Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011 (Part 1)

[Ben the Gooner]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Made a couple of different trades this week. Would be interested to hear what everyone thinks of these two:

Brad Green --> Alex Johnson
Nick Riewoldt --> Paul Chapman

Johnson is part of a long term plan I have.

 

[Gghippo]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Made a couple of different trades this week. Would be interested to hear what everyone thinks of these two:

Brad Green --> Alex Johnson
Nick Riewoldt --> Paul Chapman

Johnson is part of a long term plan I have.

I'm surprised - actually shocked. In isolation I don't think these are good trades, as I don't see an immediate increase in point/week from these trades. However, you have played the game for a number of years and obviously have a plan in mind that could justify the decisions. I just can't see the logic.

For these trades to pay off you are relying on the Saints to be a bottom 8 side and for Brad Green to continue underperforming for the remainder of the season. Going on past seasons performances neither of these will happen.

I can understand your frustrations with Green. But I think DT coaches are being a bit harsh on Riewoldt, last week he was KO'd and didn't play the last quarter. He will still average at least 85+ for the remainder of the season regardless of where the Saints finish up. That will be a higher average than Knights.

It will be interesting to see what you plan to do with the pocketed $125k in the coming weeks.

Also, I'm not sold on Johnson's job security.

As for Chapman, that's a no brainer, great call bringing him in early but I don't think it should have been at Riewoldt's expense.

For your sake, I hope if works out for you, but on face value looks very risky so early in the season.

 

[Buddyman]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Care to share?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Yeah, some great points there Gghippo.

First off, Green is already on my bench. My forwardline before trading was:

Fyfe, Franklin, Johnson, Harvey, Knights, Darling, Riewoldt (Green, Matera, Richardson).

At the very worst, Green/Darling was a coin toss. Meanwhile, Darling is heading in one direction pricewise, and Green in the other. $328,800 is far too much cash to have sitting idly on the bench, scoring 60ppg. So I treated Green as a cash cow and downgraded.

Johnson actually convinced me by being selected immediately this week. He's obviously seen to be important if he's coming straight back in off an injury. Plus his DPP will be important.

Riewoldt I'm treating like a reverse cashcow. Everyone who doesn't have Riewoldt will be able to pick him up cheap in a couple of weeks (especially if he takes a couple of weeks to shake off his concussion - there was a lot of discussion on that topic at FFC after Selwood's hit). I'm now able to trade Matera to Roo before the Rd 9 bye at minimal cost.

Plus I have cash to help me get a superpremium in next week.

Unorthodox, yes, but I'm ranked almost 9000th. I need something

 

[Gghippo]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Fair call - Personally I would have looked at upgrading Pittard to Selwood or even Chapman to get the DPP link with Fyfe instead of trading out Riewoldt. But there is merit in your reverse cash cow plan.

Word of warning for what it's worth - don't get fixated on making the DPP link work with Gilbert or Murphy because you could potentially miss out on better trade options in say a Duffield, Broughton or Mackie, because you feel you need to justify the original trade by bringing in a DPP player.

Good luck.

 

[Jolldo87]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Chaplin on 69 at half time. m0nty would be pretty happy right now.

 

[Seldom Seen Kid]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Chaplin 69 points to half time...Monty's pick up could prove to be inspired

Edit - Jolldo, great minds

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Fair call - Personally I would have have looked at upgrading Pittard to Selwood or even Chapman to get the DPP link with Fyfe instead of trading out Riewoldt. But there is merit in your reverse cash cow plan.

Word of warning for what it's worth - don't get fixated on making the DPP link work with Gilbert or Murphy because you could potentially miss out on better trade options in say a Duffield, Broughton or Mackie, because you feel you need to justify the original trade by bringing in a DPP player.

Good luck.

One week at a time.

Fair call on the DPP, but Duff and Broughton have already scared me off with the new Freo gameplan. There's enough rookies back there to pick up a Mackie/Enright/Gram type when I can as well.

