their present condition."


Btw, didn't get that quote from Google sorry

I'm sure you use Bing. Google is too radical for you.

Also, just everything about your posts screams copy paste. And I doubt you find it interesting, because you clearly have nfi about any of it.

"Leading parasitologist" lel.
You've never read the book.
And the book was first published in 1918... of which it seems to be the 10th edition that this quote has come from sans context.

"I find it interesting" hahahaha.

 

[Lester Burnham]

It's adapted to survive in the liver of host animals. It is off the hard work of the host, but at a cost to the host, it can cause harm, even kill the host
What else do you need to know?
An analogy would be it's to livestock what organised religion is to society.

In any case read the full explanation at the link below...and be educated.... (ps. Why not learn how to use Google, you treat it like it's Satan.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577557/

PPS. I know you won't read the link because you have no intention of discovery the facts, you're just a arse who posts idiotic, un supportable statements with no other motive than to cast your narrow view to the wind.

This paper is possibly more relevant.

Abstract
Links between parasites and food webs are evolutionarily ancient but dynamic: life history theory provides insights into helminth complex life cycle origins. Most adult helminths benefit by sexual reproduction in vertebrates, often high up food chains, but direct infection is commonly constrained by a trophic vacuum between free-living propagules and definitive hosts. Intermediate hosts fill this vacuum, facilitating transmission to definitive hosts. The central question concerns why sexual reproduction, and sometimes even larval growth, is suppressed in intermediate hosts, favouring growth arrest at larval maturity in intermediate hosts and reproductive suppression until transmission to definitive hosts? Increased longevity and higher growth in definitive hosts can generate selection for larger parasite body size and higher fecundity at sexual maturity. Life cycle length is increased by two evolutionary mechanisms, upward and downward incorporation, allowing simple (one-host) cycles to become complex (multihost). In downward incorporation, an intermediate host is added below the definitive host: models suggest that downward incorporation probably evolves only after ecological or evolutionary perturbations create a trophic vacuum. In upward incorporation, a new definitive host is added above the original definitive host, which subsequently becomes an intermediate host, again maintained by the trophic vacuum: theory suggests that this is plausible even under constant ecological/evolutionary conditions. The final cycle is similar irrespective of its origin (upward or downward). Insights about host incorporation are best gained by linking comparative phylogenetic analyses (describing evolutionary history) with evolutionary models (examining selective forces). Ascent of host trophic levels and evolution of optimal host taxa ranges are discussed.​

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jeb.12575/full

 

[Long Live HFC]

Almost as impressive as your ability to miss the point.

i totally understood the amount of dumb you were invoking. it's you who don't seem to be aware this exact debate was lost in court a decade ago; your ilk has just moved from the flagellum to the liver fluke, lol.

not concerned by the fact that every single gap in knowledge that has eventually been filled has not contained any magic, you'll just move from the liver fluke to something else next. a true charlatan

 

[Bennett.]

I'm sure you use Bing. Google is too radical for you.

Also, just everything about your posts screams copy paste. And I doubt you find it interesting, because you clearly have nfi about any of it.

"Leading parasitologist" lel.
You've never read the book.
And the book was first published in 1918... of which it seems to be the 10th edition that this quote has come from sans context.

"I find it interesting" hahahaha.

yes. Interesting. as in, designed to generate discussion, which you are evidently incapable of.

 

[Bennett.]

i totally understood the amount of dumb you were invoking. it's you who don't seem to be aware this exact debate was lost in court a decade ago; your ilk has just moved from the flagellum to the liver fluke, lol.

not concerned by the fact that every single gap in knowledge that has eventually been filled has not contained any magic, you'll just move from the liver fluke to something else next. a true charlatan

ok so what was my point genius?

 

[Long Live HFC]

The life cycle of the liver fluke in sheep is so remarkable that it cannot be explained how it's sequences of transformation came about by a gradual change of small mutations.

ok so what was my point genius?

either it was an irreducible complexity-like point or you write like shit.

 

[CM86]

yes. Interesting. as in, designed to generate discussion, which you are evidently incapable of.

