Vic Lidia Thorpe: Not the subject for every thread!

[Gethelred]

Seeing as Lidia discussion is cropping up across multiple threads, let's have us a thread for people who want to discuss her contribution to Australian politics.

It should go without saying but seeing as she's a bit of a beacon for controversy - for a variety of reasons - let's just remind ourselves what the board rules are around racism and sexism, shall we?

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Standard board rules apply, but let's make this abundantly clear: let's play nicely in here.

Go nuts.

 

[Gralin]

I'm not going through your post with a fine tooth comb as there are too many straw arguments claims to waste time on, but this is quite ridiculous.

Hanson might not have copped as much flack from the Murdoch side of the leger, but I don't think I've seen an Aussie politician cop more s**t than her in the media (deservedly so IMHO). I'd be interested in seeing the Lydia version of Pauline Pantsdown!

As for Jackie Lambie, she has some strong views that I sometimes disagree with, but how the hell are you bundling her up with the likes of Hanson and Thorpe?!

the likes of Hanson and Thorpe

amazing how many people on here want to act like they're the same person

 

[Gralin]

I think it’s more pick and choose your timing and audience that’s all.

she doesn't get a choice about her audience because she is a politician anything she says while doing her job is up for grabs to be misrepresented by the media

I’ve only experienced racism as the recipient of direct verbal taunts (schoolyard stuff) and sure I’d respond with racially directed ones about lazy dumb white people (I’m south East Asian racial background) and/or get into physical fights. None of this helped.

it doesn't matter what you do or don't do though, the racists are going to come for you if you have a public profile

Thorpe cops the racists and the misogynists because she's a woman

most of the criticism we get of her isn't actually criticism of the current issue, its criticism of her perceived character as a way to deflect from the current issue

doesn't matter what the issue is

its just a way to silence her, to try and force her to give up and stop pushing back against the system

and the media in this country are a weapon in this

and I'm not just talking Murdoch because every single major media organization is part of the problem including the ABC

Thorpe is far from the first Indigenous person to cop this treatment and won't be the last either

far from the first woman and won't be the last either

 

[FIGJAM]

the likes of Hanson and Thorpe

amazing how many people on here want to act like they're the same person

More straw man arguments from the peanut gallery!

 

[Gralin]

More straw man arguments from the peanut gallery!

I was literally responding to you doing this

 

[Crankyhawk]

the likes of Hanson and Thorpe

amazing how many people on here want to act like they're the same person

I read the comment as around both are extreme opinions out of step with mainstream not that they are the same. Just because Thorpe appears to align with your values doesn’t make her mainstream.

 

[Gralin]

I read the comment as around both are extreme opinions out of step with mainstream not that they are the same. Just because Thorpe appears to align with your values doesn’t make her mainstream.

i never said she was mainstream but given Pauline is known primarily as a racist linking her to Thorpe and saying they are the same does tend to come from people who also like to call Thorpe a racist like has also happened in this thread.

like comparing someone fighting against the actual oppression of her people to someone pushing white supremacy is offensive as * and trying as you have done here to remove the elements of racism is just providing cover for racism

 

[FIGJAM]

I read the comment as around both are extreme opinions out of step with mainstream not that they are the same.

Spot on.

 

[Gralin]

Spot on.

see my reply to cranky on that idea

 

[Saint]

I'm not going through your post with a fine tooth comb as there are too many straw arguments claims to waste time on, but this is quite ridiculous.

Hanson might not have copped as much flack from the Murdoch side of the leger, but I don't think I've seen an Aussie politician cop more s**t than her in the media (deservedly so IMHO). I'd be interested in seeing the Lydia version of Pauline Pantsdown!

As for Jackie Lambie, she has some strong views that I sometimes disagree with, but how the hell are you bundling her up with the likes of Hanson and Thorpe?!

Lambie has called for things like banning clothes (burqa), praised Putin for being tough on terrorism and "Has great values", has a son who's been addicted to meth, has had her own drug addiction problems.

I used Hanson and Lambie in particular because Hanson did used to get called-out, now nobody bothers, but Lambie has done and said as stupid things as Thorpe, but doesn't get the vitriol of Thorpe.

Can you imagine how many stories the Herald Sun would run if it came out that Lydia Thorpe had a son addicted to drugs, or used to be an addict herself? They'd blame her for injecting rooms, every possession charge, every drug importation, they'd manage to mention it.

 

[FIGJAM]

like comparing someone fighting against the actual oppression of her people to someone pushing white supremacy is offensive as * and trying as you have done here to remove the elements of racism is just providing cover for racism

Again, you're the one conflating the point into suggesting that Hanson and Thorpe are the "same person", or that their agendas are somehow on a par.

You're derailing a reasonable discussion as a result.

 

[FIGJAM]

Lambie has called for things like banning clothes (burqa), praised Putin for being tough on terrorism and "Has great values", has a son who's been addicted to meth, has had her own drug addiction problems.

That's all you've got?

How the * does that even remotely compare with Thorpe and Hanson's modus operandi?

 

[Saint]

That's all you've got?

How the * does that even remotely compare with Thorpe and Hanson's modus operandi?

You still keep saying Thorpe does all this lying and saying awful stuff.

But never provide any evidence of any of it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

i never said she was mainstream but given Pauline is known primarily as a racist linking her to Thorpe and saying they are the same does tend to come from people who also like to call Thorpe a racist like has also happened in this thread.

like comparing someone fighting against the actual oppression of her people to someone pushing white supremacy is offensive as * and trying as you have done here to remove the elements of racism is just providing cover for racism

Yeah I don’t agree with you but you know that already

 

[Gralin]

Yeah I don’t agree with you but you know that already

which part dont you agree with

 

[Crankyhawk]

which part dont you agree with

Where you say it is offensive to say that they are both outside of mainstream and infer that I am equating Pauline’s “loss of privilege “ type view with thorpes lived experience of racism. I am not doing that. I am only stating both are not mainstream but you don’t see that because you are also outside of mainstream.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Lambie has called for things like banning clothes (burqa), praised Putin for being tough on terrorism and "Has great values", has a son who's been addicted to meth, has had her own drug addiction problems.