 

[Stubz]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Duigan --> L.Thompson
Liberatore --> Iles

Cash remaining after trades: $210,500

The two trades I made this week and the purpose of them speak for themselves but I'll go ahead and explain the rationale behind them. Basically I'm intending on doing upgrades in the future and for this to happen I need to stockpile cash. The two reasons I didn't upgrade this week was because (1) there were two decent downgrades (L.Thompson/Iles) I felt I needed to get as this was pretty much the last opportunity to get the. (2) I couldn't really do any upgrades I was comfortable with this week due to one downgrade not being enough to afford any decent premiums in any position.

Duigan --> L.Thompson
Before finding out Hibberd wasn't playing this week I was under the assumption he would be and I was 50-50 in regards to downgrading to L.Thompson or not downgrading him. Once I found out Hibberd had been dropped the decision became ridiculously easy for obvious reasons as I needed to bring in a DEF rookie for Duigan and really L.Thompson is the only option that really appeals to me. Although its not ideal I'm bringing L.Thompson after he burst his bubble this is actually the first time I've ever brought in a rookie that has already had his first price rise.

The reasoning behind me bringing him in was:

- I am starting two DEF rookies (this doesn't take into account byes/suspension/injuries/omissions etc.) and I don't have Heppell. So basically I feel like I need another solid scoring DEF rookie option as I don't want to be forced into starting Toy or a future DEF rookie that I might get.

- I have Coad who still needs to be traded out at some point, hence it makes sense for my team to bring him in over another team that doesn't have Coad

- I don't know when I will be bringing in another premium DEF, it may be next week, it may be a week after that, I will cross this bridge when I come to it, hence this is why I need two make sure I have solid scoring options in D7/D8

- He has a score of 92 DT that will be in his rolling average for two weeks, guaranteed to make a reasonable amount of money if he needs to be traded out somewhere along the way

- His current price is only 134k which is somewhere around what Heppell started off at so he is really not that expensive if you look at it that way. He is also actually underpriced because of starting slow which could have been due to finding his feet at AFL level

- P.Davis gone for the season and Otten out for 1-3 weeks plus probably SANFL, I'd consider both of these player's injuries very good for L.Thompson's job security/scoring potential. This information was not known until after last week's lockout. The other thing I believe is L.Thompson will get a fair amount of disposals at CHB much like Bock did due to the Adelaide game style were they switch and chip it around a lot. I also think no Bock/McLeod/Goodwin/Edwards from last year's side will works in his favor as well as there are less rebounding options coming out of defence especially if Johncock is sat on each week which I expect him to be.

Liberatore --> Iles
It wouldn't really make sense if I didn't bring Iles in considered I was one of few that started with him this year. I'm picking Iles for the exact same reasons I picked Curnow/Coad from the very start, both of whom are/were destined for great things. I'm also intending on doing a few upgrades and hence someone needs to get the chop and given Liberatore is out of the WB side and has a relatively high BE of 37 he is the most logical choice.

 

[dylan123]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

But I think DT coaches are being a bit harsh on Riewoldt, last week he was KO'd and didn't play the last quarter. He will still average at least 85+ for the remainder of the season regardless of where the Saints finish up. That will be a higher average than Knights.

Agreed on that, not sure how many traded Riewoldt, pretty brave/risky move which could pay off but I think the chances would be fairly low personally.

 

[favourites]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Solid reasoning Stubz, I take it without doing the exact sums but you didn't have enough to upgrade him with the Iles downgrade.

 

[Gghippo]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Duigan --> L.Thompson
Liberatore --> Iles

Cash remaining after trades: $210,500

The two trades I made this week and the purpose of them speak for themselves

Ahh... the luxury of being in the top 500

Had you not needed to traded out Iles earlier for McKenzie, would have you considered bringing in Wallis this week to generate cash?

 

[Stubz]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Solid reasoning Stubz, I take it without doing the exact sums but you didn't have enough to upgrade him with the Iles downgrade.

Pretty much it was pretty much roughly 345K to spend on a premium defender for Duigan. The issue was if I brought in a premium defender it would stifle my ability to bring in a MID or FWD premium the following week. The reason being is most of the MID/FWD premiums require pretty much two downgrades as opposed to one downgrade like the DEF premiums usually do.

