Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[fleabitten]

Remember when we had a thread on men's issues?

Not really.

And no one posted in it?

But a thread on feminism... I think this is the 2nd or 3rd thread - woah - pages and pages.


But it's *not* about bitching about women

spare me

domus was talking about feminism. This is the right thread. In discussing feminism, he compared some issues that effect women to some issues that effect men and noted the discrepancy in the funding and publicity they receive.

Comments like "poor men" or "wow you guys really post a lot in this thread" make it obvious that you can't actually counter the arguments he was making.

 

[fleabitten]

i was very interested to see that 95% of separating couples sort it out by themselves, yet when one comes onto BF, crickey, every man and his dog has injustices reeking through. This strikes me as disproportionate -that so many on here have such concerns, yet out there in real life people are managing break ups pretty well. So I have to wonder about that discrepancy, don't you?

Obviously people who are aggrieved by the system will be more vocal than those that are not. And 5% going to family court doesn't mean that the other 95% are amicable separations where everything got settled fairly. Many people can't afford to go to Family Court, especially when they feel that they will get shafted in the end anyway.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Complaining about or being against feminism often gets you labelled as hating women, when that couldn't be further from the truth as there are legitiment problems with their current day philosophy.

Things like the gender pay gap that get put out, what seems weekly, is nothing but poor math deleived by people who misrepresent statistics to drive their agenda.

If someone stands by these numbers and contribute them to the patriarchy, any argument made by that person is rendered invalid.

I can't find a survey for Australia, but in the UK, only 9% of women identify as feminists while two thirds of all people, men and women, believe in gender equality.

If feminism is only about the equality of rights and opportunity of the sexes/women, then count me as a feminist. But it is not that, and hasn't been for some time.







These videos are of Christina Hoff Sommers. A feminist, who still considers her self a feminist, but is advocating against the 3rd wave because it is inherently focused man hating. She calls it "the war against boys."

She was a philosophy lecturer and taught gender studies.

 

[romeohwho]

Complaining about or being against feminism often gets you labelled as hating women, when that couldn't be further from the truth as there are legitiment problems with their current day philosophy.

Things like the gender pay gap that get put out, what seems weekly, is nothing but poor math deleived by people who misrepresent statistics to drive their agenda.

If someone stands by these numbers and contribute them to the patriarchy, any argument made by that person is rendered invalid.

I can't find a survey for Australia, but in the UK, only 9% of women identify as feminists while two thirds of all people, men and women, believe in gender equality.

If feminism is only about the equality of rights and opportunity of the sexes/women, then count me as a feminist. But it is not that, and hasn't been for some time.







These videos are of Christina Hoff Sommers. A feminist, who still considers her self a feminist, but is advocating against the 3rd wave because it is inherently focused man hating. She calls it "the war against boys."

She is a was a philosophy lecturer and taught gender studies.

Yep. But re your survey from the UK -surely gender equality is the definition of feminism, as far as women are concerned. So not really getting that.

 

[romeohwho]

Obviously people who are aggrieved by the system will be more vocal than those that are not. And 5% going to family court doesn't mean that the other 95% are amicable separations where everything got settled fairly. Many people can't afford to go to Family Court, especially when they feel that they will get shafted in the end anyway.

But why would they feel like they will get shafted? I don't see where you'd get that view. The judge presumably has expertise and refers to a variety of sources involved in a family's life when making a decision. It's not simply a matter of believing the mother's 'false accusations' is it. And if the mother has been the one to take leave from the job and stay home, do the school pick ups.... it is difficult to see how changing that would benefit anyone.

 

[Always Ballin]

I'm a feminist because there are certain inalienable human rights exclusive to woman and their biological uniqueness that are legislatively infringed upon.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Yep. But re your survey from the UK -surely gender equality is the definition of feminism, as far as women are concerned. So not really getting that.

It's the strict definition, yes.

So what that survey found, was women and the majority of people, want equality of the sexes. They don't want to be labelled as feminists because they don't believe that is what the movement now stands for.

It means that 91% of British females surveryed don't believe feminism is about equality of the sexes.

 

[romeohwho]

It's the strict definition, yes.

So what that survey found, was women and the majority of people, want equality of the sexes. They don't want to be labelled as feminists because they don't believe that is what the movement now stands for.

It means that 91% of British females surveryed don't believe feminism is about equality of the sexes.

Yep, which is unfortunate because am pretty sure the rad fems are in a significant minority. I don't imagine that most people who want equality have it in for men. Fair bit of fake news I suspect.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Yep, which is unfortunate because am pretty sure the rad fems are in a significant minority. I don't imagine that most people who want equality have it in for men. Fair bit of fake news I suspect.

No doubt. I don't think anyone will argue that the rad fems are a majority. They are clearly the loudest though, and they drive the majority of the feminist narrative. Some of which, i agree with. Some i really really don't.