Can't wait to see where you intend to take that discussion of the quote of Asa Chandler.
Or even why you listed her as "leading parasitologist".

Haha.

Prove me wrong. Show your deep understanding of the quote from the 10th edition of a book from nearly 100 years ago.

 

[Total Power]

Can't wait to see where you intend to take that discussion of the quote of Asa Chandler.
Or even why you listed her as "leading parasitologist".

Haha.

Prove me wrong. Show your deep understanding of the quote from the 10th edition of a book from nearly 100 years ago.

Careful there, he supports Gods killing for male prisoners (children) and taking of women prisoners as sex slaves. The logic was : it was safe to kill the male children prisoners as they can turn against you when they grow up. You are discussing logic and science with him

 

[Pie eyed]

This paper is possibly more relevant.

Abstract
Links between parasites and food webs are evolutionarily ancient but dynamic: life history theory provides insights into helminth complex life cycle origins. Most adult helminths benefit by sexual reproduction in vertebrates, often high up food chains, but direct infection is commonly constrained by a trophic vacuum between free-living propagules and definitive hosts. Intermediate hosts fill this vacuum, facilitating transmission to definitive hosts. The central question concerns why sexual reproduction, and sometimes even larval growth, is suppressed in intermediate hosts, favouring growth arrest at larval maturity in intermediate hosts and reproductive suppression until transmission to definitive hosts? Increased longevity and higher growth in definitive hosts can generate selection for larger parasite body size and higher fecundity at sexual maturity. Life cycle length is increased by two evolutionary mechanisms, upward and downward incorporation, allowing simple (one-host) cycles to become complex (multihost). In downward incorporation, an intermediate host is added below the definitive host: models suggest that downward incorporation probably evolves only after ecological or evolutionary perturbations create a trophic vacuum. In upward incorporation, a new definitive host is added above the original definitive host, which subsequently becomes an intermediate host, again maintained by the trophic vacuum: theory suggests that this is plausible even under constant ecological/evolutionary conditions. The final cycle is similar irrespective of its origin (upward or downward). Insights about host incorporation are best gained by linking comparative phylogenetic analyses (describing evolutionary history) with evolutionary models (examining selective forces). Ascent of host trophic levels and evolution of optimal host taxa ranges are discussed.​

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jeb.12575/full

Regardless, Spartanwa asked for something a small child could find in 30 seconds.....as usual manufacturing issues where there are none for the mildly educated.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Please educate me then on the evolutionary purpose of the liver fluke

I'll educate you and tell that the liver fluke, like other organisms, doesn't have an evolutionary purpose. Certain traits, via their genes, are selected for on the basis of their fitness to survive and reproduce in the environment that they inhabit.

Please educate us on the non-evolutionary purpose of the liver fluke.

 

[Pie eyed]

God hates liver too.
At least we have that in common.

 

[Bennett.]

Careful there, he supports Gods killing for male prisoners (children) and taking of women prisoners as sex slaves. The logic was : it was safe to kill the male children prisoners as they can turn against you when they grow up. You are discussing logic and science with him

You really need some help my man

 

[Bennett.]

The point was, and I'll type this slow if you like, that an organism like the liver fluke in sheep and its extraordinary life creates a difficulty to evolutionary theory due to the fact that the remarkable stages in its life really can't have happened by gradual changes.

 

[CM86]

The point was, and I'll type this slow if you like, that an organism like the liver fluke in sheep and its extraordinary life creates a difficulty to evolutionary theory due to the fact that the remarkable stages in its life really can't have happened by gradual changes.

In general I'd question how extraordinary the life of the liver fluke could be in comparison to their own.

But in your case... it really doesn't surprise me.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You really need some help my man

If you really wish to mount a concerted case against the theory spartwana, then the key to it, lies in the catch-all & self-affirming concepts of 'Evolution' & 'natural-selection'.....Which become substitutes in the underlying philosophy of the theory, for the concepts of change & teleology.

In plain English....These concepts explain nothing!....They are ontological neutral terms.