 

[Stubz]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Ahh... the luxury of being in the top 500

Had you not needed to traded out Iles earlier for McKenzie, would have you considered bringing in Wallis this week to generate cash?

If your referring to downgrading Liberatore to Wallis then the answer is yes. He would have been pretty much the only MID downgrade option so it would make sense to choose him.

I think what WBD might do is a bit of a switch with Liberatore/Wallis i.e. if one gets games the other doesn't. I can't see any easy way of playing both Liberatore/Wallis in the same side because like Griffen/Cooney/Boyd/Cross (more so Boyd/Cross) they are pretty much one dimensional midfielders. Liberatore/Wallis pretty much need to be in the guts and its not really possible to do this when you got guys like Boyd/Cross who can only play in the guts, you got guys like Griffen/Cooney and co. who demand to be played in the centre as well for obvious reasons. This was the main reason Liberatore scored so well because he was played only in the guts and thus was close to the ball and could rack up tackles/disposals. I would not be surprised if Wallis plays a similar role to what Liberatore and score just as well.

So basically I traded out Liberatore because I thought (rightly or wrongly) that he had run his race not only from a fitness/form point of view but also structually, I was trading him out regardless of whether or not he got a game so I was a bit annoyed when I found out he wouldn't play this week. There are question marks of him not only getting back into the side (how long injured, come back through VFL, even in best 22 etc.), but then concerns about him being the sub/or get subbed when he comes back. The other issue is I think Liberatore's scoring potential would inevitably drop off due to being a first year players without that much of a mature body.

 

[favourites]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Wallis played as a small fwd last week. Basically took the role of a Higgins/Gia. Spent time as a defensive fwd on Maxwell and at times smashed him.

Still not sold he is in the best 22 and has plenty of work to keep his spot. Iles was the only pick out of those two imo. But I thought a similar thing with Thompson last week, but things change so quickly. (Davis injury)

 

[Stubz]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Wallis played as a small fwd last week. Basically took the role of a Higgins/Gia. Spent time as a defensive fwd on Maxwell and at times smashed him.

Still not sold he is in the best 22 and has plenty of work to keep his spot. Iles was the only pick out of those two imo. But I thought a similar thing with Thompson last week, but things change so quickly. (Davis injury)

True but my gut feel makes me think it was more because of the injuries (i.e. Higgin/Gia) and the fact Liberatore was in the side as well. I would be surprised to see Wallis used as a small forward when Gia/Higgins come back and if Liberatore is not in the side given he played almost exclusively as a MID as a junior and its his natural role. With that being said it wouldn't surprise me to see Wallis played as a small forward because coaches have been known to play players out of position rightly or wrongly, i.e. Hardwick/Conca.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Wallis played as a small fwd last week. Basically took the role of a Higgins/Gia. Spent time as a defensive fwd on Maxwell and at times smashed him.

Still not sold he is in the best 22 and has plenty of work to keep his spot. Iles was the only pick out of those two imo. But I thought a similar thing with Thompson last week, but things change so quickly. (Davis injury)

Iles has been far from impressive and butchers it a bit. He too could have a tough job maintaining his spot.

 

[yogibbear]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Iles has been far from impressive and butchers it a bit. He too could have a tough job maintaining his spot.

Strongly disagree. If you didn't get on him you are missing out on what is likely the best JS midfield rookie downgrade that we get for the entire year. With byes throughout the entire season, getting on him is very important as it means you can upgrade your gun midfield rookies without worrying about who now becomes your regular sub for byes.

 

[Tom12]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

I have to agree, Iles is guy with a hardened body in a side that kills for players with experience. Think he'll take a bit of time to get up and running but the way the entire GC side is playing, their ball use pinned down on one player isn't really a factor.

Can't see him being dropped, not for a while anyway with a rest early in the season after a few injury problems in the pre-season. Good pick for anyone who traded him in, as a sub for your premiums as yogi said if not as a potential cash cow.

 

[Ball Hog]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Duigan --> L.Thompson
Liberatore --> Iles

Cash remaining after trades: $210,500

I did the exact same trades this week.

I was wondering whether the Famous Coaches are more willing to bring in rookies who have increased in price this year due to the extra trades? I know Ausyid and BTG brought in Smith above his starting price and I'm sure they'd be happy with his production even though they paid extra.