The women's March this year has an event organisation thingo on Facebook. I had a look at the msg board. Some women were saying ridiculous things like all men should be castrated to stop rapes, all men are rapists and death to all men. Some women pulled them up about it for not being helpful or right, but not many.

 

[fleabitten]

But why would they feel like they will get shafted? I don't see where you'd get that view.

Lots of people mistrust the courts in general and the Family Court especially. Many believe they heavily favour women. You're pleading ignorance of the existence of significant numbers of these people?

The judge presumably has expertise and refers to a variety of sources involved in a family's life when making a decision. It's not simply a matter of believing the mother's 'false accusations' is it. And if the mother has been the one to take leave from the job and stay home, do the school pick ups.... it is difficult to see how changing that would benefit anyone.

I could give you anecdotal examples of bias against fathers in custody situations, but that's not going to sway you. I'm not a bitter estranged dad myself (I got full custody because my ex-wife didn't want custody) but I have often felt that "the system" has a bias toward her.

 

[fleabitten]

Yep, which is unfortunate because am pretty sure the rad fems are in a significant minority. I don't imagine that most people who want equality have it in for men. Fair bit of fake news I suspect.

Why is it unfortunate? Why does it matter whether people join the feminist bandwagon if they already believe in equality of the sexes? Surely that's enough. It's the definition of feminism, apparently. There wouldn't be a whole bunch of other bullshit that they're also supposed to believe, would there?

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

The domestic violence issue has been hijacked by rad feminists who put all the blame on a toxic masculine culture (also the main contributor to rape culture). The fact that 25% (http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2016-04-06/fact-file-domestic-violence-statistics/7147938) of victims are male is so inconvienient to the argument, that it is never is considered. No one denies its horrible and it should be a focus for the government to reduce the number of women who are victims, but at what stage on that percentage scale do we start seeing advertisements depicting little girls as the next perpetrators of family violence?

In indigenous communities, family violence is 32 times more prevalent than in the rest of australia. The reasons for this is usually put down as; high levels of alcohol misuse and illicit drug use; high levels of instability at an individual, family and community level; poor access to services due to remoteness of location; experiencing violence and abuse during younger years; mental and physical health issues that go untreated; poor housing conditions; low education; low income and high unemployment. (i did an assignment on it 2 months ago haha)

outside of these communities, the focus is toxic masculinity and men treating women like property, due to an ingrained power dynamic where men believe they are dominant. (this was the general consensus over multiple peer reviewed studies in australia).

domestic violence is a scourge on this country and on all the people who are subjected to it. I have seen it multiple times. It will never be properly addressed until the gender narrative isn't the focus, and the actual causes/stressors/contributors are.

EDIT: I don't deny that some men are of the belief that they're dominate and "own" their partners. Just throwing a blanket over the problem as a cause is unhelpful to all the situations where it isn't.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

19 pages and not one single iota of evidence to support the feminism = equality nonsense. No surprise

On the flip side, undeniable and never ending evidence and examples of what feminism truly represents and zero logical arguments to counter any of it.

Besides the cringeworthy insults, shaming tactics and 'because we said so' rhetoric, what exactly have the feminists contributed to this thread ??

Well done to Domus and others for destroying feminism on every level and outing it for what it is.

 

[romeohwho]

Lots of people mistrust the courts in general and the Family Court especially. Many believe they heavily favour women. You're pleading ignorance of the existence of significant numbers of these people?



I could give you anecdotal examples of bias against fathers in custody situations, but that's not going to sway you. I'm not a bitter estranged dad myself (I got full custody because my ex-wife didn't want custody) but I have often felt that "the system" has a bias toward her.

Haven't pleaded ignorance, have acknowledged and agreed that women generally are the person who does/ should get the main caring role( as in intact marriages, as it was before the divorce in most households). I am not sure 'favouring' is correct word here. And yep the anecdotal evidence won't really convince me. Did you look at anything I wrote re the input that goes into a judge's determinations? It's not done in a fem vacuum. Yep, maybe they get it wrong on occasion but mostly it will be correct.
You make genuine efforts to hold discussion flea, and we have done ok over the times we talk but some people have agendas on here. I am honestly not interested in a long treatise on the men's rights groups- take that to its own thread.
Domus,by the way, made a comment re fems driving the FC bias-his evidence, which nobody questioned, was a rambling diatribe from a nutjob. I pointed out the extensive legal, gov't and academic research that eventually drove the amendment changes-that is countering his argument,( of his mindset rather -why do you think he mentioned it came in under Gillard by the way?) but none of you liked that! We all see what we want to see to a degree.

 

[romeohwho]

No doubt. I don't think anyone will argue that the rad fems are a majority. They are clearly the loudest though, and they drive the majority of the feminist narrative. Some of which, i agree with. Some i really really don't.