I used Hanson and Lambie in particular because Hanson did used to get called-out, now nobody bothers, but Lambie has done and said as stupid things as Thorpe, but doesn't get the vitriol of Thorpe.

Can you imagine how many stories the Herald Sun would run if it came out that Lydia Thorpe had a son addicted to drugs, or used to be an addict herself? They'd blame her for injecting rooms, every possession charge, every drug importation, they'd manage to mention it.

Was praise for Putin pre invasion (not aware of the timing is all). And I think more important to know if she would still support her earlier comments now or would she own them as being no longer valid?

Having a drug addicted child should not count against her, it’s a health issue

 

[Gralin]

Where you say it is offensive to say that they are both outside of mainstream and infer that I am equating Pauline’s “loss of privilege “ type view with thorpes lived experience of racism. I am not doing that. I am only stating both are not mainstream but you don’t see that because you are also outside of mainstream.

But you are.

Because you are removing all nuance from the discussion by saying its just a comment on them both not being mainstream views

and while you haven't used the they're both the same to mean racist, other posters in this thread have

so again if you're trying to remove racism from the conversation when talking about an Indigenous woman and a white supremacist, I gotta ask why?

 

[FIGJAM]

You still keep saying Thorpe does all this lying and saying awful stuff.

But never provide any evidence of any of it.

I don't know if conflating a non-racial issue into a racial one is lying. It's more of a considered stunt.

Look at her response to her nightclub incident where she responded to Albo and others who hoped she'd "get some support" after her tirade at the Brunswick strip club. She managed to make the following statement “Any black man that stands with the ******* white little campaigner like that, youse can all get ****ed, too.” into a situation whereby she literally claimed to be the victim of racism and misogyny. Fair ******* hide if you ask me!

 

[Crankyhawk]

But you are.

Because you are removing all nuance from the discussion by saying its just a comment on them both not being mainstream views

and while you haven't used the they're both the same to mean racist, other posters in this thread have

so again if you're trying to remove racism from the conversation when talking about an Indigenous woman and a white supremacist, I gotta ask why?

Because unlike you I don’t view everything through a racism lens

 

[Gavin Excell]

She's not the first politician to happily use the resources of a party to get elected and then turn around when it suits to go independent in a fck you to electorate. Nor will she be the last.

I don't have much respect for those that do that regardless their political persuasion

 

[Saint]

I don't know if conflating a non-racial issue into a racial one is lying. It's more of a considered stunt.

Look at her response to her nightclub incident where she responded to Albo and others who hoped she'd "get some support" after her tirade at the Brunswick strip club. She managed to make the following statement “Any black man that stands with the ******* white little campaigner like that, youse can all get ed, too.” into a situation whereby she literally claimed to be the victim of racism and misogyny. Fair *** hide if you ask me!

So bad language and telling people to pick racial sides?

I think she's a bit overboard with the racism stuff, but I don't have a lifetime of experience encountering racism. I simply don't know how much she has encountered and how much it affects her view of politics and life.

But I think she says what she believes to be true in nearly every instance.

So when she said she was assaulted, there's really no history worthy of casting doubt on it.

It seems like people doubt her experience of racism and therefore assume she's lying and therefore doubt everything she says.

It's a short-cut logical step that I'm sure a lot of brains make, but it's incorrect.

 

[Gralin]

Because unlike you I don’t view everything through a racism lens

Pauline is primarily a racist

Thorpe is primarily a grass roots anti racism activist

both outside mainstream in their views is erasing what those views are and acting like its just about not being part of the popular majority

 

[Rob R]

So what do people think of Lidia's idea that instead of a voice we have indigenous seats like the NZ model. Indigenous people choose to vote for their seat or the general seats and seats change each election based on percentage of the population who choose to vote for the indigenous seats. So if all indigenous choose to vote for their seats, it would be 4 in the reps and 2 in the senate.

Members can be non indigenous, independent or party aligned but voters must be indigenous and choose to move off the general poll.


On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Better Loosen Up]

she doesn't get a choice about her audience because she is a politician anything she says while doing her job is up for grabs to be misrepresented by the media


it doesn't matter what you do or don't do though, the racists are going to come for you if you have a public profile

Thorpe cops the racists and the misogynists because she's a woman

most of the criticism we get of her isn't actually criticism of the current issue, its criticism of her perceived character as a way to deflect from the current issue

doesn't matter what the issue is

its just a way to silence her, to try and force her to give up and stop pushing back against the system

and the media in this country are a weapon in this

and I'm not just talking Murdoch because every single major media organization is part of the problem including the ABC

Thorpe is far from the first Indigenous person to cop this treatment and won't be the last either

far from the first woman and won't be the last either

Could say the same for Jacinta Price...

 

[Crankyhawk]

Pauline is primarily a racist

Thorpe is primarily a grass roots anti racism activist

both outside mainstream in their views is erasing what those views are and acting like its just about not being part of the popular majority

no, outside mainstream also means

• agitating for treaty ahead of voice = going against what many others in her community want
• using a political party machine to get elected then leaving the party (not a Thorpe specific criticism but its still not behaviour that I condone - actually hers was at least more principled than most who are done for breach of party rules)

Pauline would not see herself as a racist, but someone who is supporting maintenance of existing privilege.