You get less cash with these trades but you get more information on the rookies JS and scoring potential which can be crucial. It was definitely the case with Luke Thompson last week.

 

[Ball Hog]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Strongly disagree. If you didn't get on him you are missing out on what is likely the best JS midfield rookie downgrade that we get for the entire year. With byes throughout the entire season, getting on him is very important as it means you can upgrade your gun midfield rookies without worrying about who now becomes your regular sub for byes.

I have to agree, Iles is guy with a hardened body in a side that kills for players with experience. Think he'll take a bit of time to get up and running but the way the entire GC side is playing, their ball use pinned down on one player isn't really a factor.

Can't see him being dropped, not for a while anyway with a rest early in the season after a few injury problems in the pre-season. Good pick for anyone who traded him in, as a sub for your premiums as yogi said if not as a potential cash cow.

Definitely agree with this, I think McKenna is more likely to rest/drop the teenagers before guys like Stanley, Iles who have some extra experience. I don't think Iles has exceptional scoring potential but the job security he has, I personally rate as vital. It was good to see him kick a couple of opportunistic goals last week too.

Just as a side note, Stubz now has 4 Gold Coast midfielders and 3 defenders, it will be very interesting to see how he trades over the next 2 rounds. I must say I am quite jealous of his bench depth at the moment, no Richardson or Prestia as dead weight and instead McKenzie, Krakouer etc.

 

[thebaxters]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Harris>Iles
Duigan>Duffield

As several have mentioned, Iles is a mature club B&F winner, will play if fit. Harris about topped out, and actually avging about 10 ppg less than I expected. Thought about trading out Bewick or Prestia instead, but didn't want too many Suns benchies come next bye, plus both these guys have money to make when they come back.

Duigan likely to struggle to make BE this week, and my backline is in need of more best 22 players. I won't lie, Enright would have been my target if I had a spare 40K, but Duff was the guy I've gone to. Reasons? Better role last week, Hayden back soon should see Duff released, showed promising scoring, and TBH, a BAC capable of avg 80 ppg for 300K is a good get.

 

[Cat for Life]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Did You have enough for rawlings bax?

 

[dylan123]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

Harris>Iles
Duigan>Duffield

As several have mentioned, Iles is a mature club B&F winner, will play if fit. Harris about topped out, and actually avging about 10 ppg less than I expected. Thought about trading out Bewick or Prestia instead, but didn't want too many Suns benchies come next bye, plus both these guys have money to make when they come back.

Bar his 09 season where he only played 10 games (he averaged 66 that year) he hadn't averaged under 75 DT since 2005 so why were you expecting him to average about 65 when for a solid chunk of his career he had averaged about 75 odd (which is what he currently averages)? According to FF Genie, Harris's 'real price difference' is $74,900 so he still does have a bit of money to make so I wouldn't really say he is just about topped out (but I guess that's if you expect the 65 average not the 75 which he is averaging).

Duigan likely to struggle to make BE this week, and my backline is in need of more best 22 players. I won't lie, Enright would have been my target if I had a spare 40K, but Duff was the guy I've gone to. Reasons? Better role last week, Hayden back soon should see Duff released, showed promising scoring, and TBH, a BAC capable of avg 80 ppg for 300K is a good get.

Considering Duffield's breakeeven is 94 this week, were you tempted to wait a week on this trade just to see how he performs again to make sure upgrading Duigan to Duffield would be the correct move (although you are expecting Hayden to be the one to improve his scores once he comes back)?

 

[footylover18]

Re: Famous DT Coaches Thread 2011

If Bax likes Duff, and he obviously does given that he brought him in, I don't see the point of waiting. Ok, so Duff has a BE of 94, if he gets say 80, what does he go down? 5k? 10k? Just take the points. I'm not really a proponent of squeezing each and every dollar out of each player. The "real price" is a bit misleading in the sense that it will take quite a while for the player to get there, ie they'll make like 5k a week for several more weeks to reach their peak price. I dont really wait for the end of those minimal price increases. Once a player isn't going to be making 20k+ each week anymore, i'm happy to trade them out.