The women's March this year has an event organisation thingo on Facebook. I had a look at the msg board. Some women were saying ridiculous things like all men should be castrated to stop rapes, all men are rapists and death to all men. Some women pulled them up about it for not being helpful or right, but not many.

Yep and that stuff is disgusting and those women are probably bonkers or have serious anger issues that need addressing. As of course do some of the men who bombard people like clementine ford on social networks and also say pretty foul stuff.

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Yep and that stuff is disgusting and those women are probably bonkers or have serious anger issues that need addressing. As of course do some of the men who bombard people like clementine ford on social networks and also say pretty foul stuff.

I doubt she means all that, or at least I'd hope so. I can't be bothered going through her timeline but I'm willing to bet, some of those tweets illicited an angry response by some men.

I read an article where she said that it was always a "joke" to take the micky out of the other side. But all I see is hypocrisy, where she is begging for more men to abuse her, so she can screen-shot it and write another article where she highlights rape culture.

I in no way condone what some men have said to her, but I also don't condone a lot of what she says, even if it is usually far more articulate.

 

[TimmeT]

View attachment 372081
I doubt she means all that, or at least I'd hope so. I can't be bothered going through her timeline but I'm willing to bet, some of those tweets illicited an angry response by some men.

I read an article where she said that it was always a "joke" to take the micky out of the other side. But all I see is hypocrisy, where she is begging for more men to abuse her, so she can screen-shot it and write another article where she highlights rape culture.

I in no way condone what some men have said to her, but I also don't condone a lot of what she says, even if it is usually far more articulate.

I find it ironic that she waved pom POM's when Latham got sacked for innapropriate comments in journalism yetabuses others in the same way and thinks it's OK. She is an utter hypocrite and brings a lot of the abuse upon herself.

 

[romeohwho]

View attachment 372081
I doubt she means all that, or at least I'd hope so. I can't be bothered going through her timeline but I'm willing to bet, some of those tweets illicited an angry response by some men.

I read an article where she said that it was always a "joke" to take the micky out of the other side. But all I see is hypocrisy, where she is begging for more men to abuse her, so she can screen-shot it and write another article where she highlights rape culture.

I in no way condone what some men have said to her, but I also don't condone a lot of what she says, even if it is usually far more articulate.

Yep agree and sometimes hard to know which is the chicken and which is the egg in this scenario. Suspect she is stirring a bit but she has said some very dense and provocative stuff and yet she sometimes says quite reasonable things. The hard core rad fems do have a dodgy agenda and do say dreadful stuff that is not acceptable. Apart from being so counter productive. Which ultimately means they are stupid.i mean If they seriously believe some of the stuff they say, well-they are beyond help. Although social media seems to encourage bad form that may not appear in real world.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

Yep. But re your survey from the UK -surely gender equality is the definition of feminism, as far as women are concerned. So not really getting that.

lol what don't you understand ?

Women in the USA, England and Australia don't equate feminism with equality..The figures are not even close
Even most women see feminism as a hate group

 

[spinynorman]

I'd always seen this thread but never stepped into it.

Somehow it's even worse than I'd imagined. Cool.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Watch out. We've got an Arts student over here.

 

[tandino]

View attachment 372081
I doubt she means all that, or at least I'd hope so. I can't be bothered going through her timeline but I'm willing to bet, some of those tweets illicited an angry response by some men.

I read an article where she said that it was always a "joke" to take the micky out of the other side. But all I see is hypocrisy, where she is begging for more men to abuse her, so she can screen-shot it and write another article where she highlights rape culture.

I in no way condone what some men have said to her, but I also don't condone a lot of what she says, even if it is usually far more articulate.

Clementine is a click farmer, she isn't a real journalist. She's only useful for the amount of people she brings through the door at Fairfax. Everything else is secondary.

So it doesn't matter if she is a hypocrite, if she calls out behaviour that she herself engages in, if her commentary is insightful or otherwise. The only thing she is useful for is clicks. And for clicks she needs her fans and her haters. As long as they are giving her clicks, it doesn't matter which is which.

 

[katana]

I'm a feminist because there are certain inalienable human rights exclusive to woman and their biological uniqueness that are legislatively infringed upon.

um, sir, are you saying that men and women are biologically different? that's pretty regressive.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

um, sir, are you saying that men and women are biologically different? that's pretty regressive.

not to mention he also ignored the 49 other imaginary genders

 

[domus]

Clementine is a click farmer, she isn't a real journalist. She's only useful for the amount of people she brings through the door at Fairfax. Everything else is secondary.

So it doesn't matter if she is a hypocrite, if she calls out behaviour that she herself engages in, if her commentary is insightful or otherwise. The only thing she is useful for is clicks. And for clicks she needs her fans and her haters. As long as they are giving her clicks, it doesn't matter which is which.

You nailed it. I wrote about her a while back.

https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-corruption/she-aint-honest-nurse-ratched/